Richard Jefferson to the spurs

[Joe Vancil]

Would it be too bold of me to say that Manu doesn't need to come back to the exact same level he was at the last time they won the championship with Jefferson on the squad now?  If Manu is slowed by the injury it might not matter quite as much because Jefferson is more than capable of providing that 3rd scorer on nights Manu can't do it.

Ginobilli's value isn't in being the third scorer (or even second).  It's in the fact that he is a herky-jerky, reliable free-throw shooting, foul-drawing, good ball-handling, driving scorer who can also play defense who plays well at the close of games - kind of player.  He's the person you put the ball in the hands of at the end of a game and instinctively know that something good is going to happen. 

Jefferson's a stud, but his addition still leaves the team needing Ginobilli at closing time.

[Reality]

It's been about 40 games.
You Jefferson = Gasol jokesters want to update?

Jefferson has been mostly a bust.  Has had some okay games, a few good ones, and a lot of weak ones.
Average at best D, weak rebounding, little O.
Lets hope his game winner vs Okc can jumpstart him.

[westkoast]

Would it be too bold of me to say that Manu doesn't need to come back to the exact same level he was at the last time they won the championship with Jefferson on the squad now?  If Manu is slowed by the injury it might not matter quite as much because Jefferson is more than capable of providing that 3rd scorer on nights Manu can't do it.

Ginobilli's value isn't in being the third scorer (or even second).  It's in the fact that he is a herky-jerky, reliable free-throw shooting, foul-drawing, good ball-handling, driving scorer who can also play defense who plays well at the close of games - kind of player.  He's the person you put the ball in the hands of at the end of a game and instinctively know that something good is going to happen. 

Jefferson's a stud, but his addition still leaves the team needing Ginobilli at closing time.

I disagree.  Having a consistent 3rd scorer on a team that does not stock up on offensive weapons is very valuable.  The Spurs need points anywhere they can get em.  I think in general having 3 solid scoring options is important for any team chasing a title.  If you look at the Spurs past championship teams and also the Boston Celtics you see that since the bulk of the scoring is shared between at least 3 guys they have more energy and play stronger defense.  Teams that don't have 3 legit scoring options seem like their most talented players get gassed and slow down on the defensive end to keep up with the scoring (Cavs, Lakers, Magic last two seasons)

While you are right about all the things you listed he is more often asked to provide scoring off the bench than he is needing to win the game.  I think they've actually got away from Manu at the end of the game in the last two seasons  now  that Tony Parker has a better outside shot (Lurker/x3 correct me if I am wrong).  I really don't remember him dominating the ball against the local teams or when they are on tnt/espn.

I did not mean to 'diss' Manu by saying his only value is being a scoring option.  He does a lot of things right.  His defense is underrated.  Very good player.  I just feel that the Spurs are not an offensive juggernaut (or do they want to be) so having another player who can pick up scoring slack if Manu is injured or not shooting well is very beneficial.

[Reality]

weaksause with another noodle. ^^ 

Well Joe if you're not going to answer 'sauses' insincere request, are you going to update your forecast?

Unbelievable deal for San Antonio.  I'm very high on Jefferson, and think Milwaukee were IDIOTS to get rid of him, and especially not getting back anything more than they did.

It's not quite Gasol-level, but it's close.

[Joe Vancil]

Don't think I need to update anything here, Reality.

The Jefferson deal is an incredible deal for San An.  My argument is still that Parker is over-used, Ginobilli is under-used, and Jefferson is a great pick-up, especially on a team that needed additional rebounding.  Give Jefferson more minutes and more looks, and you'll get more production.  Keep cutting his touches, and you'll get less.

I put this one on the coaching, which, if you'll recall, I've never been high on.

[westkoast]

It has been half a season.  I think you might be speaking a bit premature Reality.  We don't want to see you bragging about SuperJefferson when he comes up big in the playoffs or later in the season when they are jockying for position.

[Reality]

Don't think I need to update anything here, Reality.

The Jefferson deal is an incredible deal for San An.  My argument is still that Parker is over-used, Ginobilli is under-used, and Jefferson is a great pick-up, especially on a team that needed additional rebounding.  Give Jefferson more minutes and more looks, and you'll get more production.  Keep cutting his touches, and you'll get less.

I put this one on the coaching, which, if you'll recall, I've never been high on.

More minutes??  What are you talking about.  He's gotten 35-40 minutes in most games and even with the occasional 20 minute game he still averages 32 mpg.
3rd most minutes on the team, just a fraction behind Duncan and Parker.

Rebounds?    Jefferson has been beyond pathetic.
Touches?  We can agree that Pops pathetic offense is par for the course.  Still, nothing is stopping Jefferson from driving the ball to the rack more, unless it's via Popovichs orders to imitate Mike Finley which seems very likely given the wussified stand n chuck team the Spurs have become under Popped 2006 - present.  Nice detour in 2007.

westkoast

It has been half a season.  I think you might be speaking a bit premature Reality.  We don't want to see you bragging about SuperJefferson when he comes up big in the playoffs or later in the season when they are jockying for position.

See other thread where lurkers PopApologist Excuse #1 was completely debunked. 
Steven Jackson, Brent Barrdog, Man From Nazr, others titled in year 1 with the Spurs.  The "Pops *system* takes so much time to learn" is fertilizer.
Yes Jefferson still has time to turn it around.  Nothing points to him doing so, and his slackerness on a crunchtime play late vs Portland personifies his lack of effort.  GNob missed a trey and instead of either a) crashing the boards for the O rebound or bee. getting back on D, Jefferson did neither.  Long rebound, long pass to Jeffersons man, layup and key play in heartbreaking blown lead loss to Portland.

Lets bookmark this indeed. 

[Joe Vancil]

More minutes??  What are you talking about.  He's gotten 35-40 minutes in most games and even with the occasional 20 minute game he still averages 32 mpg.
3rd most minutes on the team, just a fraction behind Duncan and Parker.

Rebounds?    Jefferson has been beyond pathetic.
Touches?  We can agree that Pops pathetic offense is par for the course.  Still, nothing is stopping Jefferson from driving the ball to the rack more, unless it's via Popovichs orders to imitate Mike Finley which seems very likely given the wussified stand n chuck team the Spurs have become under Popped 2006 - present.  Nice detour in 2007.

Well, considering Jefferson's minutes this year are the lowest they've been since his ROOKIE YEAR, 8 years ago, *YES*, I'd say more minutes would be in order.

And Jefferson is taking FEWER shots per minute than he has since his first year as a full-time starter, and fewer 3-pointers per minute than last year.

[Reality]

Besides seeing him with my own eyes, looking at the stats in the many Spurs games Jefferson has gotten his career ave of 35 mpg + it has not improved his production at all.

Rebounds? 
For qualifying forwards (and if anyone can tell us where NBA.com states what is "qualifying" but I'm assuming it's something like 25 min per game)....
Amoung 76 qualifying forwards, Dick Jeffersons 5.6 boards per 48 is
73rd of 76

Amoung all forwards irregardless of minutes played, Dick is
154th of 169

http://www.nba.com/statistics/player...ager.offset=50

[Reality]

More minutes??  What are you talking about.  He's gotten 35-40 minutes in most games and even with the occasional 20 minute game he still averages 32 mpg.
3rd most minutes on the team, just a fraction behind Duncan and Parker.

Rebounds?    Jefferson has been beyond pathetic.
Touches?  We can agree that Pops pathetic offense is par for the course.  Still, nothing is stopping Jefferson from driving the ball to the rack more, unless it's via Popovichs orders to imitate Mike Finley which seems very likely given the wussified stand n chuck team the Spurs have become under Popped 2006 - present.  Nice detour in 2007.

Well, considering Jefferson's minutes this year are the lowest they've been since his ROOKIE YEAR, 8 years ago, *YES*, I'd say more minutes would be in order.

And Jefferson is taking FEWER shots per minute than he has since his first year as a full-time starter, and fewer 3-pointers per minute than last year.

Repeat, Jefferson is getting 32 minutes per game.
Do you really think getting 3 more minutes per game is going to make a difference? 

Update Jefferson was pathetic (again) vs the Lakers last night.
Oh and lurker, Mike Finley was guarding Odom last night.   Yeah, Mike Finley your SG.

[westkoast]

More minutes??  What are you talking about.  He's gotten 35-40 minutes in most games and even with the occasional 20 minute game he still averages 32 mpg.
3rd most minutes on the team, just a fraction behind Duncan and Parker.

Rebounds?    Jefferson has been beyond pathetic.
Touches?  We can agree that Pops pathetic offense is par for the course.  Still, nothing is stopping Jefferson from driving the ball to the rack more, unless it's via Popovichs orders to imitate Mike Finley which seems very likely given the wussified stand n chuck team the Spurs have become under Popped 2006 - present.  Nice detour in 2007.

Well, considering Jefferson's minutes this year are the lowest they've been since his ROOKIE YEAR, 8 years ago, *YES*, I'd say more minutes would be in order.

And Jefferson is taking FEWER shots per minute than he has since his first year as a full-time starter, and fewer 3-pointers per minute than last year.

Repeat, Jefferson is getting 32 minutes per game.
Do you really think getting 3 more minutes per game is going to make a difference? 

Update Jefferson was pathetic (again) vs the Lakers last night.
Oh and lurker, Mike Finley was guarding Odom last night.   Yeah, Mike Finley your SG.

Why was that Reality?  Because the guys you thought could guard Odom, like Blair and Duncan, were unable to do so lol  So much for your Bosh/Blair/Duncan trifecta in the front court. 

[Lurker]

Oh and lurker, Mike Finley was guarding Odom last night.   Yeah, Mike Finley your SG.

Yes, those 15 minutes of Finley playing had a big impact on Odom's 37 minutes.   

And when Finley guarded Odom, was it due to a switch?  Was it picking up a player in transition?  Was it a matchup zone?

Was Finley playing the SF position?  Was it during small ball when Pop puts 3 swingmen on the court with a center and pg?  What position was Odom playing?

Or was it just a one time opportunity for you to think that you actually knew something and could comment semi-intelligently?

I haven't watched the game as I taped it last night - 9:30 start time is rough when you get up at 5 AM.

[Reality]

^^ Pop had Blair on the court with 4 others under 6'7" including Finley.

Try having an ounce of intelligence when you attempt -and fail- to diss me.
This in addition to the numerous times Pop has had Finley play the SF or even PF the last 3 years.
Boxscore Betty.

[Lurker]

^^ Pop had Blair on the court with 4 others under 6'7" including Finley.

Try having an ounce of intelligence when you attempt -and fail- to diss me.
This in addition to the numerous times Pop has had Finley play the SF or even PF the last 3 years.
Boxscore Betty.

Well, RealGenius, did you answer anything I asked?

And exactly how many of Finley's 15 minutes were played in the small ball lineup?

How many of Finley's 15 minutes coincided with minutes Odom was on the floor?

[Reality]

^^ Pop had Blair on the court with 4 others under 6'7" including Finley.

Try having an ounce of intelligence when you attempt -and fail- to diss me.
This in addition to the numerous times Pop has had Finley play the SF or even PF the last 3 years.
Boxscore Betty.

Well, RealGenius, did you answer anything I asked?

And exactly how many of Finley's 15 minutes were played in the small ball lineup?

How many of Finley's 15 minutes coincided with minutes Odom was on the floor?

You're trying to justify Finleys guarding Odom because Popped had a bunch of smalls on the floor, thus in Pop (and your?) strategy no one else available?
Brilliant! 

Riddle me why Pop has had Finley guarding the other teams SF or even PF the last 3 years multiple times.  Playoffs included.  Playoff failures in 06 08 and 09.