Props to Tony and the zebra's

[Lurker]

No WOW I never used the ref card....maybe other fans.   But then when condemning others but pulling the same stunt yourself....well, it sounds sort of BUSH league if you get my drift.

Who's codeming who?  Have I ever disputed that Lakers do in fact recieve "gifts"?  I just debate that it's star treatment not Laker treatment and not exlusive to the Lakers and their players.  Call it bushleague if you want, I don't care, that's how things are played out on THIS VERY BOARD, all over the net and in real life.

IMO the refs helped the Spurs keep the Lakers off balance.  That's not the only reason, ergo the title, but a reason for the Laker loss.  IMO Tony was the biggest factor followed by another weak performance by GP and Karl.

And I left not because of lack of props but moreso for the type of crap in this thread.  Hypocrisy followed by rationalization.  Then indignation that Laker fans aren't allowed the same leniencies that they condemn others for.  Takes sportsmanship & class to even lower levels.

EXACTLY, can't take what you dish out.  You're not the only one who dishes it out, nor are you a big culprit, but so far you're the only one who couldn't take it when it was dished out towards your team.  Maybe you can now appreciate what it's like being a die-hard Laker fan, dealing with BS and cheapshots at your team is part of the daily routine.

No, my reasons for leaving aren't sinking in.  I don't pull those tactics and with the exception of one or two posters others here don't either.  THAT is why I came back.  Last night when I first read your opening post I figured it was the Cinco de Mayo celebtation talking.  Normally I would expect you to be above such action.

The thing isn't that I can't take what I dish out....it is that I don't dish that crap out and in return I don't want to get it back.  Especially from posters who I believe are above it.  From those who do it regularly I stop reading their posts.  And the condemning....that comes from your many comments to a certain poster who regularly heaps abuse upon your team citing refs as a principal reason.

And as far as the Bush league comment....I think I missed the target.  Try reading it this way:  I thought that it was presidential-like the way you handled this thread.

[WayOutWest]

Try reading it this way:  I thought that it was presidential-like the way you handled this thread.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH.....

That was way below the belt.  I'm done with this thread!  












P.S. You maybe on to something, may have been bitter beer or bitter loss talking.

[JoMal]

That doesn't mean im not wondering where Reality is to justify the Spurs shooting 19 freethrows in the first half compared to the Lakers 6....why is it when the Lakers get that kind of advantage David Stern's office is hit on the speed dial? Then when the Spurs get that advantage its just that they were more aggressive, as oppose to the Lakers who never earn their FTs

For someone to insinuate something they have to actually do that themselves. You are trying to put words into my mouth. I never said that the refs need to even out calls nor did I even say they shouldnt call what I call lazy defense fouls. You are making those parts up.

When someone "insinuates" that one team had an advantage regarding foul calls, that "insinuates" that that 'someone' feels the calls should have been evened out.

And I must be very good, in that you could interpret anything I posted as "insinuating" that you said the refs shouldn't call "lazy defense fouls".  I thought I was being so subtle too.

[JoMal]

LOL JoMal.

You top my list of un-objective fans, I expect nothing less regarding the Lakers coming from you.  

There is really nothing I post that could top the misery of being a fan of a loser organization like the Kings so I'll save my keyboard.

Everybody is going on and on about objectivity and accusing everyone else about not being as unobjective as they are. Let me tell you WOW, back in the old msnbc days, which was my first experience with any Internet chat style medium, the only reason I even got involved with it, which I never intended to do, was because I could not stand how biased many posters were being regarding the Kings. My thoroughly UNobjective attitude made me interject immediately into the threads after reading some of the commentary.

Years later, I have not changed and I do not claim I have. I am NOT objective on some issues, but can easily see both sides of others. The Lakers have completely earned my unobjective bias towards them, so there is no point in my trying to hide my real feelings all of the time.

BTW, how is that dead horse smelling right about now? True loyalty, as they hawl your team off to the glue factory, is hosing down Staples after it's gone so the Clippers won't slip in some goo.

[JoMal]

No, my reasons for leaving aren't sinking in.  I don't pull those tactics and with the exception of one or two posters others here don't either.  THAT is why I came back.  Last night when I first read your opening post I figured it was the Cinco de Mayo celebtation talking.  Normally I would expect you to be above such action.

The thing isn't that I can't take what I dish out....it is that I don't dish that crap out and in return I don't want to get it back.  Especially from posters who I believe are above it.  From those who do it regularly I stop reading their posts.  And the condemning....that comes from your many comments to a certain poster who regularly heaps abuse upon your team citing refs as a principal reason.

And as far as the Bush league comment....I think I missed the target.  Try reading it this way:  I thought that it was presidential-like the way you handled this thread.

Lurker, the handling of 'crap' from the posters supporting teams not your own is the most important part of your job as a representative of your affiliation. The set of rules on how to properly do this has never been published, but attempts on regulating it are always a big part of those nationally organized webpages.

We are sort of self-regulating on dabods board, but we certainly are not going to hear Kings fans and Laker fans join hands and sing Kume Bye Jah around a campfire any time soon. There is no fun in that. The fun is being as hypocritical as possible, then blaming everyone else for their failings in being objective.

This has been one fun thread.  

[Lurker]

This has been one fun thread.

That it has.    


 :ph34r:  

[Guest_Randy]

LOL JoMal.

You top my list of un-objective fans, I expect nothing less regarding the Lakers coming from you. 

There is really nothing I post that could top the misery of being a fan of a loser organization like the Kings so I'll save my keyboard.

Everybody is going on and on about objectivity and accusing everyone else about not being as unobjective as they are. Let me tell you WOW, back in the old msnbc days, which was my first experience with any Internet chat style medium, the only reason I even got involved with it, which I never intended to do, was because I could not stand how biased many posters were being regarding the Kings. My thoroughly UNobjective attitude made me interject immediately into the threads after reading some of the commentary.

Years later, I have not changed and I do not claim I have. I am NOT objective on some issues, but can easily see both sides of others. The Lakers have completely earned my unobjective bias towards them, so there is no point in my trying to hide my real feelings all of the time.

BTW, how is that dead horse smelling right about now? True loyalty, as they hawl your team off to the glue factory, is hosing down Staples after it's gone so the Clippers won't slip in some goo.

JoMal,

I completely understand where you are coming from -- I'm sure that while your team wallowed in the gutter year-after-year after year watching the Lakers bask in the glory of title after title brings the same animosity that have the Spurs fans basking in now -- finally managing to have success against the team they despise after years of watching the Lakers rise above the cream of the league.  

I don't believe that ANY fan of a team can be objective -- I do appreciate those posters who at least TRY to put forth an effort in this area.  

I don't think this series is over -- I do believe PJ is capable of putting together an answer to the Spurs game at this point but the question is "is it too late at this point?"  History certainly doesn't give a great deal of encouragement.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the offseason should the Lakers lose.  This year has certainly been a soap opera for the Lakers and I just see that continuing in the offseason.  

[SPURSX3]

This has been one fun thread.

That it has.    


 :ph34r:

geeeez, wouldnt a "tony kicks total arse!" have been a good post instead of all the "ref" garbage.    

[JoMal]

JoMal,

I completely understand where you are coming from -- I'm sure that while your team wallowed in the gutter year-after-year after year watching the Lakers bask in the glory of title after title brings the same animosity that have the Spurs fans basking in now -- finally managing to have success against the team they despise after years of watching the Lakers rise above the cream of the league. 

I don't believe that ANY fan of a team can be objective -- I do appreciate those posters who at least TRY to put forth an effort in this area. 

I don't think this series is over -- I do believe PJ is capable of putting together an answer to the Spurs game at this point but the question is "is it too late at this point?"  History certainly doesn't give a great deal of encouragement.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the offseason should the Lakers lose.  This year has certainly been a soap opera for the Lakers and I just see that continuing in the offseason.

Randy -

It has never been about winning or losing, or wallowing in the gutter of despair over the long, long years of inadequate basketball being played in Sacramento, but only about twisting the facts to suit my argument. As you well know, facts have a tendency of just getting in the way of sound argument and the quicker they are dispensed with and dismissed, the better.  

Now, "rising above the cream of the League" is quite the accomplishment and frankly I have never heard it put that way before, not being aware that sour cream floated that high.

And I appreciate that you give honor to those posters who at least TRY to put forth an effort in objectivity. I know your implication is that it does not include me, but i feel complete objectivity on these issues is kind of whimpy, as you also know.

Oh, YOU weren't striving for objectivity, were you?

Nonobjectively, I have to admire your opinion that PJ still has a plan for this series other then claiming he has a nose bleed after the next game to avoid the post game interview room. But it will be good for him to learn how to handle losing when the Lakers accumulated so much HOF'er talent last summer and started out this season like all the championship predictions were money in the bank.

Preparing that post-series speech deflecting blame for the collapse onto Kupchek, the officials, the League, and his players has to have the right tone of Zen piety to undercut the self-righteousness tone the damned media will highlight now that the Laker championship newsprint looks like it will be next weeks birdcage lining.

Having never been there, I can't identify with how it must feel to watch the dominant commentary intoned by the Lakers over the Spurs, such as the *asterisk* insults, the city of San Antonio insults, the refs favor the little cow town inferences, the "they ain't good, just lucky" Shaqisms. No, we Sacramento fans can't feel your pain in all of that. Oh the insults! Yeah, that pain I have felt, and it would be nice if the Kings were the ones doing the pain inflicting right now, but sadly it looks like we won't get the chance now, even if we do defeat the Wolves.

Randy, we certainly DO sympathize with you and the rest of the Laker fans as you watch a "sure thing" fade into a Swamp Thing, but there will never be any level of objectivity shown toward a franchise that has demostrated how lack of class really should be defined by setting such a low example of it.

[Guest_Randy]

JoMal,

I completely understand where you are coming from -- I'm sure that while your team wallowed in the gutter year-after-year after year watching the Lakers bask in the glory of title after title brings the same animosity that have the Spurs fans basking in now -- finally managing to have success against the team they despise after years of watching the Lakers rise above the cream of the league. 

I don't believe that ANY fan of a team can be objective -- I do appreciate those posters who at least TRY to put forth an effort in this area. 

I don't think this series is over -- I do believe PJ is capable of putting together an answer to the Spurs game at this point but the question is "is it too late at this point?"  History certainly doesn't give a great deal of encouragement.

It will be interesting to see what happens in the offseason should the Lakers lose.  This year has certainly been a soap opera for the Lakers and I just see that continuing in the offseason.

Randy -

It has never been about winning or losing, or wallowing in the gutter of despair over the long, long years of inadequate basketball being played in Sacramento, but only about twisting the facts to suit my argument. As you well know, facts have a tendency of just getting in the way of sound argument and the quicker they are dispensed with and dismissed, the better.  

Now, "rising above the cream of the League" is quite the accomplishment and frankly I have never heard it put that way before, not being aware that sour cream floated that high.

And I appreciate that you give honor to those posters who at least TRY to put forth an effort in objectivity. I know your implication is that it does not include me, but i feel complete objectivity on these issues is kind of whimpy, as you also know.

Oh, YOU weren't striving for objectivity, were you?

Nonobjectively, I have to admire your opinion that PJ still has a plan for this series other then claiming he has a nose bleed after the next game to avoid the post game interview room. But it will be good for him to learn how to handle losing when the Lakers accumulated so much HOF'er talent last summer and started out this season like all the championship predictions were money in the bank.

Preparing that post-series speech deflecting blame for the collapse onto Kupchek, the officials, the League, and his players has to have the right tone of Zen piety to undercut the self-righteousness tone the damned media will highlight now that the Laker championship newsprint looks like it will be next weeks birdcage lining.

Having never been there, I can't identify with how it must feel to watch the dominant commentary intoned by the Lakers over the Spurs, such as the *asterisk* insults, the city of San Antonio insults, the refs favor the little cow town inferences, the "they ain't good, just lucky" Shaqisms.

Randy, we certainly DO sypathize with you and the rest of the Laker fans as you watch a "sure thing' fade into a Swamp Thing, but there will never be any level of objectivity shown toward a franchise that has demostrated how lack of class really should be defined by setting such a low example of it.

Gee, JoMal, where do I begin -- with admitting that the Kings have exhibited more class than the Lakers?  Yeah, I'd admit that if it were true.  The Kings have a ton of arrogant players and a coach that is so whiny he doesn't even understand class.  But then again, you say the Kings display "confidence" where the Lakers exhibit "arrogance" when it's the same thing they are doing -- oh, that's right, you stomp your feet and say "but he started it."  Yeah, that's class  :lol:  :lol: -- not even for a 6 year old.

As for seeing the Lakers fade from a "sure thing" to a "swamp thing" -- hmm, they are one of the fourth best teams in the league -- so exactly where DOES swamp thing get them?  The Kings beat up on the Lakers in the last match-up of the season -- but do we forget that the Kings did that in response to what the Lakers did to them in the match-up before?  

The Kings have yet to prove anything, have they?  At this point, the Spurs have proven they are the better team -- the Kings have proven they can beat Dallas and the TWolves (at least in one game of a best of seven series).

One thing that is inevitable -- EVERY team has to go through a rebuilding stage -- and the Lakers aren't far from one, IMO.  I would love to see them trade Shaq for whatever they can get and make sure and keep Kobe -- I don't see Malone and GP sticking around another year and we have a lot of veterans (Fish and Fox) who are getting ready to head off into the sunset.  The Lakers will obviously have to rebuild unless they can possibly reload by trading Shaq and/or Kobe (and I would prefer they NOT trade Kobe).  But rebuilding is something that all teams have to do -- it's something the Kings will have to do along with the Spurs (after TD) and every other team in the NBA -- the one thing that has set the Lakers above the rest of the league is it's ability to rebuild itself to once again claim championships decade after decade.  Granted, much of that success is due to Jerry West -- I'm not sure that I put a lot of faith in Mitch or Mr. "Tightwad" Buss.  But I am a true fan who will endure another rebuilding season -- whenever that takes place.

As for my comments about your lack of objectivity -- that wasn't really directed at you -- I've never claimed to be objective and any true fan of a team will never be completely objective -- I do strive (at least at times) to pursue that goal.  I don't think you've hesitated to make your dislike of the Lakers known -- anymore than I dislike CWebb, Miller or Adelmann.  It still doesn't mean that I can't respect their abilities and accomplishments -- I just don't have to like them.

[JoMal]

Gee, JoMal, where do I begin -- with admitting that the Kings have exhibited more class than the Lakers?  Yeah, I'd admit that if it were true.  The Kings have a ton of arrogant players and a coach that is so whiny he doesn't even understand class.  But then again, you say the Kings display "confidence" where the Lakers exhibit "arrogance" when it's the same thing they are doing -- oh, that's right, you stomp your feet and say "but he started it."  Yeah, that's class  :lol:  :lol: -- not even for a 6 year old.

As for seeing the Lakers fade from a "sure thing" to a "swamp thing" -- hmm, they are one of the fourth best teams in the league -- so exactly where DOES swamp thing get them?  The Kings beat up on the Lakers in the last match-up of the season -- but do we forget that the Kings did that in response to what the Lakers did to them in the match-up before? 

The Kings have yet to prove anything, have they?  At this point, the Spurs have proven they are the better team -- the Kings have proven they can beat Dallas and the TWolves (at least in one game of a best of seven series).

One thing that is inevitable -- EVERY team has to go through a rebuilding stage -- and the Lakers aren't far from one, IMO.  I would love to see them trade Shaq for whatever they can get and make sure and keep Kobe -- I don't see Malone and GP sticking around another year and we have a lot of veterans (Fish and Fox) who are getting ready to head off into the sunset.  The Lakers will obviously have to rebuild unless they can possibly reload by trading Shaq and/or Kobe (and I would prefer they NOT trade Kobe).  But rebuilding is something that all teams have to do -- it's something the Kings will have to do along with the Spurs (after TD) and every other team in the NBA -- the one thing that has set the Lakers above the rest of the league is it's ability to rebuild itself to once again claim championships decade after decade.  Granted, much of that success is due to Jerry West -- I'm not sure that I put a lot of faith in Mitch or Mr. "Tightwad" Buss.  But I am a true fan who will endure another rebuilding season -- whenever that takes place.

As for my comments about your lack of objectivity -- that wasn't really directed at you -- I've never claimed to be objective and any true fan of a team will never be completely objective -- I do strive (at least at times) to pursue that goal.  I don't think you've hesitated to make your dislike of the Lakers known -- anymore than I dislike CWebb, Miller or Adelmann.  It still doesn't mean that I can't respect their abilities and accomplishments -- I just don't have to like them.

"But then again, you say the Kings display "confidence" where the Lakers exhibit "arrogance" when it's the same thing they are doing -- oh, that's right, you stomp your feet and say "but he started it."  Yeah, that's class  :lol:  :lol: -- not even for a 6 year old."

Hmmm, we seem to be dwelling on an old issue here. "Confidence", "arrogance" - it is all more like "pain-in-the-arsenence". But a display of Laker 'confidence' well hidden inside the voice of 'arrogance' can equate to being mistaken as a lack of Laker class if references to "queens", "cowbells", and "rednecks", and specific disparaging remarks about Sacramento is the same as references to "they can't beat us at home", and other insulting remarks made by the Kings.

What it amounts to is the Kings have never shown proper respect towards the Lakers and THAT insults them. Which leads to the classy Laker insults of their own, which is, what? Their attempts at winning over our broken hearts and making us suddenly like them?

We admire and respect what the Lakers have accomplished regarding the championships, but as even you have alluded to, the Laker off-court antics besmirch the organization and reduce the desireability for free agents to at least readily join the team as did Malone and Payton last year. Those two are not even trying any longer to hide their displeasure over making that choice now, and other veterans are noticing.

At what point does class translate into aspiration? Part of the decisions free agents need to make comes down to image and working atmosphere. Both Payton and Malone expected to win a ring this year (still might, but that ship looks to have sailed once again without them), and to them class equated to coaching and teammates. The "class" was in the TeamLaker concept that won three straight championships.

Without that ring this year, the Laker organization likely have lost much more then just another banner. They lost that elusive "class" image most teams try to protect even at the expense of their superstars. The Lakers are looking more like insulting, whining, finger-pointers who need to clean house.

But trading Shaq and keeping Kobe? For one, if the Lakers lose, Kobe signs elsewhere. That is a real possibility. If the Lakers go after him and he turns them down anyway, the Laker "Class" image is going to be thoroughly shattered. Payton and Malone leaving after the big hoopla of them signing underpriced contracts is going to be bad enough. But to try to put Shaq on the market after all of that? I know, I said organizations have to put that class image above even their superstars, but just think about what THAT would mean.

Compare the Laker class act to the Kings all you want, but for free agents to even consider the little town of Sacramento as a desirable destination over LA is all the class image we need to laud that one over your team.

[Guest_Randy]

Compare the Laker class act to the Kings all you want, but for free agents to even consider the little town of Sacramento as a desirable destination over LA is all the class image we need to laud that one over your team.

Umm, hate to tell you this but class has NOTHING to do with FA signings in SacTown -- it has EVERYTHING to do with players who thought SacTown was going to start paying people the kind of money that Portland and Dallas.  Since the Maloofs had their "blue light special" last summer and dumped players, it's pretty obvious that the Kings aren't going to get FA's to line up at their door.  Oh, unless you were calling Peeler a top FA -- which I would definately appreciate because I could use a good laugh right about now.

[westkoast]

That doesn't mean im not wondering where Reality is to justify the Spurs shooting 19 freethrows in the first half compared to the Lakers 6....why is it when the Lakers get that kind of advantage David Stern's office is hit on the speed dial? Then when the Spurs get that advantage its just that they were more aggressive, as oppose to the Lakers who never earn their FTs

For someone to insinuate something they have to actually do that themselves. You are trying to put words into my mouth. I never said that the refs need to even out calls nor did I even say they shouldnt call what I call lazy defense fouls. You are making those parts up.

When someone "insinuates" that one team had an advantage regarding foul calls, that "insinuates" that that 'someone' feels the calls should have been evened out.

And I must be very good, in that you could interpret anything I posted as "insinuating" that you said the refs shouldn't call "lazy defense fouls".  I thought I was being so subtle too.

I didnt insinuate that.  You assumed.  Big difference.  Like I said for someone to insinuate something they have to do that themselves.  Right now you are trying to twist it.  Do you actually read posts or do you just see one line and hurry and hit quote to reply?  If you read what I replied to and what I said then you wouldn't have got the idea about that.  

I love how you quoted me and left out (real fans dont answer) because that question was obvious directed to Reality and Reality only.  I purposely did not want BBF, Spursx3, or 101 to reply for obvious reason.  You know why I brought it up, you are intelligent.  I thought it is painfully obvious that Reality tries to pretend hes not bias.  Thats why I brought that up, hate to explain myself but I guess in your case I should for now on, each and every time.....the reason was because I wanted to see him dance around.  Never once did I say the Spurs didn't earn their free throws.  I also did not say that the refs needed to even out the calls.  That was all you.  Did I not post that the reason the Lakers lost was because of the Spurs hustle plays and penetration?  The same things that got the Spurs to the line.  I believe I did.  Long before you jumped in.  Like I said if you read my posts you would have known that.  What is funny is that when I say I didn't like the refs last night its a big deal, im a crybaby, you assume I am blaming the loss on the refs and so are the rest of the Laker fans on the board.  If you say you dont like the refs on a certain night its A-ok for you to express that.  No flack.  You aren't arrogant.  None of that.

Everytime the Lakers have more FTs then the other team its because the league wants them to win in Reality's eyes.  Last night the Spurs had more freethrows so I was wondering if that also meant the league wanted the Spurs to win .  Do I need to do [bait] [/bait], [sarcasm] [/sarcasm], JKs, and :rolleyes: so some of you posters huffing on methane comming off cow dung can keep up?  Believe me I understand why you are so happy the Lakers are loosing.....I will be feeling the same way when the Kings dont make it out of the west.  Again, for the 5th year in a row.

[JoMal]

I thought I made it clear to you two that I ignore any facts that differ from my bias and do selective quoting to support my point of view. Twisting facts, making blanket statements, lecturing on class - - these are my strengths!!!.

And all I was really building up to was to show how sorry I feel for you Laker fans by honoring you all with recognizable one-sided commentary  

Can't we all just ignore the facts and twist around what everybody else says to suit the agendas we have for our own teams?  

[WayOutWest]

Can't we all just ignore the facts and twist around what everybody else says to suit the agendas we have for our own teams?

Only if your last name is Maloof or Webber.