Kobe handles the pretendor

[Ted]

This thread is  :crazy: .

[JoMal]

Okay, westkoast, that was a fair assessment. One that I can deal with a bit better then before.

Maybe the team gets to be a bit unwatchable when Kobe is on the court, then. There is just too much deference to Bryant, and his apparent demanding of the ball on every possession must take its toll.

I believe it was a first half play on which Brown scored. It seemed that Kobe was getting annoyed with his teammates much more in the second quarter. That reporter, Beacham, said he was mostly upset with Odom.

Yes, I do understand your point about the late three that Odom made on a pass from Kobe. No questionable body language; apparent satisfaction with the made field goal. Everything you said. It happened in a game that I was actually watching and not inferred from some box score. I will rerun the tape of it over and over until I wear it out. It will soon be available from ESPN classics.

When I kill myself one day, I will ask that a copy of the tape be buried with me, as a reminder of how, once, long, long ago, in a place called Camelot, there was a knight named Kobe who actually passed the ball to an open teammate who converted the basket.

In overtime, Kobe clearly was trying to bring his team back single-handedly. Of course, he was not blessed with much help after Odom (and I suppose Mihm to a degree) fouled out. Thomas made it clear he was going after Walton, and later this was confirmed by Adelman to be the plan. It put the Kobe's in a terrible spot, and I thought Garcia's defense was pretty good, forcing him to try off-balanced three-pointers from way beyond the arc.

The Miller screen was not different from many others he has set, and so far I have not seen the refs call it a moving screen or illegal. His feet were set, for one, though his upper body appeared to turn toward Parker. He has laid out several guards this year, just like Parker, where they were flattened to the floor, and in all cases, the announcers just called them excellent picks, and questioned why a teammate of the flattened guard did not warn him of Miller's close proximity.

The problem with the Kobe head hugs of his teammates is that they look staged for the media. He is berating them in the first half and then head hugging them in the second, both times after they did something Kobe apparently thought was unwise. Then he gets miffed, as you say, about Odom taking the last second regulation shot. It just looks too weird. And phony.

[guest-koast]

Yes, I do understand your point about the late three that Odom made on a pass from Kobe. No questionable body language; apparent satisfaction with the made field goal. Everything you said. It happened in a game that I was actually watching and not inferred from some box score. I will rerun the tape of it over and over until I wear it out. It will soon be available from ESPN classics.

When I kill myself one day, I will ask that a copy of the tape be buried with me, as a reminder of how, once, long, long ago, in a place called Camelot, there was a knight named Kobe who actually passed the ball to an open teammate who converted the basket.

I really laughed out loud at this part.  Funny as hell.  Vintage JoMaL-esqe sarcastic jabs  :up:

Let me ask you this though, if say Peja or Mike Bibby went 7 for 9 in the first quarter and got to the line 6 times and made 6 FTs would you shun them for asking for the ball on the offensive end?  I always thought you keep going to the hot player until the completely cool off.  7 for 9 is pretty damn ON FIRE.

 

[JoMal]

Yes, I do understand your point about the late three that Odom made on a pass from Kobe. No questionable body language; apparent satisfaction with the made field goal. Everything you said. It happened in a game that I was actually watching and not inferred from some box score. I will rerun the tape of it over and over until I wear it out. It will soon be available from ESPN classics.

When I kill myself one day, I will ask that a copy of the tape be buried with me, as a reminder of how, once, long, long ago, in a place called Camelot, there was a knight named Kobe who actually passed the ball to an open teammate who converted the basket.

I really laughed out loud at this part.  Funny as hell.  Vintage JoMaL-esqe sarcastic jabs  :up:

Let me ask you this though, if say Peja or Mike Bibby went 7 for 9 in the first quarter and got to the line 6 times and made 6 FTs would you shun them for asking for the ball on the offensive end?  I always thought you keep going to the hot player until the completely cool off.  7 for 9 is pretty damn ON FIRE.

You would think that, but for some reason, with Adelman and the Princeton offense, quite often the guy who is hot in the first quarter gets shunned in the second. Peja in particular can light it up in the first half of games, then you can forget he is out there in the second.


Much of that has to do with the current King's squad and how Adelman uses them. Can't compare it LA, where every offensive set has something to do with Bryant.
   

[JoMal]

This thread is  :crazy: .

Well, thanks for playing, Ted. I think.

[Reality]

westkoast, a couple of things:

2.  Yes, Kobe didn't take the final shot at the end of the fourth, but he looked MIGHTY pissed about it.

It started off with you:  "-- Kobe not only went 3 for 4 down the stretch in the 4th but OMG he passed to Odom for what could have been the game deciding 3 pointer. So much for never making the right decisions (Kwame was also given a nice pass with a little bit of time left but could not convert that too could have been the game deciding basket) In OT he took a few too many shots on his own once the went down by 8-9 but he was still passing the ball inside the triangle and into the post."

To which Wolverine put  "2.  Yes, Kobe didn't take the final shot at the end of the fourth, but he looked MIGHTY pissed about it.  See the box?

You responded by:  " 2. That was Kobe's own fault why he didn't get to take the shot. I think if he watched the replay of the game he would realize he was the one who did not get open quick enough. He stayed on the wing about a second too long. If Odom was to cough the ball up then it would have been a worse look than what Odom had."

That one would surmise you were talking about the same shot as Wolverine... :rolleyes:

 

[guest-koast]

westkoast, a couple of things:

2.  Yes, Kobe didn't take the final shot at the end of the fourth, but he looked MIGHTY pissed about it.

It started off with you:  "-- Kobe not only went 3 for 4 down the stretch in the 4th but OMG he passed to Odom for what could have been the game deciding 3 pointer. So much for never making the right decisions (Kwame was also given a nice pass with a little bit of time left but could not convert that too could have been the game deciding basket) In OT he took a few too many shots on his own once the went down by 8-9 but he was still passing the ball inside the triangle and into the post."

To which Wolverine put  "2.  Yes, Kobe didn't take the final shot at the end of the fourth, but he looked MIGHTY pissed about it.  See the box?

You responded by:  " 2. That was Kobe's own fault why he didn't get to take the shot. I think if he watched the replay of the game he would realize he was the one who did not get open quick enough. He stayed on the wing about a second too long. If Odom was to cough the ball up then it would have been a worse look than what Odom had."

That one would surmise you were talking about the same shot as Wolverine... :rolleyes:

You know what they say Reality when you assume right?  I dont think I need to tell you that one.  Not to throw a wrench in your attempt but assits only come from made shots and you do not recieve an assist for inbounding the ball to the shooter.

JoMaL, the princeton offense looked good last night.  Maybe the Lakers would have a much easier time all around if they could cut half as good as the Kings squad was in the first half.  Odom is a great passer so I don't see why we dont see more of that.  Apparently this team enjoys making the game harder than it is.  As you saw last night with 35 seconds left.

[Reality]

See, I was watching the game and I thought it was Kobe who inbounded the ball. If not him, who did?

Jomal,

Why not go ahead and watch it.  You can even get a replay of a bit of the Kobe pouting he was not The Chosen One.  Of course I and ESPN are making this up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260119023

[Reality]

The Lakers leading 104-101 with under 10 seconds and defending the Kings...

Why on Earth they bothered defending the 2.  A King drives from the arc towoard the lane and a couple Lakers including Kwame attempt to guard him.  Leaving Kwame wayy out of position to guard B-Rad Miller for the 3 pter tie. :crazy:  

[JoMal]

westkoast, a couple of things:

2.  Yes, Kobe didn't take the final shot at the end of the fourth, but he looked MIGHTY pissed about it.

It started off with you:  "-- Kobe not only went 3 for 4 down the stretch in the 4th but OMG he passed to Odom for what could have been the game deciding 3 pointer. So much for never making the right decisions (Kwame was also given a nice pass with a little bit of time left but could not convert that too could have been the game deciding basket) In OT he took a few too many shots on his own once the went down by 8-9 but he was still passing the ball inside the triangle and into the post."

To which Wolverine put  "2.  Yes, Kobe didn't take the final shot at the end of the fourth, but he looked MIGHTY pissed about it.  See the box?

You responded by:  " 2. That was Kobe's own fault why he didn't get to take the shot. I think if he watched the replay of the game he would realize he was the one who did not get open quick enough. He stayed on the wing about a second too long. If Odom was to cough the ball up then it would have been a worse look than what Odom had."

That one would surmise you were talking about the same shot as Wolverine... :rolleyes:

You know what they say Reality when you assume right?  I dont think I need to tell you that one.  Not to throw a wrench in your attempt but assits only come from made shots and you do not recieve an assist for inbounding the ball to the shooter.

JoMaL, the princeton offense looked good last night.  Maybe the Lakers would have a much easier time all around if they could cut half as good as the Kings squad was in the first half.  Odom is a great passer so I don't see why we dont see more of that.  Apparently this team enjoys making the game harder than it is.  As you saw last night with 35 seconds left.

I read where Tex Winter thinks Odom is coming around to working with the triangle, and that he should be scoring consistently 15 to 20 points a night with 10 to 15 rebounds. His problem, according to Tex, is that Lamar hasn't learned to play a team concept within the triangle, and play off the ball.

He also had some criticism of Kobe:

"Most of these guys have to rely pretty much on team play and Kobe doesn't," Winter said. "He doesn't have to rely on the offense, even though we'd like for him to rely on it a little more than he does. I guess that's the best way to put it. He could give the ball up more, hit the first open man a little bit more, play off the ball a little more."
 

[Laker Fan]

This is a strange thread, and I will not add to this strangness by participating in the schoolyard shouting match going on.

I will, however comment on last nights game. Kobe's performance last night, from an individual standpoint, was brilliant. From a team standpoint, it was a disaster. I will address specifically the last 4.3 seconds in regulation and the utterly boneheaded play by Odom that preceeded it. I watched that last play in regulation from every angle available, Kobe SHOULD have taken that last shot, he had broken free and was in a position to totally square up and either draw a rushed foul or drop the game winner well within his range, Odom had a hand in his face and took what I thought was an off balance shot, Kobe had nothing between him and the basket but air.

Not that it should have ever come to that in the first place. The game was well in hand with 34 seconds to go and they had a fresh 24 to bring the ball upcourt and milk the clock and either hit and easy 2 or force a foul inside, either of which would have sealed the Kings fate, but NOOOOOOOOO, he drives the lane early and hard and draws the offensive foul and breaths new life into a Kings team that heretofore had looked quite resigned to fall under .500 in their own building. THAT, my friends is what we as Laker fans are on about, flashes of brilliance punctuated by periods of sheer stupidity, Odom knew better that that, and he did it anyway.

Kobe's 51 points to are MEANINGLESS because he simply will not involve his teammates, and as a result they are tepid, indeed downright unsure what to do when they find the rock in their hands, that is Kobe not playing within any kind of offensive scheme and while there was balance in the scoring amongst the rest of the Lakers (4 players in double figures) it only serves to reinforce the point that Kobe did not need to do it all himself, his teammates COULD have done more if he had let them. That would have spread out the sorry excuse for a defense the Kings have and the Lakers AND Kobe should have just rolled.

Smush Parker was NFL style tackled on that illegal screen near the end of regulation and it should have been a foul on the Kings, it wasn't called and Bibby hits the shot, don't tell me the Lakers get all the calls!!

My point is, last night demonstrated a couple of things, Kobe is a ballhog (news flash for you JoMal, even we Laker fans know that) but his brilliance in scoring, if coupled to involving his teammates could easily put him at a Magic Johnson or Michael Jordan level IF he would deflate his ego and realize there are 4 other guys out on the floor with the same uniform on. Odom has TREMENDOUS potential (16, 10, and 6) but he is also inconsistant and makes bad judgment calls like driving instead of milking the clock, and attempting an ill-advised last second shot when a serious cluth threat, Kobe Bryant is wide open not 15 feet from him.

The Lakers should have blown the Kings off the floor, the collapse in the last 2 minutes was unbelievable, props to the Kings for seeing the collapse for what it was and captitalizing on it, Bibby was HUGE, and Kenny Thomas just schooled Walton after Odom fouled out.

[JoMal]

The Lakers leading 104-101 with under 10 seconds and defending the Kings...

Why on Earth they bothered defending the 2.  A King drives from the arc towoard the lane and a couple Lakers including Kwame attempt to guard him.  Leaving Kwame wayy out of position to guard B-Rad Miller for the 3 pter tie. :crazy:

Don't know if any of you stayed on TNT after the game to listen to the so-called "recap" by the studio experts...sorry...Barkley thinks they should be referred to as "analysts" but they all thought the Lakers lost the game more then the Kings went out and won it. In fact, they never mentioned the Kings at all for the ten minutes they talked about it.

The most common sentiment, expressed by Barkley initially but then echoed by the rest, was "Stupid, stupid, stupid". Charles went on to say he has now witnessed at least five games this year, where teams gave up late threes to either win or tie games, when that would be the ONLY shot that would have done that.

Defending the three or fouling for two, then your team getting the ball back with seconds on the clock and a one point lead. "How can you lose that game", one of the others asked.  

Would have been nice if at least one of them acknowledged that the Kings still had to overcome a five point deficit with 32 seconds left. But it was just how the Lakers lost it rather then the Kings taking full advantage and hitting two critical three pointers.

[guest-koast]

westkoast, a couple of things:

2.  Yes, Kobe didn't take the final shot at the end of the fourth, but he looked MIGHTY pissed about it.

It started off with you:  "-- Kobe not only went 3 for 4 down the stretch in the 4th but OMG he passed to Odom for what could have been the game deciding 3 pointer. So much for never making the right decisions (Kwame was also given a nice pass with a little bit of time left but could not convert that too could have been the game deciding basket) In OT he took a few too many shots on his own once the went down by 8-9 but he was still passing the ball inside the triangle and into the post."

To which Wolverine put  "2.  Yes, Kobe didn't take the final shot at the end of the fourth, but he looked MIGHTY pissed about it.  See the box?

You responded by:  " 2. That was Kobe's own fault why he didn't get to take the shot. I think if he watched the replay of the game he would realize he was the one who did not get open quick enough. He stayed on the wing about a second too long. If Odom was to cough the ball up then it would have been a worse look than what Odom had."

That one would surmise you were talking about the same shot as Wolverine... :rolleyes:

You know what they say Reality when you assume right?  I dont think I need to tell you that one.  Not to throw a wrench in your attempt but assits only come from made shots and you do not recieve an assist for inbounding the ball to the shooter.

JoMaL, the princeton offense looked good last night.  Maybe the Lakers would have a much easier time all around if they could cut half as good as the Kings squad was in the first half.  Odom is a great passer so I don't see why we dont see more of that.  Apparently this team enjoys making the game harder than it is.  As you saw last night with 35 seconds left.

I read where Tex Winter thinks Odom is coming around to working with the triangle, and that he should be scoring consistently 15 to 20 points a night with 10 to 15 rebounds. His problem, according to Tex, is that Lamar hasn't learned to play a team concept within the triangle, and play off the ball.

He also had some criticism of Kobe:

"Most of these guys have to rely pretty much on team play and Kobe doesn't," Winter said. "He doesn't have to rely on the offense, even though we'd like for him to rely on it a little more than he does. I guess that's the best way to put it. He could give the ball up more, hit the first open man a little bit more, play off the ball a little more."

Against the Heats and Cavs Kobe scored 37 and 40 much easier because he was moving inside the triangle without the ball.  Tex Winters assesment is dead on in that regard.  I think we all agree Kobe can do a little bit more passing.  The real test is will he continue to do it on a regular basis.  This falls under the 'Lakers making the game harder than it is' category.  Kobe is just as guilty as the others are.  He could score 40 and only expend half the energy if more shots were coming by moving off the ball.  The confidence thing goes both ways,  the players have to have confidence in their shot and Kobe has to pass them the ball to say 'I have confidence in your shot'.  The one person Kobe seems to do that for is Sasha but I think that is as much about them being friends as confidence in his jumper.

And Winters is saying what I was saying in that Odom is getting most of his assists playing basic basketball as oppose to getting most of them in the triangle.  That is not a knock, just a statement.  I personally enjoy seeing him rebound and push to get the assists but if he is to play that point forward role ala Pippen he is going to have to improve that part of his game.  Magic Johnson went on record saying that he thinks Lamar Odom is a very smart basketball player and knows the game as well as anyone so should only be a matter of time before he gets better in that offense.

One thing I think everyone keeps overlooking is the fact that this team is very young.  Second youngest in the league.  If it wasn't the LA Lakers I do not think the team would be expected to be a 2nd round playoff team due to age.  I think they would be given at least a few years to develop as a team.  Then again, they do have Kobe Bryant and Phil Jackson at the reins.

[JoMal]

See, I was watching the game and I thought it was Kobe who inbounded the ball. If not him, who did?

Jomal,

Why not go ahead and watch it.  You can even get a replay of a bit of the Kobe pouting he was not The Chosen One.  Of course I and ESPN are making this up.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/recap?gameId=260119023

I watched it but I still could not tell it was Parker who inbounded. I will take the word of others on it.

[Reality]

This is a strange thread, and I will not add to this strangness by participating in the schoolyard shouting match going on.

Smush Parker was NFL style tackled on that illegal screen...

Comic books are still a part of schoolyard campuses.

I agree Kobme should have taken the end of reg shot.  He was well over 50%, had hit his last 3 of 4.  Even with his one second delay he would have caught and shot in time.  In fact the one second delay was a good fake out.  Concur Odoms attempt was with a Kings hand in face, total brick.

Jomal you'll have to take westkoasts word for it.  I don't know or care who inbounded it.