Author Topic: OT: Dabods thread missing?  (Read 9954 times)

Offline Skandery

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #60 on: November 23, 2005, 03:00:46 PM »
Hilarious!  I kind of skimmed through the website, pretty clever.  Being a Muslim, I especially thought the (pbuh) suffix was funny.    

It reminds me a lot of that one website about Harry or Henry.  

-You have to kiss Harry's a-- and he'll give you $1 million.
-If you don't kiss Harry's a--, he'll kick your a--
-You won't get the $1 million until you leave town.
-No one ever comes back after they leave town.

Don't remember the link anymore, I'll have to get my friend Jack to e-mail it to me or something.    

 
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."

rickortreat

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #61 on: November 24, 2005, 01:08:11 PM »
Joe IS right about one thing.  It is POSSIBLE that life was designed by another intelligence.

However, it seems apparent that s/he didn't leave easy to read instructions on how the whole thing was put together.    

But, I would dissagree strongly with the idea that the presence of lower form DNA sequences in humans is not supportive of the idea of evolution.  Note that there are sequences in the human genome, which do not appear in any of the lower forms- evidence of enhancement over what had been there before.  And also note that such  an apparent process has been at work a long time, with plenty of new species following less complex forms.

It isn't surprising if they are essential to life - you think our ancestors would pass on genes that didn't work!?   :ding:

Here's why I think it isn't an active intelligence at work:  A sufficient intelligence could have forseen species development to the level we have now.  s/he would presumably have the ability to create life in these forms from the beggining, instead of seeing so many of them failing to survive onwards and see so many new forms come into being later on.  We should actually be able to see evidence of this intelligence at work somehow intervening in what occurs in the world - particularly in reproduction.

To me, it appears more as though the life matrix is highly persistant and adaptive, capable of surviving in it's most basic form in a number of environments, and capable of engendering enhancements and greater complexity in higher forms in specific environments.

It also is highly dependent on the state of it's evolution when dramatic events occur  in it's presence, like say a meteor collision!  Isn't it interesting that when one hit and wiped out the dinosaurs, that they didn't come back, or life wouldn't evolve back in that direction again?  The very fact that that meteor came along when it did, was directly responisible for the changes in the direction of life that led to our evolution!  The small mamals that we eventually came from would never have been able to evolve into the other forms between them and us if not for the destruction of the dominant species at that time.

Therefore, life is highly interactive with it's environment, and the "survivability" of a given species is very dependent on it's capacity for adaptation when a severe change occurs.  Dinosaurs were highly successful survivors for much, much longer a period of time than man has existed.  They could have continued on, developing the way they had for perhaps billions of more years even developing an equal intelligence to humans at some point.  :nod:  

We could be living in a Universe where the majority of intellgent species are of ancestry more akin to Dinosaurs than Mamals!   :eek2:

By the way Joe or Randy, anywhere you see a delberate, active intelligence at work here or in the past, except perhaps at the very inception of life, please let me know, because I can't see it.

 :huh:


All I see is a life history where it just keeps chugging along no matter what, very persistant and adaptive, but it's very hard to discern any more spcific intent other than what survives long enough can reproduce.

 

Offline WayOutWest

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #62 on: November 24, 2005, 03:11:36 PM »
Quote
But, I would dissagree strongly with the idea that the presence of lower form DNA sequences in humans is not supportive of the idea of evolution.  Note that there are sequences in the human genome, which do not appear in any of the lower forms- evidence of enhancement over what had been there before.  And also note that such  an apparent process has been at work a long time, with plenty of new species following less complex forms.
 
rick,

You could make the arguement FOR ID.  A good object oriented programmer will write base classes that are used over and over again by other classes.  Those classes are then used by others.  The "inheritance" priciple is widely uses so you don't have to keep writting the same code over and over again.

The same could be said if someone design the genome of species on earth.
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rckortreat

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #63 on: November 24, 2005, 04:45:47 PM »
That's very true Westkoast, except that it is also the normal process of evolution and it is the only way that evolution could work with more complex forms being derived from their precendents.

How else could it be?  What survives reproduces, what reproduces interracts with and adapts to it's environment, or in the case of man, adapts the environment to his desires.

If you want to say DNA was intelligently designed, I don't know enough to say that it wasn't!  But everything that came after that evolved within the context of the planet without any apparent anatural incidents.

The question is, could DNA arise naturally out of natural chemical substances under the right conditions without any external intervention.  It is entirely possible that the begginings of life were entirely the result of chance chemical reactions and the resultant molecules that were formed.  One of them by chance worked well enough to reproduce itself, and that was the begging of life.  It could also be that someone or something planted those organisms on the planet, but that was so long ago that the possibility of finding any surviving evidence of such an event seems unlikely.  

If an outsider did it, another question arises- where did s/he come from?

Offline JoMal

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #64 on: November 28, 2005, 01:25:24 PM »
Do you think people in Ethiopia debate Intelligent Design, Evolution, or Creationism during their work breaks?

Or the people in China or India?

Why is it that, for some reason, people in the United States possess the egos to think they have the right answers to the question regarding human existence? Every culture on earth before us had an idea on the grand scheme of things, from the Indians of the Americas to the ancient Egyptians, both of whom had their own ideas about Intelligent Design forming their respective worlds (Aliens!!)

So do any of you really think we are entitled to question any of this, let alone debate the "real" answers like we are the only culture to come along that has a clue?

I have lived long enough to know that getting the "real" answer to this question will never satisfy everyone. If God created Man, then who created God? If Man created God, then Man is more powerful, but we know he is also incapable of intelligently designing himself, otherwise we would all be John Holmes clones with playmate clones hanging on our arms.

If we were made in God's image, why don't the Chinese look like us? Who created them? Is God really black? If our current religion was formed in the Holy Lands, aren't they all brown over there? Oops.

White America may be a bit misinformed about who created whom.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2005, 01:26:32 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline WayOutWest

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #65 on: November 28, 2005, 01:31:44 PM »
On a semi-related tangent......

I didn't fully realize until yesterday that most religions avoid the topic of incest being the basis for all human life on earth.

I was watching some show about how some books were included in the christian bible and others were not.  What a joke that book turns out to be, I wonder if the islamic and jewish holy books are in the same league.
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"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

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Offline Skandery

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #66 on: November 28, 2005, 02:15:57 PM »
Quote
I have lived long enough to know that getting the "real" answer to this question will never satisfy everyone.

Still JoMaL, you gotta admit it is fun discussing and arguing the esoteric, debating the unknown, questioning the ultimate.

We were bored yesterday so we rented this documentary/narrative story entitled, "What the Bleep Do We Know."  It was a fun, 1 hour 40 minute adventure into the minds of the over-educated as they use quantum physics to bombard us with assertions about reality and perception.  For instance did you know that your addiction to sensation and pre-conceived notions of matter confine you into thinking that you are looking directly into your monitor.  Really your monitor is now located in an infinite number of probable locations simultaneously.  

Rarely ever are these threads and discussions actually pertinent to our everyday lives, but MAN do we enjoy arguing about them. :nod:        
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Offline Joe Vancil

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #67 on: November 28, 2005, 02:25:02 PM »
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Why is it that, for some reason, people in the United States possess the egos to think they have the right answers to the question regarding human existence?

Isn't the fact that this discussion is taking place online, where people who are NOT in the United States also have access to it, a sign that the ideas present are far from certain, but open to debate by anyone?

 
Joe

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Offline JoMal

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #68 on: November 28, 2005, 02:44:01 PM »
Quote
Quote
Why is it that, for some reason, people in the United States possess the egos to think they have the right answers to the question regarding human existence?

Isn't the fact that this discussion is taking place online, where people who are NOT in the United States also have access to it, a sign that the ideas present are far from certain, but open to debate by anyone?
Certainly....


....so....where are they?
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #69 on: November 28, 2005, 02:50:13 PM »
Quote
Quote
I have lived long enough to know that getting the "real" answer to this question will never satisfy everyone.

Still JoMaL, you gotta admit it is fun discussing and arguing the esoteric, debating the unknown, questioning the ultimate.

We were bored yesterday so we rented this documentary/narrative story entitled, "What the Bleep Do We Know."  It was a fun, 1 hour 40 minute adventure into the minds of the over-educated as they use quantum physics to bombard us with assertions about reality and perception.  For instance did you know that your addiction to sensation and pre-conceived notions of matter confine you into thinking that you are looking directly into your monitor.  Really your monitor is now located in an infinite number of probable locations simultaneously.  

Rarely ever are these threads and discussions actually pertinent to our everyday lives, but MAN do we enjoy arguing about them. :nod:
Yes, most of the fun is in the arguement itself, but my point is that the arguement being discussed here does not encompass the entire realm of knowledge on this subject, just the western point of view. That is hardly a worldwide discussion, as Joe notes, even if the world wide web supposedly offers those opinions as well.

We are confined to this subject matter as it pertains to the opinions expressed by the Christians in this country versus the theories of Evolutionists. If any of these thoughts are correct, it must apply to the entire planet, and not the Immaculate Conceptions opined here, by Americans who believe we are either made in the image of God, or have evolved into the only species on earth who give this any thought at all.  
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Joe Vancil

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #70 on: November 28, 2005, 02:51:42 PM »
I would maintain that the absence of such folks on this particular board is merely a product of limited scope.  It's not like Derek is TRYING to compete worldwide, although he doesn't prohibit it, either.

I could have the same discussion at FanHome, where there are foreign participants, but the moment the word "ego" showed up, someone there would turn it into a Kobe Bryant thread...which I've just done here.

Thanks a lot, JoMal.

**evil grin**
 
Joe

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Offline JoMal

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #71 on: November 28, 2005, 03:27:50 PM »
Quote
I would maintain that the absence of such folks on this particular board is merely a product of limited scope.  It's not like Derek is TRYING to compete worldwide, although he doesn't prohibit it, either.

I could have the same discussion at FanHome, where there are foreign participants, but the moment the word "ego" showed up, someone there would turn it into a Kobe Bryant thread...which I've just done here.

Thanks a lot, JoMal.

**evil grin**
Ah....

Now...Creationism versus Kobe Bryantism, as a valid arguement for Intelligent Design. That comes under the Phil Jacksonist revisionism of history itself.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

rickortreat

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #72 on: November 28, 2005, 03:41:37 PM »
All I'm interested in is the Truth.  I have no problem admitting I don't know, because I DON'T.

Others apparently DO have a problem with that.  They want you to believe the way they do, no matter who logically inconsistent or unsatisfactory those answers are.

I never saw any description about the creation of the world that appeared to offer any value whatsoever- all of it just plain nonsense, including Genesis.

But these are valid questions and there are possible, correct answers.  It's just that they're beyond us, and that IS THE POINT!!!!

Offline WayOutWest

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #73 on: November 28, 2005, 04:32:10 PM »
Quote
I never saw any description about the creation of the world that appeared to offer any value whatsoever- all of it just plain nonsense, including Genesis.
 
How dare you refer to banging your own sister as nonsense!
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Ted

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OT: Dabods thread missing?
« Reply #74 on: November 28, 2005, 04:35:15 PM »
Quote
Quote
I never saw any description about the creation of the world that appeared to offer any value whatsoever- all of it just plain nonsense, including Genesis.
 
How dare you refer to banging your own sister as nonsense!
WoW, dude, there was no need to reveal that . . . keep your confused past to yourself.
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