Kobe handles the pretendor

[msc]

Maybe one other thing.

You don't need a hook to catch fish in a barrel.

Here's to dabod's barrel. :cheers:

I too once enjoyed shooting fish in a barrell, but now Kobe is on my team so there aren't any shots left for me to take    

[Laker Fan]

Here's where I say that I think both Kobe and LeBron aren't right on the money as to their judgement of where the "clutch" shot should go.

Kobe errs too far on the side of doing it himself.  He always has, ever since he came into the league.

LeBron errs too far on the side of letting someone else do it.  He has ever since he came into the league.

Both have adjustments to make.

I simply believe that as a coach, it's easier to fix the "problem" with the latter. 

When you add to it that the younger, less experienced player has the easier-to-fix problem, I think that's what separates the two. 

LeBron's problem *MIGHT* simply be one of incorrect judgement.

I think it's easier to build the humble up than to tear the proud down.

I don't think I could have said it better myself Joe, EXCELLENT post!

That being said, I think your point applies more in the flow of the game overall that in crunch time, but seeing as we are talking about clutch shots my opinion is, I like Kobe taking the clutch shot, I think Lebron should likewise take the clutch shot. Any superstar, or potential superstar, needs to have that desire, and more often than not, he will be the person a clutch shot play is developed around, it is only natural.

However, again your post is dead on, Kobe's ego will virtually ALWAYS override common sense and consequently, on the rare occasion when the smart play IS to pass to the open man, he will opt for the "do it all myself look at me" option, not even Shaq, with an ego as big as his appetite, is that arrogant, he has always been a willing passer, clutch time or not. We as Laker fans are just fortunate that it pays off enough to keep us from forming a lynch mob.

[Laker Fan]

The number 1 thing I have learned on this thread:

yous dooodes caint spelll fer nuthin!!! (And I expected better from JoMal, although I am not sure why, he DOES work for the state!!!)

[JoMal]

JoMaL is that your defense everytime you make silly comments that do not hold weight?  "I was just baiting" "here is another fish for the barrell"

Seems to me like you've been fading in and out of trying to bait and actually thinking you have valid points :lol:

My points are valid, its the audience that's skanky.

[westkoast]

JoMaL is that your defense everytime you make silly comments that do not hold weight?  "I was just baiting" "here is another fish for the barrell"

Seems to me like you've been fading in and out of trying to bait and actually thinking you have valid points :lol:

My points are valid, its the audience that's skanky.

Half of them are valid only on assumption island.  I proved a bunch of them were nothing more than you talking out your rear end.

I am going to use the Jomal defense on other message boards I post on now.  If half of your post is based on assumptions and nastradamus like predictions make sure if you get called on it that you fall back on the 'the powerbait is strong today' rebutal!  :up:  

[JoMal]

I am hoping for your sake and credibility that this is nothing more than powerbait.  I really really am hoping here.

 

And I for one don't blame you, but I couldn't make this stuff up. That Kobe quote is legit, but I can't remember what article I saw it, in or find the link to it.

I guess taking shots over a 6'2 guard who cannot laterally move as fast as you can is not a smart option.  Phil Jackson's first option has been to shoot the ball, I think you need to re-think who actually calls up those plays.  Apparently again, you seem to be ass kissing for Kobe cuz now apparently he is the coach also!!

Talk some sense or just give up trying. You are really beginning to sound like a moron a little to convincingly now. If you want to make up your own interpretation of what I am saying, fine, but at least act like you read what I posted and not keep trying to restate what I said to suit your own biases.

I mean you are assuming, as usual, that he is playing one way everytime.  How would you even have any idea if you do not watch the games?  The point is, you don't.  I could point out MANY times that Kobe has given up the ball in crunch time or name right off the top of my head game winning shots made by other players off a Kobe pass this year but I do not want to bother you with facts.

Clearly. Facts are a bother. But if he passes the ball so someone else can take the shot, how come we only get the Kobe highlights all the time? The guy takes an average of nine shots every fourth quarter, which, I understand, leads the League. He averages 27 shots A GAME ! That is a full extra shot a game over the next highest, Iverson, and five more then the third most, our new friend Lebron James. Oddly enough, though, his shooting percentage is lower then those other two guys. One of whom is ALLAN IVERSON, I would like to point out. His three point shooting percentage is also lower then theirs, and that includes LEBRON JAMES, who has been dissed a bit up to now for not having the best outside shot.

And get this, factoid-challenged pissant! Bryant averages 4.4 assists a game, which is a bit less then Iversons 7.5 and less then James' 6.1, if my math is holding up for you. Does any of this translate into the simple fact that Kobe Bryant is just a bit less interested in involving his teammates then some of the other guys in the League who are known for taking a lot of shots?

So if you want to go find an example of when Kobe Bryant actually passed the ball to a teammate in a late game gambit, why don't you also find out how many times that teammate passed the ball back to Bryant again for the shot.

In his own words, Bryant considers having his teammates rebound his misses as getting them "involved".

So don't go talking about "facts" and that you "watch" Laker games all the time if you don't have the comprehension to understand what you are actually watching.

This is flat out pathetic!

Is that true?  Maybe in what-if-ville or assumption island where you have taken residence.  Pretty much you are sitting back playing Nastradamus by saying everytime Kobe is not going to find the best shot and everytime Lebron will.  Quite a bold statement huh?  If you want to look like a clown from the circus then so be it lol

Oh there are bound to be some examples of Kobe passing the ball. He just is not prone to doing it much, and the FACTS point that out clearly. It also appears that he passes the ball mainly to just reestablish himself for the return pass so he can shoot a third of his team's field goals. Only Iverson clears over thirty percent of his team's field goals along with Kobe in the League, but at least he makes a better percentage of them.

Jordan did do fine with Bill Cartwright, he was also in a system that gets other players open shots, creates spacing, and allows for better ball movement.  Is Lebron running the triangle?  Oh he isnt!! 

Exactly who in the second half of the Bulls run was a center who dominated in the playoffs?  Aside from Shaq who's team kept running into a much better Utah team?

At this point, I don't think you had better try any comparisons of the success rate of players who have played in the triangle, especially without a quality center. Or are you just joking around here? :drunk:

But I like the reference of the fact that LeBron isn't running the triangle. I suppose your subtle meaning is that Bryant supposedly is. :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  
 :rofl:  :rofl:

Here is the difference between me and you.  I don't sit back and assume things I really dont know about.  Do I know if they secretly hate them? No.  Do you? Nope!  Do I know if they sit back and talk greatly about him at home to their wives? No.  Do you? Nope!

You are supposing, assuming, talking out of your ass...any of the above apply.  According to you, a person who doesn't watch the Lakers, they have not got to take part in late game heroics.  I saw otherwise but I guess I am not the mayor of assumption island either so what would I know?

You are the mayor of Kobe-kissing Island, apparently. And who needs to assume anything, the media has reported some dissention amongst the Lakers for years, with and without Shaq on the team to share the headlines about it.

And I would certainly hope there are some differences between us, because I think I would have to kill myself if I had to wake up every day being you.

Kobe could score a hundred and seventy points in a game and the Lakers would still lose if they were not playing defense.  Kobe is holding up the offense but offense is not what wins games through out the season, it is defense.  The Laker didn't beat the Heat on Monday because Kobe scored 37.  They won because they held the team to 42% shooting and well under their normal scoring average.

If any one thing is important to them turning it around this year then it is defense.  Kobe scored quite a bit last year too but the Lakers had a pretty pitfull record so explain that.

You are losing your edge old man 

First time defense has been brought up. Nice bail. You apparently can't keep up the defense of Kobe on offense, so why not skip thos annoying facts and go on the defensive, so to speak. I completely understand how that works for you.

I also think defense is the reason the Lakers can win more games then they lose this year, as Jackson has gotten terrific defensive play from all his guys. But the problem for them is very simple. There are a couple of other teams in the League who play pretty good defense and are not so much one-dimensional on offense.

[westkoast]

Oh wow it gets better, now I want you to sit back and wonder who is really baiting who here.  I've got you taking personal shots at me because of a difference of opinion so who do you think is getting the best of who here?  Pissant, moron, you want to kill yourself if you were me  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Just to let you know you are not the only person who can do this JoMaL, your skills are actually fading  

And I for one don't blame you, but I couldn't make this stuff up. That Kobe quote is legit, but I can't remember what article I saw it, in or find the link to it.

I didn't say you made stuff up.  What I am getting at is that you are trying your hardest to twist this quote around to try to justify one of your verbal darts at Kobe.  That is why I said, for your sake and credibility, that you don't really believe that what he said in that quote was him saying that he is sharing the ball with his teammates by missing shots.

Talk some sense or just give up trying. You are really beginning to sound like a moron a little to convincingly now. If you want to make up your own interpretation of what I am saying, fine, but at least act like you read what I posted and not keep trying to restate what I said to suit your own biases.

I am pointing something simple out.  Last second shots are drawn up in the huddle during a timeout most of the time, now who leads those huddles in drawing up plays on a little white board.  Just curious who you think that might be.

Clearly. Facts are a bother. But if he passes the ball so someone else can take the shot, how come we only get the Kobe highlights all the time? The guy takes an average of nine shots every fourth quarter, which, I understand, leads the League. He averages 27 shots A GAME ! That is a full extra shot a game over the next highest, Iverson, and five more then the third most, our new friend Lebron James. Oddly enough, though, his shooting percentage is lower then those other two guys. One of whom is ALLAN IVERSON, I would like to point out. His three point shooting percentage is also lower then theirs, and that includes LEBRON JAMES, who has been dissed a bit up to now for not having the best outside shot.

Maybe you need to talk to ESPN about that?  You are pretty smart guy... I mean think why the NBA and ESPN would rather highlight an all-star player who can market products and push up ratings instead of pointing out Sasha made a three pointer to win the last OT game?  Or Kwame getting a deep pass for a layup that ended up being the difference in the game.  Like I said, you would know a little bit more if you watched more games as oppose to just blindly pounding away at your keyboard.

And get this, factoid-challenged pissant! Bryant averages 4.4 assists a game, which is a bit less then Iversons 7.5 and less then James' 6.1, if my math is holding up for you. Does any of this translate into the simple fact that Kobe Bryant is just a bit less interested in involving his teammates then some of the other guys in the League who are known for taking a lot of shots?

We all know he takes more shots but exactly what does this have to do with what we are originally talking about?  Please explain to me how pointing out he has less assists and takes more shots means that he never passes the ball in crunch time and never  will.  Funny you bring up Iverson because when the game is on the line in crunch time he is taking the shots....so you pointing out him having more assists does not mean he is giving it up in crunch time.  Does it mean he is sharing the ball more? Yes it does.  Does that mean he is coughing it up at the end of the game? No it doesn't.  I think dabods and Rick would agree that they want Iverson taking the last shot and not Ig, Korver, or Webber.

So if you want to go find an example of when Kobe Bryant actually passed the ball to a teammate in a late game gambit, why don't you also find out how many times that teammate passed the ball back to Bryant again for the shot.

They dont carry stats for that sorry, but exactly how is that Kobe's fault?  There have been times this season where he passed the ball to a teammate for a last second shot and they tossed it back to him in a bad spot and he ended up taking a low % shot....only for the TV camera man show Kobe saying that he should have taken the shot (happend with Brian Cook and Smush off the top of my head).  Again, for the umptenth time, if you watched the games maybe you would have a little bit more ground to stand on???  

I feel like I am debating with Ray Charles.  You are talking about situations you have not seen with your own eyes.

In his own words, Bryant considers having his teammates rebound his misses as getting them "involved".

So don't go talking about "facts" and that you "watch" Laker games all the time if you don't have the comprehension to understand what you are actually watching.

This is flat out pathetic!

Not in his own words.  He said they were putting back his misses no where did it say anything about him thinking that him sharing the ball.  Nowhere was it even hinted to that.   That is something you twisted around, bent up, and slammed around to fit into JoMaL's box of bias!

I understand very well what I am watching, the thing is how are you going to understand what is going on if you are not watching at all?!  This is just you blindly going into a rant and I think it is flat out pathetic.  Not to mention you've resorted to petty name calling  :rofl:

Oh there are bound to be some examples of Kobe passing the ball. He just is not prone to doing it much, and the FACTS point that out clearly. It also appears that he passes the ball mainly to just reestablish himself for the return pass so he can shoot a third of his team's field goals. Only Iverson clears over thirty percent of his team's field goals along with Kobe in the League, but at least he makes a better percentage of them.

Facts do not point that out clearly.  There was a game a few weeks ago (Ill dig up the stats) where Kobe passed the ball for the entire first half and the team shot something like 35-40% now, as the basketball genius you are,  you should know you only get assists when guys make shots.   He could be passing the ball quite a bit in a game but only end up with 2 assists and you wouldnt know because you are not watching the game.  

Do I think he can pass more? Sure.  Does living in the box score tell the story of every game? Nope!

Again, you are showing why you are the mayor of assumption island 'it also appears that he passes the ball mainly to just reestablish himself so he can shoot a third of his teams field goals'  If you didnt know most of his assists are coming from drive and kicks to guys shooting 3s and 25 foot jumpers.  Guys like Sasha, Brian Cook, and Smush Parker.  So it would appear that you dont know what your talking about again.

We dont have to mention the ball swinging around in the triangle that gets him shots.  Now he is only running the triangle so he can take all the shots!  Did not know that.  Thanks for opening up my eyes!

At this point, I don't think you had better try any comparisons of the success rate of players who have played in the triangle, especially without a quality center. Or are you just joking around here? 

But I like the reference of the fact that LeBron isn't running the triangle. I suppose your subtle meaning is that Bryant supposedly is.     
 

How would you know if he is running the triangle or not if you dont watch the game?  I think the Lakers W/L since mid-decemeber speaks if they are running the triangle or not.  Are they 100% effective? Nope.  They are currently ranked 15th in the league in shooting % so I think if you look at Kobe's lower shooting pct and look at what the whole team is shooting you will see they are shooting better than last year because of shots inside the triangle.  Kobe plays 40 minutes a game if hes not running the triangle is he creating all these shots for them?  

You are the mayor of Kobe-kissing Island, apparently. And who needs to assume anything, the media has reported some dissention amongst the Lakers for years, with and without Shaq on the team to share the headlines about it.

And I would certainly hope there are some differences between us, because I think I would have to kill myself if I had to wake up every day being you.

This is my favorite part of this whole rant from you.  Especially, the kill myself part.  Too funny  :rofl:

Media has reported it from unknown sources, the media use to report similar things about MJ but since its not Kobe he doesn't get the same heat for it.  He is actually given props for his competitiveness causing him to say rude things to teammates, I guess when you have a perfect media image that stuff is pushed under the rug.  I am not saying he is a perfect teammate, just not the devil either.

First time defense has been brought up. Nice bail. You apparently can't keep up the defense of Kobe on offense, so why not skip thos annoying facts and go on the defensive, so to speak. I completely understand how that works for you.

I also think defense is the reason the Lakers can win more games then they lose this year, as Jackson has gotten terrific defensive play from all his guys. But the problem for them is very simple. There are a couple of other teams in the League who play pretty good defense and are not so much one-dimensional on offense.

I bring defense up all the time.  You can ask anyone who posts around here.  I have said it since day one and will continue to say it.  So good try, but its far from my 'bail' considering ive been saying it all year.  We have a search function here, go use it.  You will see from the very first game I made comments on the defense (oh and imagine I gave props to Devean George for the win OMG*!#@ hell is freezing over)

This last part is funny considering everyone knows that all year ive been preaching and talking about Laker defense and how it has won and lost games for them.  Again, I guess I am confusing you with facts......especially ones that cannot be bent around to fit my view because you can use the search function to see for yourself.

Use the search function and look at how many times I've brought up the defense when talking about wins and loses that Lakers have had this year.

[JoMal]

BOOOOOORRRRRIIIIIINNNNNNNGGGGGG

Look up this, look up that. Weaselly. Can't you just state what you mean RIGHT NOW, without having to rely on quoting yourself from your past tirades?

This was the first time defense was mentioned in THIS discussion, and since it has little to do with what was being discussed here, yeah, it looks like you are bailing on the topic at hand. And since I agree the Laker's defense this year has been solid, it really is pointless and BOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNGGGGGGG of you to bring it into this topic.

 :cry: But wipe away those tears of frustration for my calling you on it. I have no plans of letting you change the subject.

And the personnel shots tend to build up over time. You tend to be a patronizing SOB who thinks no one else has a clue about what the Lakers are doing or how they are doing it, facts be damned. You say you watch Laker games all the time, but you get portentous concerning any outside critiques of them. Because you have personnally witnessed an occasion or two that differs from the, sorry to bring it back into the realm of reality, FACTS being brought up, you get haughty and act like you know what is really happening as no other could possibly figure out. Facts, I might add, that you completely and utterly ignore if they don't fit in with your perceptions about the Lakers and Bryant.

Compare me to having to deal with Ray Charles if you like. I have to deal with Helen Keller.

So you want to twist around Bryant's quote, be my guest. But any SANE person who heard that comment would give pause as to what he was implying by saying all his misses help his teammates set up for offensive rebounds. I think there are easier ways within the triangle to get your teammates involved then a hope and a prayer they can hussle after your missed shots.

What I was saying by bringing this quote up at all was that Kobe never should have said it in the first place.

As for who draws up those last second plays, gee, I don't know, why don't we ask our resident patronizing Laker poster who may flamboyantly condescend to tell us?

Do you think, just maybe, several options are drawn up at the same time, you know, just in case the other team is over there drawing up, I don't know, some kind of defense to alter the offensive plan? You know what I mean...an option that involves passing the ball? Some players tend to listen through the WHOLE plan for these gameending plays, instead of shutting out his coach after "First, we inbound the ball to Kobe....."

Oh, right, I don't watch any Laker games, ever, apparently, so how would I know that Jackson actually says anything after that first line. Since you must sit in on these huddles, I must defer to you on how tactful Jackson must be in covering up for his star player seemingly not paying attention to him after that.  

You know what all those damned stats show, that seem to really be gnawing at your innards? Just that Kobe tends to keep the ball and shoot the ball more then some others do. Like all others in the League do, actually. Good, bad or unimportant, averaging nine shots in the fourth quarter does not equate to a tendency to share the ball in crunch time.

Which, come to think of it, as a consequence, IS EXACTLY MY POINT THAT HE SELDOM PASSES THE BALL IN CRUTCH TIME!!!!! And you know what, I don't even fault him all that much for it because apparently everyone inside and outside of LA thinks he should, so why should I feel any different? But come on!!!! Does it really bode well for the Lakers to have one guy who dominates the ballhandling instead of trying other things more than in a few games this year?  

[JoMal]

Half of them are valid only on assumption island.  I proved a bunch of them were nothing more than you talking out your rear end.

I am going to use the Jomal defense on other message boards I post on now.  If half of your post is based on assumptions and nastradamus like predictions make sure if you get called on it that you fall back on the 'the powerbait is strong today' rebutal!  :up:

PROOF? You are talking PROOF? You have offered no proof whatsoever, except that you watch Laker games. Your alledged "proof" has been your opinion, and that's it. And your opinion has the same stench about it as your rear end reference.  

[westkoast]

[

BOOOOOORRRRRIIIIIINNNNNNNGGGGGG

Look up this, look up that. Weaselly. Can't you just state what you mean RIGHT NOW, without having to rely on quoting yourself from your past tirades?

I want you to look them up yourself so as I dont 'taint' :rolleyes: the evidence.  Is there a problem with that?  You can sit back and type up essays but cannot dig for your own information?!

This was the first time defense was mentioned in THIS discussion, and since it has little to do with what was being discussed here, yeah, it looks like you are bailing on the topic at hand. And since I agree the Laker's defense this year has been solid, it really is pointless and BOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNGGGGGGG of you to bring it into this topic.

Why is it the first time this was brought up?  Oh wait...maybe because this thread was about Kobe/Lebron, decisions they make on the court, and how clutch they are.  Excuse me if I don't go completely off topic to talk about Laker defense when that wasn't what we were talking about in this thread originally.    We were talking about two individuals were we not?  :crazy:

 

:cry: But wipe away those tears of frustration for my calling you on it. I have no plans of letting you change the subject. 

Wipe away what tears?  I was not the one getting miffed, you were.  You took the personal shots at me so exactly who is the one who is frustrated or got butt hurt over the exchange?  Certainly not me.  I didnt say I would kill myself if I were you :lol:

And the personnel shots tend to build up over time. You tend to be a patronizing SOB who thinks no one else has a clue about what the Lakers are doing or how they are doing it, facts be damned. You say you watch Laker games all the time, but you get portentous concerning any outside critiques of them. Because you have personnally witnessed an occasion or two that differs from the, sorry to bring it back into the realm of reality, FACTS being brought up, you get haughty and act like you know what is really happening as no other could possibly figure out. Facts, I might add, that you completely and utterly ignore if they don't fit in with your perceptions about the Lakers and Bryant.

No one?  Or just someone who has constantly done this over the past two years?  I dont say these kind of things to Joe, Skander, or Ted do I?  I dont.  You know why?  Because they are not sitting back saying what the team or players are or are not doing in specific situations.  Probably because they dont watch the games so they dont comment on it.  You have a record of doing this.  As does Reality.

That's real funny JoMaL because people have been very critical of Kobe and I have agree'd at times and disagreed.  To say that I try to stop any critizism of Kobe is not true, especially since I too have criticize.  And if anything you do not want anybody to NOT criticize Kobe.  If they do you have a major problem with it as shown in this exchange.  If it is a fact that Kobe never passes the ball in crunch time and never runs the triangle...then should it hold true always?  It is a fact right?  I am getting at you specifically because you are making assumptions on what goes on during games you do not watch.  I never said no one could possibly know what is going on.  What I am saying is how would you know what is going on if you dont watch the games?  Dont you actually have to see the games to comment on whats going on?  I believe you do.

Ya I utterly ignore anything that doesnt paint the Lakers as perfect, now that is a crock of flaming crap and you know it.  Again I am going to tell you to use the search function, you can go back for the last few years and see if that is true Mr. Facts.

Compare me to having to deal with Ray Charles if you like. I have to deal with Helen Keller.

So you want to twist around Bryant's quote, be my guest. But any SANE person who heard that comment would give pause as to what he was implying by saying all his misses help his teammates set up for offensive rebounds. I think there are easier ways within the triangle to get your teammates involved then a hope and a prayer they can hussle after your missed shots.

I am not twisting the quote around.  His entire conversation was about how well they did on the offensive glass.  How that turned into 'Ya I was sharing the ball with my teammates by clanking shots' I dunno...Exactly what sane people agree with you?  I've yet to hear anyone chime in and agree with you on that quote other than Reality.  He certainly is objective when it comes to the Lakers :rolleyes:  Was Kobe implying or was JoMaL assuming to fit his little twisted view?  I would say the later.  Its not like Kobe took all the shots that game yet he was comenting on the offensive rebounding of the whole entire game...hmmmmm

What I was saying by bringing this quote up at all was that Kobe never should have said it in the first place.

Lets all burn Kobe at the stake for talking about the offensive rebounding being the difference in that game!!!  

As for who draws up those last second plays, gee, I don't know, why don't we ask our resident patronizing Laker poster who may flamboyantly condescend to tell us?

You are the resident nastradamus, why dont you use your powers to see into the future and look into the Lakers huddle in the near future?  Better yet, why dont you use the secret microphones you have planed on the players to figure it out.

See I dont do this 'watch the game' thing to everyone.  Only you and Reality.  Obviously there is a reason why I do it specifically to you two over and over.  I'll tell you why too....because you both think because you look at the box score or see highlights on ESPN that you know what happend through the course of the game and the season.

Do you think, just maybe, several options are drawn up at the same time, you know, just in case the other team is over there drawing up, I don't know, some kind of defense to alter the offensive plan? You know what I mean...an option that involves passing the ball? Some players tend to listen through the WHOLE plan for these gameending plays, instead of shutting out his coach after "First, we inbound the ball to Kobe....."

You would have to ask Phil Jackson.  I've seen ESPN classic games where the only play he drew up was set a screen for Micheal to take a shot.  No secondary options.

Oh, right, I don't watch any Laker games, ever, apparently, so how would I know that Jackson actually says anything after that first line. Since you must sit in on these huddles, I must defer to you on how tactful Jackson must be in covering up for his star player seemingly not paying attention to him after that. 

Name all the games you've seen this year.  You hate the Lakers yet you are claiming to watch a bunch of the games?  Did you even watch the Miami Heat game?  Based on your comments in the thread I dont think youve watched more than a few Laker games.  Enlighten me though, JoMaL tell me how you secretly sit for 48 minute to watch a team, player, and coach you despise to no end.

I dont sit in on the huddle, apparently you do.  You know all the inside information, not me.

You know what all those damned stats show, that seem to really be gnawing at your innards? Just that Kobe tends to keep the ball and shoot the ball more then some others do. Like all others in the League do, actually. Good, bad or unimportant, averaging nine shots in the fourth quarter does not equate to a tendency to share the ball in crunch time.

Nothing is gnawing at my innards.  I must have got you in the gut tho based on your petty little shots at me.

Does he tend to only keep the ball and take all the shots?  I think that happend in the last minute against the Cavs (nationally televised and since you watch so many games must have caught it) but against the Heat? Nope.  Pretty much all his points were in the flow of the offense.

Which, come to think of it, as a consequence, IS EXACTLY MY POINT THAT HE SELDOM PASSES THE BALL IN CRUTCH TIME!!!!! And you know what, I don't even fault him all that much for it because apparently everyone inside and outside of LA thinks he should, so why should I feel any different? But come on!!!! Does it really bode well for the Lakers to have one guy who dominates the ballhandling instead of trying other things more than in a few games this year?

So it went from NEVER PASES OR MAKES THE RIGHT DECISION to SELDOM?  You are right JoMaL for an entire 12 minutes he does not give the ball up at all.   The last 3 games, in crunch time, he is shooting over 70% so why exactly should he pass the ball to someone else if he is scorching hot?

And the last question, if you paid any attention to my super bias only paint the Lakers and especially Kobe in the highest almost-jesus like level you would know exactly what I've said on this time and time again.  I think the scoring needs to be more balanced but I want the players to be up to take the shot.

Obviously you lost at your own 'baiting' game, just thought I'd point that out.

[Skandery]

Pardon a slight interjection you two.  

Exactly what sane people agree with you? I've yet to hear anyone chime in and agree with you on that quote other than Reality.

Ummm...westkoast...consider this a chime, I thought the quote by Kobe was pretty asinine any way you slice it.  Either he chose a horrible way of backhand complimenting his teams O-rebounding, or he was trying to spin the negativity of a lot of missed FGs.

Which, come to think of it, as a consequence, IS EXACTLY MY POINT THAT HE SELDOM PASSES THE BALL IN CRUTCH TIME!!!!!

Ahhh...JoMaL...I've actually never heard of crutch time, I have heard of crunch time though.  

<quickly ducks out of the way as objects are thrown at him>

[westkoast]

Pardon a slight interjection you two. 

Exactly what sane people agree with you? I've yet to hear anyone chime in and agree with you on that quote other than Reality.

Ummm...westkoast...consider this a chime, I thought the quote by Kobe was pretty asinine any way you slice it.  Either he chose a horrible way of backhand complimenting his teams O-rebounding, or he was trying to spin the negativity of a lot of missed FGs.

Which, come to think of it, as a consequence, IS EXACTLY MY POINT THAT HE SELDOM PASSES THE BALL IN CRUTCH TIME!!!!!

Ahhh...JoMaL...I've actually never heard of crutch time, I have heard of crunch time though.  

<quickly ducks out of the way as objects are thrown at him>

Let me ask you this Skandery...

Based on the quote do you feel that Kobe was saying that his way of sharing the ball with his teammates is by missing shots?  Cuz you just said that either its 'a horrible way of complimenting his teams o-rebounding' or 'he is trying to spin the missed shots into a positive'  

Btw, dont consider yourself sane because if you see it any other way than how JoMaL put it then you are insane!  You saying it could go anyway it was sliced automatically makes you second in line for the straight jacket (behind me of course).

[JoMal]

EEEEEOOOOOOWWW!!!

Dogs are starting to bark down the street now when I open any of your posts, your high-pitched whining is getting so human ears can't hear it.

I am calling you on it. Provide some kind of factoid that backs up your own allegations and fabrications and stop bleating like a gutted sheep that follows its own rear end off a cliff.

Because I have news for you. Reading your old posts does not qualify as the FACTS that backs up anything else you say.  

I honestly do not get where you are coming from on all this. I make a comment about Kobe's lack of diversity late in games - my opinion being he is too focused on his own shot - and you go off like you always do with your typical pompous attitude about it and comparing him to Michael Jordan in the triangle. One of the major area where Kobe does not enter that comparison is how Jordan used his teammates and how Kobe uses his.  

I don't have this type of problem with Joe, Skandery, or Ted either, genius, nor Randy or Laker Fan as a matter of fact, though we always have areas of disagreement. But you? You're apparently too obtuse to follow the dissertations in a logical fashion. Trying to extract common sense out of your cries for help apparent in your posts is galling to me as I weed through your constant arrogance about Laker topics.

And be clear about that Kobe quote. He was going about giving faint praise regarding his teammates rebounding all his misses in a game the Lakers LOST, so it was hardly what you might call the difference.

For your information, the Heat/Laker game is not the kind of game this is about, is it, but don't let me distract you with more facts. Why would Kobe still be shooting late in that one when the Lakers already had a sizable lead? You DID watch that game, right, and you DO understand the topic being discussed here, right?

Close games? Who shoots the ball when the game is on the line? Ring a bell?

Or do you really expect me to fall back into your crazy, nonfact based diatribe that has nothing whatsoever to do with what we originally started out as a sane discussion until you hijacked it once again by blowing smoke out your arse, hoping to cover up your lack of reason on the subject matter.

I still do not believe that Kobe needs to shoot the ball as much as he does late in close Laker games, and surprise, surprise, you have provided nothing whatsoever to convince me otherwise. Maybe that is exactly what his Laker teammates, Phil Jackson, and Kobe himself believe he has to do for the best chance the Lakers have to win those games, but I just do not believe they should trust doing that in the long term and especially not in the playoffs.

I do believe that LeBron James works hard for his team's offensive diversity and he certainly is learning the game the right way. Again, that is my opinion comparing him to Kobe. Kobe wants that last shot and everybody knows it. LeBron may or may not want it, but isn't that just a better way to play the game?

[westkoast]

Crying, whining?  If anyone is catching any sort of feeling or getting emotional in this thread it is you Mr. Petty insults.  Not me.  I am actually getting a kick out of this because your feathers have been seriously ruffled.   Mr Rile up posters by baiting them is getting a taste of his own medicine.   We can go back and forth till the end of time, doesn't bother me not at all.

Lets play a little revisitng of just 2 pages ago.....The whole exchange started when I laughed at a comment you made about Kobe/Horry

But Kobe will NEVER see a teammate of his ever get an opportunity like Horry did as long as he is on the Lakers. My guess is that LeBron would be likely to see it, and even Tracy McGrady, to a lesser extent.

This is where I called you on the fact that Horry's oppurtunity came from Vlade Divac and not another basketball player.  This is also where the nastradamus swipes I have been taking came from.  The fact you can see into the future and proclaim NEVER.  Then it went to 'sometimes' and then 'occasionally'.

You responded with your typical I-am-greater-than-thou-peon response when I pointed out that you indeed forget to use a valid example.  Which you happen to try to counter making this assinine statement...

Sort of like how Kobe claims he is creating opportunities now for his teammates to rebound his twenty or so misses per game. Just part of his 'plan' for involving his teammates.

What a guy.

And this is what started the exchange because I got on you about this obvious twisting of quotes.  Its your constant need to twist and bend when it comes to the Lakers that I called you on.

Of course you don't have those problems with Randy or Laker fan because for 1, Laker fan doesn't post here very much nor does he like to get into it and 2, no one wants to waste the time calling you out on what you do except me.  Of course Ted, Skander, and Joe dont care about the Lakers or what you chose to bend and twist.  I call you on it and obviously that bothers you a great deal.  Common sense and logic.....riggghhhtttt.  Since I don't let your off the wall comments slide without snide comments of my own I lack both.  Sounds to me like you are getting a taste of your own medicine.  Are you the only person who gets to make assinine comments to rile up other people for laughs?    

For your information, the Heat/Laker game is not the kind of game this is about, is it, but don't let me distract you with more facts. Why would Kobe still be shooting late in that one when the Lakers already had a sizable lead? You DID watch that game, right, and you DO understand the topic being discussed here, right?

The Lakers didnt have a sizeable lead going down the stretch.  They were up by 4 against a team with more firepower. (edit: it was a 5 point game from 2:36 on)  Is that what you call sizeable?  I dont, especially considering one team has more talent than the other.  Did you watch the game?  Way to make yourself look like an idiot with that comment.  I love how you chalk that one up as one of your 'facts' please dont distract me with non-facts like you just did...thanks!

Nothing will convince you otherwise...you act as if you are objective when it comes to Kobe and the Lakers

You say Kobe never passes the ball in crunch time..I give you multiple times when he has and even provided stats that Odom/Smush are 0-5 in that situation this year yet you prance around by saying 'well how come we dont see it on the highlights' only further proving you don't watch the games but wait for ESPN highlights and box score.  

If anyone is blowing smoke to cover up for the lack of reasoning its you.  You are very hard headed so there is no telling you anything regardless.  I am too and I will admit that.  I just find it funny you are pointing things out that I do as bad things when you in turn do the same exact thing.  You know you point out I cannot be objective when it comes to the Lakers (which is a lie because I try to be objective) yet you cannot either.  You point out that I am hard headed, guess what buddy? So are you.  You try to point out that I am on a high horse when it comes to the Lakers, you are on your high horse when commenting on the Lakers yourself...so much so you think you are a better coach than Phil Jackson.  You have all the answers and what Phil is doing right now is not how it should be according to you.    See the problems here?  

Maybe you might want to kill yourself because we are starting to sound pretty similar here.  I mean heck, you even spell almost as bad as me now too!  

[JoMal]

Ahhh...JoMaL...I've actually never heard of crutch time, I have heard of crunch time though.  

<quickly ducks out of the way as objects are thrown at him>

AHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAA

<and in case you didn't duck out of the way in time>  :force: