So

[DuckyNinja]

This seems to be a badly constructed team.  You have two guys who need to run to be successful (Williams and Iguodala), four guys who are most useful in a standstill offense (Miller, Brand, Rush, and Marshall), two guys who are just painfully stupid (Dalembert and Green), a few guys who just have no offense (Ratliff, Evans, Ivey, and Speights (for now)), and Thaddeus Young, who is just really really good.  The problem is that Miller has seemingly forgotten how to play PG AND lost his ability to shoot AND lost another step on defense.  I almost think the best starting lineup on this team is Williams-Ivey-Iggy-Thad-Brand.  Just go straight smallball.  This team ain't stopping anybody on offense, may as well play to get TOs and run.  Unless Miller shows signs of life in the next few games, you almost HAVE to bench him for Williams.  He's been pathetic this year.  Hasn't shot well while shooting way too much, not getting the ball to guys on time or in good position, and every PG in the league can blow right by him.

[bebopdeluxe]

I think that Elton Brand fits on just about any team.  The problem is that the offense - as it is currently being run - looks absolutely brutal right now.

Part of that is personnel.  Part of that is coaching.

Double-teams are getting on Brand WAY too fast...before he even has a chance to pass it back out.  Part of that is spacing on the floor, which should be correctable with coaching.  Part of it is the fact that other teams have ZERO respect for our other perimeter players' ability to smoke them if they double, and that is personnel.

I never thought that Miller was tradable before the season started...I would guess that other GM's saw what we all saw in the Detroit series, and unless this is just a slow start, Miller's sole value now is as an expiring...and I hope that we realize that value before the deadline.  I would also play Speights as much as possible...he seems to have serious upside, and if it means cutting back Evans and Sammy's time, so be it.

I hope that this start is just a case of a team spending too much time reading their press clippings, and at some point soon they collectively get hit with a 2x4 across the forehead and WAKE THE FUCK UP.  But if they come back from that long holiday road trip below .500, then I think we trade Miller (hopefully for Hinrich or another PG option), and let Speights, Thad and Iggy spend the rest of the season developing their toolboxes for '09-10.

[Derek Bodner]

BTW, Thad is now officially the leading scorer on the team.

[tk76]

Young always surprises me- but i never expected to see him adapt to be a scoring wing so quickly- especially since the rest of the team is falling apart.  I though the other 4 starters would play great and take the pressure off of Young to have to do too much.  Now it seems like the opposite is the case.

I'm sure the team will work out enough of the kinks over the coming weeks to be at least a good team.  Unfortunately, some of the warts that are showing likely point to some deeper player computability issues that will keep this team from being great- even with Thad rapidly emerging as the next TMac at SF over the next two years.

There was no way of knowing exactly how these player would fit on both ends without sending them out there.  Hopefully there still is some flexibility with Millers expiring to get the team to where it needs to be.  Also I hpe that Williams shows some improvement in his floor game- which has been as bad as Miller's so far.

[DuckyNinja]

Quite simply, Thaddeus Young needs to carry this team.  He needs to put it on his back and carry it.  And as amazingly awesome as he is, I'm not sure he's mentally ready for carrying a team through an NBA schedule.

It doesn't help that the coaching staff refuses to call plays for him.  He's your leading scorer for a reason, coaching staff.  Namely, he can shoot AND he can create his own shot.  Get him the goddamned ball more.

[tk76]

What about running a post offense through Thad, Iguodala or Miller (whomever has the best match-up.)  Might sound backwards- but those guys can pass out of the post and it might actually open up some easy 15 foot jumpers for Brand.  Almost like how we use CWebb while he was here.

Of course mentioning CWebb in anything but a derisive comment reeks of desperation.

[DuckyNinja]

What about running a post offense through Thad, Iguodala or Miller (whomever has the best match-up.)  Might sound backwards- but those guys can pass out of the post and it might actually open up some easy 15 foot jumpers for Brand.  Almost like how we use CWebb while he was here.

Of course mentioning CWebb in anything but a derisive comment reeks of desperation.

Run the offense through Thad.  I mean, shouldn't it go through your best offensive player?  He's got post moves (that lefty hook is pretty), he's got range to the 3 point line, he can drive to the hoop, everything.

Also, this might sound wrong, but how about we just leave Dalembert on our side of the court at all times and play 4v5 on offense.  We'd probably do better!  Okay, not really.

[Skates]

What about running a post offense through Thad, Iguodala or Miller (whomever has the best match-up.)  Might sound backwards- but those guys can pass out of the post and it might actually open up some easy 15 foot jumpers for Brand.  Almost like how we use CWebb while he was here.

Of course mentioning CWebb in anything but a derisive comment reeks of desperation.

Tthis is not desperation at all.  C-Webb couldn't do anything but shoot jump-shots.  Brand is still a very good player on both ends of the floor unlike our version of C-Webb, anything we can do to free him up for a fairly automatic 15 footer or a hard drive to the basket sounds good to me.  A double high post with Speights and Brand on opposite side of the foul line extended and rotating into the low post themselves or Iggy, Miller or Thad would be fine by me.  Exploiting matchups and creating space and passing lanes sounds like good offense to me.  Thad is not more than an adequate passer so I prefer him more as a finisher than as a facilitator, Iggy is the opposite in the half-court.

[tk76-]

So what is the heart of the issue?

-Temporary chemistry issues- the team just needs to gel.  ("The fundamentals of this economy our strong... this is just a temporary market correction.")

-Permanent chemistry issues- The lack of shooting doesn't work.  they need to make a line-up move (trade Miller?)  (They need a market correction and a stimulus package, and then will be back on track)

-Broken system- the core was built around running with an athlete at PF.  We lack the shooters for spacing, and guys like Iguodala just can't play well on a more conventional half court team.  (We shouldn't have committed ourselves to 4 more years of Bush in 2004- or in this case 5 years of 160M to Iguodala and Brand)

[Derek Bodner]

Well, 2 and 3 kinda overlap, don't they?  You mention shooters in both.

I don't agree with 3 (that Brand can't be the PF for a running team).  I think it's mainly 1 and 2.

[jemagee]

With the way miller has looked so far this season what kind of trade package do people think is realistic

and oh yeah - who starts at point guard?

[DuckyNinja]

So what is the heart of the issue?

-Temporary chemistry issues- the team just needs to gel.  ("The fundamentals of this economy our strong... this is just a temporary market correction.")

-Permanent chemistry issues- The lack of shooting doesn't work.  they need to make a line-up move (trade Miller?)  (They need a market correction and a stimulus package, and then will be back on track)

-Broken system- the core was built around running with an athlete at PF.  We lack the shooters for spacing, and guys like Iguodala just can't play well on a more conventional half court team.  (We shouldn't have committed ourselves to 4 more years of Bush in 2004- or in this case 5 years of 160M to Iguodala and Brand)

I'm gonna go with none of the above.  The heart of the issue is we have a PG who is playing at a level well below any acceptable standard.  When you're playing with a guy who is killing you on both offense and defense, he's usually the problem.

[Skates]

Teams with worse point guards than Miller:

Houston
Memphis  - Coley looks bad, they have decided crittenton is a SG and Lowry is a backup only.
NY Knicks
Minnesota
Golden State while Ellis is out

Sammy and Miller for Curry and Crawford?  Crawford is a combo guard who can shoot from the outside, Curry's contract is up in two years and he is already used to being a fourth big man on a bad team.

Miller for Jaric and Lowry?  Jaric is a decent shooter off the bench, would complement Lou well and comes with many Adrianna Lima courtside sightings.  Lowry as a starter is not a great shooter yet, but he is quick, tough and can stop dribble penetration.

Houston has the biggest need, but unless they want to move Battier there is no real salary match.

Would Sacto look to get rid of Brad "druggie" Miller for Sam or our Miller?

Does Chicago need a defensive presence at center that does not need to shoot, Sammy plus a first for Hinrich, move Miller as an expiring contract?

Wait for a good team to have a major injury at PG or C?

[jemagee]

Sammy and Miller for Curry and Crawford?  Crawford is a combo guard who can shoot from the outside, Curry's contract is up in two years and he is already used to being a fourth big man on a bad team.

I think the sixers are actually the losers in that deal - which makes me sad to say that about a traade involving sam.

I'd love to get a point guard from the griz - but lowry ain't it

The problem is that if you don't get a point guard type player back - this is a lost season for the sixers - even if they try the radical move of converting #4 - that takes time

[Derek Bodner]

I think Chicago's the best possibility if we do end up needing a trade.  I'm not sure if they'd have a need for Dalembert, as he may be a little redundant with Thomas/Noah, but I could definitely see them being interested in Moving Hinrich's contract.