Joe Vancil, come on down.......

[Laker Fan]

Histerical Skander!  :lol2:  :rofl:  

[Guest_Randy]

Skander,

After that last post, I'm asking you to change your avator -- perhaps a teenage mutant turtle would be a more fitting representation!

[Skandery]

And now for the real critique.  

Okay everybody, go ahead and place me in the "Are they Effe'in crazy" group of opinionated NBA enthusiasts.

First off to get something off my chest, who pre-ordained that the Phoenix Suns are going to be awesome and make up one of the top two dawgs in the Western Conference.  Because unless I've been in an opium-induced haze (with my boy Ricky), aren't they missing TWO starters.  And let's see, they're signings have included two big men who couldn't best Red Auerbach in a footrace.  Nash is a year older but no worries, our boy Amare has decided he'd like to set the offense up from the center every now and again.  Not to mention the fact that the team needs an introduction to that quaint old past-time of yore some refer to as defense.  How long must poor Shawn Marion continue to carry this team on his weary back on the defensive side of the ball.

Onto the Kings, I'll say that this team has just about as good a chance as reaching the Conference Finals as the highly vaunted Phoenix Suns.  I actually LIKE the Kings roster.  I think Bibby is a great scoring point guard who doesn't hurt the team offensive flow on his way to putting up 18 ppg.  He is still among league leaders in assists and isn't just careless with the ball when it counts.  Brad Miller is VERY UNDERRATED as a passer.  Let's remember this guy has managed to be in the top 3 centers in assists even though he played a backup role last year and although a starter, he doesn't get near the touches an O'Neal or a Webber get.  He's a tough rebounder, a high percentage shooter, a great ft shooter (for a center), a hardnosed defender, and an adequate scorer.  I think the Kings enjoy one of the best Centers in the league in the starting lineup.  Moving on to Peja, I have hopes that Peja will regain his 2003-04 glory when Webber was gone for most of the year, as Webber will be GONE for all of this year.  He is very capable of 25 ppg not to mention solid defensive rebounding from the 3 and Kings fans never have to worry about missed technicals.  

Moving on to the new acquisitions, first of all.  The Shareef pick-up is an awesome, awesome move.  This guy is 20 and 9 every night, maybe 16 and 8 if there aren't quite enough attempts to go around.  He's not fast but he is mobile, he'll get you defensive rebounds, a low-post presence, a perimeter big man to spread the lanes for Bibby and Peja, not to mention a class act.  While not a gifted passer, he is a willing passer and that is all Adelman needs for his offense.  I have high hopes for Shareef and believe he will complement the Kings style of play.  Another thing is he is a great value player in that he's not making as much as he really should be (makes up for Kenny).  This year I'll find out whether he is a great player or just a good player on a bad team.

Still more low-post problems, heeeeeeeeeeeere's Bonzi.  This guy is a question mark, but I'll tell ya.  I'd rather have a young all-star calibre question mark rather than just a question mark.  Bonzi can eat opposing guards alive in the post and when Sacramento decides to go tall ball, it will be hard for some teams to adjust.  This guy can still run the floor at his size and has a nose for getting to the line.  Yet another good defensive rebounder, Sacramento has.  They lost crowd favorite, B Jax, I love the guy but I think he is past his prime.  I haven't seen the flash or sustained production in a long, long time but who knows.  He may ressurect his career in Memphis.  Is Bonzi going to play nice??  If he doesn't, see ya later, bye!  I think that's pretty good motivation BUT Sacramento should be wary not to over-pay Bonzi next off-season SHOULD he have that great year.

So we've got all these defensive rebounders, whose gonna get us some of Bibby's and Peja's clangs?  There is where you hope Kenny earns his pay.  Kenny Thomas has skills and talent to be a double-double as the main sixth man.  When its time to hunker down and play some defense and get some rebounds, here is where I have Kenny in my lineup.  

Still don't have enough low-post capabilites and offensive rebounders, come on down Corliss.  Here's your 10 minutes for this game, go rebound Bibby's garbage and make a layup why don't ya.  

I think Sacramento is talented, deep, and well-coached.  It still amazes me how underrated a coach Rick Adelman is.  He makes two finals appearances with Kevin Duckworthless as a freakin' center, moves to the perennial loser franchise that is the Kings (sorry JoMaL) and makes them a contender in a place in history when the difference in competition between the East and West is astronomical.  

What's more is now they are younger.  Webber doesn't have too many more years, IF ANY, as an elite power forward a team can build around to seriously contend for the championship.  He's old, injured, with a slew of off-court problems and just happens not to mesh with the best pure shooter since Larry Bird.  It was time to move on.

So quote me on this and put it back in my face if I'm wrong after 82 games.  Sacramento will finish in the top 5 teams in the WC and will probably win the first round.  Anything beyond that is very possible but I won't go on record just, yet.  

So there you have it JoMaL, I (and I guess the only one on the board) actually LIKE the direction Sacramento is going in and think you'll have plenty to cheer for in the upcoming season.

[ziggy]

First of all the Webber deal was a great deal for Sacramento.  They got rid of a player who no longer is a dominate player, but was getting paid like one.  They may not have got a huge amount of talent in return, but they didn't give up a huge talent, just a huge salary.  Thomas and Skinner will be important contributors.  Webber was an albotross, and Petrie was right to move on from that era, and start building a new era.  The Kings would never win with Webber in the same role.

The Bonzi deal is a reasonable 1 season risk, but in the end he will disappoint.  His numbers have dropped every year for the last 4.  The probability that he will take his game up several notches is very small.  Then again the expectation of him on this team is not to be one who carry's the team, but is a complimentary role player.  In the end he probably won't make a lot of difference, and it usually takes more than one year for his baggage to get in the way.  The Kings can use him as a stop gap, and try and sign someone who fits better next year.

After watching Rahim for a year and a half, I have discovered why he has never been on a winner.  I wouldn't say he doesn't have heart, but he doesn't have the intestinal fortitiude that great players have.  He is not a good defender, and he doesn't make big plays.  He will put up good numbers, and people will think he is not one of the problems because of that, but he will be one of the problems.  He will be a good guy, lots of character, but no passion and no fire.  He is a much better fantasy player than he is an NBA player.

With all that said the Kings have retained, Bibby, Miller and Peja.  Bibby has guts and passion, and he is a very good NBA PG.  Brad Miller is one of the 4/5 best C in the NBA, and he can provide all the passing ball movement stuff that Webber offered, without the demand to score and to be the man.  Peja is the key to all of this though.  He has lots of talent, but lets be honest he is very much like Shareef.  Lots of really pretty stats, but does he have the heart and guts to lead a team.  Every team needs to big time leaders, and the Kings have one in Bibby, but Wells and Rahim aren't that type of guy, and Miller is not the kind of player who will make big plays.  If Peja steps it up then they are top 2 or 3 in the West.  if he doesn't then they aren't.

I also agree with Skander on Phoenix.  They will be good, becuase they kept their 3 best players, but Johnson and QRich played roles that allowed those other 3 to really raise their game to another level.  Phoenix definetely could take a step backward in 05-06.

[Guest_Randy]

Phoenix,

Phoenix lost ONE important starter -- Hunter wasn't a great starter, Kurt Thomas is a much better player and will allow Amare to play PF.  The Suns STILL hurt on frontcourt back-up players -- they still haven't addressed that need.

The Suns REALLY hurt themselves by losing JJ (Richardson isn't even in the same ballpark as JJ and he is getting paid too much for his services).  It wasn't all Phoenix's fault but some of it is.  JJ really helped spread the floor for the Suns -- Finley would have helped that area too but now the Suns are going to have to scramble to find a decent SG.  

However, don't forget that that Suns still have Jimmy Jackson (what a HUGE pick-up this guy was).  I like him off the bench more than starting but he can do it.  

What the Kings lost in the backcourt, they gained in the frontcourt (Thomas is a FAR better rebounder than Hunter is).

[JoMal]

Great assessments, guys.

I would mention that the Wells 'experiment' has more upside for one year then you might think, ziggy. He is in a contract year. That alone makes him a better acquisition then his history might indicate it should. As for SAR, this is when we all can really find out how much dedication he shows, because the Kings need him to pull good numbers and to be a solid front line stopper. He has a great opportunity to show off his abilities here, including that elusive "heart".

The Kings squad certainly is looking deep when before there were plenty of holes needing filling. Petrie acquired Wells and SAR, both of whom he WANTED to acquire from the beginning of summer.

He also picked up a solid back up point guard who is more known for his defense in Jason Hart, and most intriquing of all is this undrafted rookie point guard from Utah State named Ronnie Price, who he signed to a contract after seeing him for only two games in the summer league.

While not necessarily guaranteed a roster spot come the start of the season, this still is somewhat amazing considering he did it BEFORE the Wells or SAR's deals were initiated. I have to see what Petrie saw in this kid for myself.  

[JoMal]

<raising hands in defiance and disgust>

The Kings suck, their coach sucks, their city sucks, and their cowbells suck, but not as much as the Lakers suck...

<solemn pause of contemplation on the woes of the Jazz>

....good god the amount of suckage on the pacific coast line is, like, overwhelming.  







 



sorry JoMaL, I tried, I really did.......but I just couldn't help myself.

Skandery, you are soooooooo weak....and condescending.

I ask for one little favor and instead I get creativity.

What's this board coming to.

[Skandery]

Phoenix lost ONE important starter

Randy,

I assume you're talking about JJ rather than Q. Rich, because I'm going to give you enough credit that you realized Steven Hunter was NOT a starter.  

I agree that Joe Johnson was the bigger loss.  Doesn't change the fact that Richardson was a LOSS.  You're talking about the second best SG rebounder in the league and someone who made more three pointers than anyone else in the Association.  I think Phoenix lost two key elements to their game, and haven't done anything to replace them.  

[Guest_Randy]

Skander,

You are right -- at the beginning of the season last year they started Hunter at C with Amare at PF (Marion at SF, JJ at SG and Nash at PG).  That line-up didn't last very long.  Of course, I never liked Richardson in the starting line-up and I didn't like JJ at SF or Marion at SF.  The Kings need to do something about their starting SG position but I like Thomas at Center, Amare at PF and Marion at SF -- now they need a solid SG -- too bad they couldn't have gotten Finley, he really would have helped them a lot on both ends of the court.

Phoenix REALLY needed to work on their rebounding -- and they did so in adding Kurt Thomas.  Thomas isn't a star by any means but he is great crashing the boards and playing solid defense.  I think he is going to help the Suns tremendously -- however, the loss of JJ is going to REALLY hurt the Suns!

[Skandery]

Of course, I never liked Richardson in the starting line-up and I didn't like JJ at SF or Marion at SF.

Whether you or anyone else liked the lineup or not, didn't stop them from having the best record in the NBA.

Phoenix REALLY needed to work on their rebounding -- and they did so in adding Kurt Thomas. Thomas isn't a star by any means but he is great crashing the boards and playing solid defense.

I agree.  BUT whether Thomas' brand of skills will complement the Suns run-n-gun style moreso than either Richardson's or Johnson's remains to be seen.  I'm not optimistic.  

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some thing I forgot to mention in my previous assessment of the Kings.  I think not re-signing Jim Jackson that year (3 yrs ago?) was outright shameful and a horrible management decision.  But in the discussion as it pertains to this offseason, that's neither here nor there.  

[Lurker]

Another sign of your great memory Randy.

On opening night...check NBA.com....Phoenix started Nash, JJ, QRich, Marion & Stoudemire.

Hunter started 3 games....two of which were at the end of March because Amare was injured.  I don't have enough time to track down the 3rd game.

[Guest_Randy]

Another sign of your great memory Randy.

On opening night...check NBA.com....Phoenix started Nash, JJ, QRich, Marion & Stoudemire.

Hunter started 3 games....two of which were at the end of March because Amare was injured.  I don't have enough time to track down the 3rd game.

 :rofl:

Okay, so now my memory is as poor as yours is, huh?

[Lurker]

:rofl:

Okay, so now my memory is as poor as yours is, huh?

Obviously.

 :up:  

[msc]

First off, there are some very insightful posts on this thread and I've really enjoyed reading through them all, so thanks to everyone for that.  

I don't want to re-hash what's already been covered but I did want to comment on SAR.  Overall, I think he is a good pickup by the Kings ... only time will tell, but I think he can fit it to a motion offense and also add more of a two man, inside-out game with Bibby/Peja and even numbnuts, errr, I mean Wells.  There have been a few comments, I think it was ziggy, who said he's good, but he just doesn't have heart.  I haven’t watched him enough in the NBA to agree or disagree with that, but I see it a little differently.  I had the pleasure of watching SAR play when he as at Cal and I was at Oregon.  5 mins in to the game at Mac Court and I turned to my buddy and said, "this guy will be playing in the NBA next year" (it was his freshman season).  I was right, hey, there's a first time for everything ... but he was one of those collegiate players that was clearly a man among boys and ready for the next level.  I haven't been able to watch him as much as I'd like to in the NBA, but from what I've seen his main problem is that he's a 'tweener'.  In college he was clearly a 4 and an exceptional one at that.  But in the NBA I really think his natural position is the 3 but he has been pushed to the 4 by his respective teams out of necessity.  He's good with his back to the basket and a solid rebounder, but he doesn’t have the frame to dominate at the 4 and he's a little to big and slow relative to most of the 3's in the league.  

What can I say about Bonzi that hasn’t already been said?  The guy is a self-centered, maggot with a sense of entitlement.  The worst kind.  But I tend to agree with those who feel this is a decent gamble for 1 season and that is SOLELY due to the fact that it is his contract year.  Bonzi is a mental-midget, but even he MIGHT be able to rub his 3 brain cells together and garner enough mental capacity to realize that this is truly his last chance to secure himself a decent contract for the remainder of his career.  Since NASA isn’t waiting in the wings with a job offer upon retirement, Bonzi better get his act together.  You got that, Bonzi?  That means no flipping off fans or cursing them out.  You better not try that in Sac anyway b/c those mullet-sporting, rednecks will take you out behind the barn and teach you a lesson  :rolleyes: .  If he does manage to get his act together, the rest of the league better look out b/c the kid does have some God-given talents in the open floor and with his back to the basket.  He can create match up problems for just about every team in the league when he brings his “A” game.

I think the Kings are in pretty good shape next year.  Brad Miller is a great center, IMO, especially considering there is only one dominating center in the league.  This guy can pass, shoot the 18-footer and is a solid rebounder.  There was a stretch last season as I recall that he was the leading scorer for several games in a row and was out there getting his teammates fired-up.  I think he’s a fiery player with a ton of heart and would love to have him on my team.  I’d like to see him avoid injury and have a great season.

Before the season starts, I think the Kings are a lock for the 4-6 seed-range in the West.  If things come together during the season and they gel … who knows?  I don’t see them, or anyone else for that matter, getting past the Spurs, but I think they could very well upset the likes of Phoenix, Dallas and Houston in the playoffs.  
 

[JoMal]

Thanks, msc. You do reinforce the general opinion about how the Kings will do this year. With all the changes the Kings have gone through, it takes a bit of time to see how it will settle, but SAR should add some needed diversity up front, and Wells, he could possibly hold it together for a year and I would not mind if the club just goes in another direction after that.

Since NASA isn’t waiting in the wings with a job offer upon retirement, Bonzi better get his act together. You got that, Bonzi? That means no flipping off fans or cursing them out. You better not try that in Sac anyway b/c those mullet-sporting, rednecks will take you out behind the barn and teach you a lesson.

How can you tell we have rednecks with the mullet hanging over it?

At least you did not mention our lack of eyebrows as well. You see, since our hairlines start at just above our eye lids.......