Author Topic: Joe Vancil, come on down.......  (Read 6202 times)

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2005, 04:03:01 PM »
Quote
Quote
Are we cool?
You old farts are definately NOT cool.
Quote
It's really too bad we differ on our team loyalties (why you like the Raiders is still a mystery to me), because sometimes it causes us to hit a little hard when we are on the defensive, as we Laker fans are right now. Again, sorry if you took my smack talk personally, I really didn't mean it that way.


Whoa up there Dan, let me clarify a few things for you, and I guess that includes westkoast, Randy, and msc, and to a lesser degree, to WoW and non-Laker posters as well.

I am NOT in any way, shape, or form, bothered by anything you guys say to me, or at me, or through me to get at the Kings, ever. I thoroughly enjoy stirring the Laker caldron and I believe most of you "get" that.

What I am really into is getting a thread to perk up a bit, which 143 posts later, apparently happened.

Not to say I wasn't correct in my assessments, but that is for another thread.




And WoW, I may be an old fart now, but I once was very cool. But being on dabod's board for so long posting with you guys tends to bring the old fart aspects to the fore, as you well know.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2005, 04:03:36 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline westkoast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8624
    • View Profile
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2005, 04:04:47 PM »
You guys really think Chris Webber would still be the choice for a focal point in Sac-Town?  Chris still believes he can score with the best of em!!!  Vlade's crisp passing and ability to find open men was a contagious disease in sactown....but for some reason Chris found a vaccine after his injury.  For that reason alone I dont believe he would be the right guy to be the focal point of the offense.  I would love to pin that on his injuries but you would think since he cant quite jump as well that he would want to pass the ball to have to do even less running/jumping.

Look at the people the Kings have and just think of the damage they could do with a post player who could pass well or a perimeter player who really could create looks for others.  IMO they are one play maker away from shooting back to the top of the WC.

 
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Guest_Randy

  • Guest
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2005, 04:34:55 PM »
Woah, who said that BMiller wasn't a very good center?  That's a pretty stupid statement, IMO.  Granted, the talent at the center position isn't the greatest and he definately didn't have a great season but he was also injured and the Kings are still a team in transition.

For all the comments that you make, JoMal, about how much better a deal the Kings got than the Lakers, I just don't buy it.  You traded a starter and got a bunch of role players.  The Lakers traded for 2 starters and 1 throw in.  While I don't think the Lakers got what they should have for Shaq -- I definately don't see how the Kings did better in that trade.  The Kings got 1 rebounder who hustles and plays solid defense (but has ZERO offensive abilities -- see Mark Madsen, etc.) and they also got Kenny Thomas who is a very good rebounder (pound for pound) but is way undersized and can't defend the mammoth PF in the Western Conference (okay, he couldn't defend the PF's in the EC either) and Corliss "I can score but don't ask me to play defense" Williamson (umm, there is a reason this guy has been traded so many times by so many teams).  While these ARE decent players to come off the bench -- I'm not sure how you think they compare to Lamar Odom, Caron Butler (these two ARE starters) and Brian Grant (okay, this guy was thrown in).  

As for the Webber trade?  I'm not sure that I hold this against Petrie -- he didn't have many options and it was obvious that CWebb is literally on his last leg.  It was also becoming apparent that all was not cool in SacTown between Peja and Webber (hmm, that scenario does sound familiar) and SacTown WANTS (smart of them) to keep Peja.  So trade Webber for whatever you can get and see if you can keep making some trades.  That Petrie couldn't get a better deal is also not surprising seeing that nobody wants to deal with Webber's contract (only five teams have those kind of pockets -- Portland (they are cutting back), Dallas (also cutting back), New York (who would the Kings want from that squad), Philly (here is the only real shot) and the Kings (who are also cutting back).  I think Petrie breaks almost even on this deal.

Bad moves:
  1)  Letting JJ go (said it before and say it again -- many times JJ was one of the BEST players on the SacTown squad and yet the Kings let him go -- because they say "they can't afford him."  Umm, sorry but the Rockets pick him up DIRT cheap (the Kings could have resigned him huh?  Something smells fishy!!!).
  2a)  Telling everyone that you can't "afford" Vlade (and gutting him from the roster -- hey, keep the guy on your IR for the whole season)
  2b)  Signing Greg Ostertag after 2a.  HORRIBLE idea anyway you look at it.
  3)  Not resigning Cuttino Mobley.  Mobley actually WANTED to stay in SacTown until the Kings failed to offer him any incentives to stay -- after it became apparent he wasn't wanted (zero offer from the Kings), then he looked for greener pastures.  Mobley DOES like to shoot but he is an underrated defender and that's more than you can say of Bibby or Peja.
  4)  Trading away Bobby Jackson (umm, you just lost a defender) for Bonzi Wells (his past two teams have had huge goodbye parties for this guy -- two weeks after he left -- and Wells wasn't invited).  Bonzi is not only a cancer but a horrible defender and BJax is a better offensive player than Wells is, IMO.  


I like the signing of SAR but it would have been a MUCH better signing if the Kings had a little defense in their backcourt -- it looks as if the Kings are going back to the days of "Run TMC" -- where they simply try to outscore their opponents rather than playing any defense at all.  

Who is going to play the pivot to run the offense through?  BMill is the obvious choice but he isn't nearly the passer that Vlade or Webber are -- so the motion offense is going to suffer.  A motion offense certainly doesn't fit into the abilities of SAR -- he likes the rock in his hand and isolation.  


The Kings are going to be interesting this year -- because while they DO have a talented line-up:
  PG - Bibby
  SG - Wells
  SF - Peja
  PF - SAR
  C  - BMiller

Not a bad roster talent-wise although I'm not sure it's much better than one with Webber, Mobley and BJax.  However, the questions lie in chemistry and how the Kings plan to orchestrate their offense.  There are some big questions on both of those areas.

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2005, 04:45:17 PM »
Quote
It does seem like the wheels were comming off the Kings last year.  Year after year the Kings seem to make the perfect move in player personnel.  Getting Webber and Vlade as their core looked brilliant.  The acquisition of Bibby seemed to be the key peice to make a serious title run.  They added quality verterans like Christie and the Jackson.  The addition of Brad Miller seemed to extend their window of opportunity for a title since it seemed Vlade was on the decline.

This year they are without Webber, Vlade, Christie and BOTH Jackson.  While they've mananged to hold things together better than the Lak....err....uhm... the worst case scenario, they are still a shell of their former selves.

Still there is hope to go deep into the playoffs.  If Miller can get back to his level of play in Indy and SAR can step in and make a solid contribution it's a good team.  Had they not lost Mobley I'd say they had a shot at upsetting ONE of the two big horses, namely PHX.
Well, WoW, I am <ahem> somewhat <urp>, ah, in, you know, the "A" word with you (that would be be..... :drunk: in AGREEMENT)

But Petrie pulling the right players out of no where hasn't been enough. The problem lies elsewhere.

Playoff coaching.

I find no fault with Adelman developing the most competitive and offensive-minded team that the NBA has seen over the last six years, consistently pushing the competition during the regular season. But come playoff time, he shortens his rotation and essentially kills off his best players, who just completed an 82 game grind of a schedule. When injuries inevitably hit, you get a rusty player trying to catch up to playoff stanima immediately. By the fourth quarter of games, his starters who are still healthy are all sagging under the relentless onslaught of fresh players being thrown at them all game long by more astute playoff coaching.

Mobley is a more interesting issue.

This is what I have heard happens in Sacramento at the start of the off-season. They have a group meeting (at The Palms, in Vegas) with Adelman, Petrie, and the Maloofs. Petrie tells everyone what the salary landscape is going to be like and puts out the guestimate of the new cap, then listens to Adelman give his wish list. The Maloofs then tell Petrie the limit he can spend to achieve Adelman's wishes, and what Geoff also thinks would help the team. Petrie is not authorized to go beyond that limit without an okay from the Maloofs, but up to that limit, they leave the entire basketball decison with Geoff, including trades to achieve the goal.

Geoff, as we now know, wanted two players for the Kings. (There were others, some of whom he got, but they don't matter as much).

Turns out, and you can take this any way you want because I have yet to see how it all will play out going into the season, the two players were Bonzi Wells and Abdur-Rahim. And he got them both. This, of course, meant he was not going to pursue Mobley, directly due to the Maloof's instructions about the limits to which Petrie could resign him. That put the Kings right out of the market for the Cat from the onset and there was never going to be an offer made. Also, Mobley told them he was not coming back anyway, so this was not much a debate for very long - the Kings were never going to overpay for him to exceed the cap and his interests were to play near a movie town, like LA.

The Jimmy Jackson decision was strictly based on this Maloof salary constraint, so it turned into the same thing, except that Jackson DID want to resign with the Kings.

Divac told the Maloofs, and Petrie, and Adelman, that he was interested in playing nearer his LA home if he could, so was unlikely going to come back regardless. Petrie did have some money to offer, with the Maloof's blessing because they wanted Vlade back as well. But to let you know, it was Vlade's decision not to take that offer to come back, not anyone in the Kings' organization. The money was reasonable, but the Lakers offered a bit more and he wanted to go to LA or he probably would have resigned up here.

Webber was becoming a very visable liability on defense. He simply was not going to score nearly enough to overcome his inability to stop anyone on the other team from doing whatever they wanted. On a team that played reasonable team defense, this could have been compensated for, maybe. On the Kings???

We got some good players back, but we were not going to get better with any of these guys taking starter minutes at center or forward. As bench components, however,they look much better.

Bobby Jackson was the sacrifice we made to get Wells, and boy am I nervous about this acquisition above all others. Bonzi may be in his contract year and therefore will need to play on his best behavior, but seriously, do any of you think a leopard like him will change his spots? I am hoping he is just a one-year deal and Petrie lets him go when Wells is looking for that long-term deal next summer. He is a two guard, afterall. The NBA is loaded with a good number of those, plus our last two #1 draft picks are both best suited as two's. We can rent Bonzi for the one year in which he really has to rein in his 'tude.

However, losing Bobby Jackson.......... He has always wanted to start regularly in the NBA and he may get the chance now. But what did the Kings give up with his trade to Memphis? I totally agree that this one is going to hurt the Kings. Bobby was a force off the bench (which I feel he is better suited to do then start), though his body is starting to crack from the punishment the NBA inflicts on players who play the game like Jackson does. I personnally hope he stays healthy after three down years for him.

Overall, I feel close to how I did going into the season last year, when I had no clue as to how they were going to perform with the changes. I can venture that Adelman once again will get the most out of his new players, probably exceed everyone's expectations, including mine, because the history (let's play that game with the Kings as well) has shown Adelman is a player's coach, for the most part and if anyone can get a smile out of playing time from Thomas and Wells, it surely will be Rick.

But this team is not built for competing with the best of the West come the playoffs, and the same history tells us Adelman is not the coach to get them to the Western finals healthy and intact. Beat up with an extended injury list is more likely.  
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline westkoast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8624
    • View Profile
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2005, 04:57:36 PM »
Quote
Quote
Quote
Are we cool?
You old farts are definately NOT cool.
Quote
It's really too bad we differ on our team loyalties (why you like the Raiders is still a mystery to me), because sometimes it causes us to hit a little hard when we are on the defensive, as we Laker fans are right now. Again, sorry if you took my smack talk personally, I really didn't mean it that way.


Whoa up there Dan, let me clarify a few things for you, and I guess that includes westkoast, Randy, and msc, and to a lesser degree, to WoW and non-Laker posters as well.

I am NOT in any way, shape, or form, bothered by anything you guys say to me, or at me, or through me to get at the Kings, ever. I thoroughly enjoy stirring the Laker caldron and I believe most of you "get" that.

What I am really into is getting a thread to perk up a bit, which 143 posts later, apparently happened.

Not to say I wasn't correct in my assessments, but that is for another thread.




And WoW, I may be an old fart now, but I once was very cool. But being on dabod's board for so long posting with you guys tends to bring the old fart aspects to the fore, as you well know.
I figured as much and as you know I like to poke at you, even though you get the best of me (a-hole lol) sometimes.  You dont seem like the kind of guy who would get worked up over text.  Im sure the wine and shrooms from the cow patties keep your mind on other more important things.....like a multi colored sky and intense wine-o hangovers.

I did have to point out that everything is different for Laker fans.  While I agree there are PLENTY of idiot, jerky, moronic Laker posters who act in a certain fashion that makes your blood boil.......I dont think those Laker fans exist here.  I think you can agree that the Laker fans here, while we do take our shots, are not the beat-our-chests-your-team-is-the-worst-ever-why-should-I-ever-give-you-props kind of posters.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2005, 04:58:21 PM by westkoast »
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2005, 05:12:57 PM »
Okay, westkoast and Randy, you are shaming me. You both posted very insightful thoughts regarding the Kings and the judgements of their various moves.

wk, the biggest issue with Webber you hinted at. He needed the ball to look reasonably affective out on the court, whether that meant passing it or shooting it. Adelman wants his offense to run threw a post player and in his prime, few big men in the League were as good at this as Webber. But he could not do anything at all on defense and with that salary.........

I still can't believe Petrie managed to get what he did for him, considering that contract. Sorry Philly fans, but NBA players who have gone through this injury in the past have never come close to matching their game from before getting hurt. Addition by subtraction, to say the least, and while you can judge this move as detrimental to the Kings in the short term, long-term it eventually will give so much more flexibility to Sacramento, it isn't even funny. As for Philadelphia, as long as the team defense can cover for him, he will at least complement Iverson on offense, but his game is with the ball, period. In his hands and with him initiating things from the post.

THAT has to be understood if you ever even want to glimpse just a bit of the C-Webb from before. He can't (I am believing) PHYSICALLY play off the ball on offense and not get in someones way.

Randy, no arguement on just about all you stated. I still want to wake up one morning to hear that the Kings got Jimmy Jackson back, somehow.

B-Jax for Wells????? <sigh> I just hope Petrie knows what he is doing because if this blows up in his face, all the good moves he made prior to it will be virtually negated. I keep coming back to the point that Geoff WANTED Bonzi as his first choice in replacing Mobley. He wanted Bonzi!!!!!!!!

The only thing that keeps me staying the course on this one is Petrie's history. Talk about clinging to the past.  

I have not heard much about Mobley wanting to stay in Sacramento. He told the team as soon as he could he was not likely to come back, for personal reasons.

Brad Miller is an underrated passer. But because Vlade, in particular, was so good, Brad is hurting just by the comparison. Unlike Webber, Miller does not demand that the offense go through him on every possession. With Webber, there really were no surprises when he was on the court, but Miller and his teammates move the ball around more.

Ostertag no longer is with the Kings, like he ever really was. Greg, we hardly knew you, but at least you are going back to where they know you only too well. Joe, I KNOW you despise the Kings for giving you back him more then anything else.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2005, 05:14:09 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Laker Fan

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1255
    • View Profile
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2005, 05:33:46 PM »
Trust me JoMal, these young cats don't know cool, they think a rappin', bling bling wearin' thug basketball player is cool, you'll have to excuse their narrow field of reference.

To me cool is sitting with good friends in some little Jazz club enjoying your favorite "adult bverage" (for jazz I drink wine) listening to some serious Jazz, and who walks on stage but the late great Grover Washington Jr. and does a couple sets with the local jazz band you were already excited to see, THAT is cool! Or you could exchange the jazz club for a blues bar and the wine for some southern bourbon, sour-mash style (Makers Mark, neat) and just groove with some raunchy blues guitar licks and discover some kid you just KNOW is going somewhere, kids these days don't understand times like those.

Cool is knowing who you are is just fine you and not having to live up to anyone's expectations except your baby's and have her love you for 24 years for who you are, and having your kids know they can always count on you.

Cool is knowing you can ride the legs off kids more than half your age anytime they are foolish enough to try to prove otherwise.

Old farts, pleeeeeeaaaaaase!
Dan

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2005, 05:41:10 PM »
Quote
I figured as much and as you know I like to poke at you, even though you get the best of me (a-hole lol) sometimes.  You dont seem like the kind of guy who would get worked up over text.  Im sure the wine and shrooms from the cow patties keep your mind on other more important things.....like a multi colored sky and intense wine-o hangovers.

I did have to point out that everything is different for Laker fans.  While I agree there are PLENTY of idiot, jerky, moronic Laker posters who act in a certain fashion that makes your blood boil.......I dont think those Laker fans exist here.  I think you can agree that the Laker fans here, while we do take our shots, are not the beat-our-chests-your-team-is-the-worst-ever-why-should-I-ever-give-you-props kind of posters.
Man, that is so deep, westkoast. Especially references to the 'shroomy sky.

While it may not be apparent (the written word on a computer screen is so literal), I really DO like posting with you guys. I am irksome by nature, so when a good opportunity presents itself, and there are so many with the Lakers, I sometimes just shake with anticipation on chosing one.

And none of the Laker posters here come close to fitting your assessment of how the fans of some teams discuss whatever problem they create for themselves.

But bear in mind, I am a bit outnumbered here.  
 
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline westkoast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8624
    • View Profile
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #23 on: August 31, 2005, 05:47:21 PM »
"wk, the biggest issue with Webber you hinted at. He needed the ball to look reasonably affective out on the court, whether that meant passing it or shooting it. Adelman wants his offense to run threw a post player and in his prime, few big men in the League were as good at this as Webber. But he could not do anything at all on defense and with that salary........."

IMO the best passing big men were in order:  Vlade, Chris, Shaq.  Chris' passing really made the Kings a very fun team to watch and at the same time made them very successfull.  I have yet to figure out why Chris ever got away from that.  You dont lose passing skills or court vision.  Those are two things that dont fade with injury so I have a hard time pinning all that on his physical limitations.  Being a defensive liability....dont get me started.  Correct me if I am wrong but I feel some of that was due to lack of motivation moreso than it was he couldnt move (at least pre-injury).  You know the whole 'I score dawg, I dont need to play D' mentality.

I was going to say the Kings need a post player or a perimeter player that has to be the focus of the defense to allow Peja to roam and Bibby to float....until my brain turned back on and realized Rahim was now suiting up for you guys.  He SHOULD solve the problem of the  Kings spacing for the shooters.   If Adleman can get Rahim to focus a little bit more on passing instead of backing down opponents I think the Kings have a legit shot at getting deeper in the WC playoffs.  Adleman's motion offense is really a beauty when ran properly.  Rahim  doesnt even need to be half as good as Chris in the post passing wise because IMO he has a little bit more firepower with this group of players if they are running the offense like Adleman set it up.

One thing I do see as a potential problem is ball movement with Wells/Rahim.   Bonzi holding onto the ball too much playing one on one and Rahim doing the same with his back to the basket.  Bibby is not really a slasher nor can he really create his own shot.  He is however a good shooter, especially when he gets a solid screen (ahem Rahim)  Peja, well as good of a shooter as he is, if he doesnt get the space he needs he turns into some other guy ive never seen before.  They are very good offensive players and when in the groove will smoke teams like Ricky Williams smokes marijuana.  If any coach can force these guys to move the ball around more it would be Adleman.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2005, 05:55:34 PM by westkoast »
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #24 on: August 31, 2005, 06:01:14 PM »
Quote
Trust me JoMal, these young cats don't know cool, they think a rappin', bling bling wearin' thug basketball player is cool, you'll have to excuse their narrow field of reference.

To me cool is sitting with good friends in some little Jazz club enjoying your favorite "adult bverage" (for jazz I drink wine) listening to some serious Jazz, and who walks on stage but the late great Grover Washington Jr. and does a couple sets with the local jazz band you were already excited to see, THAT is cool! Or you could exchange the jazz club for a blues bar and the wine for some southern bourbon, sour-mash style (Makers Mark, neat) and just groove with some raunchy blues guitar licks and discover some kid you just KNOW is going somewhere, kids these days don't understand times like those.

Cool is knowing who you are is just fine you and not having to live up to anyone's expectations except your baby's and have her love you for 24 years for who you are, and having your kids know they can always count on you.

Cool is knowing you can ride the legs off kids more than half your age anytime they are foolish enough to try to prove otherwise.

Old farts, pleeeeeeaaaaaase!
Well, Dan, it seems we DO share much in common.

A cool jazz club or blues club???....with a good wine in one and (let's not kid ourselves) a very cool shot of Lagavulin or Bunnahabhain in the other (neat, of course)? My assessment of the Laker culture has just been elevated.
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #25 on: August 31, 2005, 06:14:33 PM »
Quote
Correct me if I am wrong but I feel some of that was due to lack of motivation moreso than it was he couldnt move (at least pre-injury).  You know the whole 'I score dawg, I dont need to play D' mentality.

I was going to say the Kings need a post player or a perimeter player that has to be the focus of the defense to allow Peja to roam and Bibby to float....until my brain turned back on and realized Rahim was now suiting up for you guys.
Webber never was a great defender, but he could play very good team defense and he rotated well  - - - at times brilliantly well.

That capability completely vanished with his knee injury. It was so painful to watch. He offers no resistance at all to drives up the lane.

But understand it was not for lack of trying. I can't think that anyone who ever worked harder to come back and earn his money then C-Webb. I don't want anyone here to suggest he did not play defense because he felt he did not need to. Webber really is a great student of the game and he was aware more then anyone on the court which opposing player was being the problem and it was often Webber who would get on Christie's or Peja's case if he were their man, because Webber would rotate help if it were needed.

So if he is not stopping his man, you have to assess that work ethic into the equation and come up with his being incapable any longer of controlling his man on defense. A tragety, but a too common occurance for so many once great NBA players.  

SAR is not known for offensive skills that include good passing, is he? That is a question as much as anything because I really don't know. I remember him being a force near the basket, rebounding the ball well, and having reasonably good hands. But he is probably going to be a finisher offensively, I have to think and the offensive movement of the ball will be Brad and Bibby's job.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2005, 06:15:07 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline JoMal

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3361
    • View Profile
    • http://
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #26 on: August 31, 2005, 06:40:19 PM »
Speaking of Webber, his wallet just became $100,000 thinner, and he should feel fortunate about it:


http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-7...ov=ap&type=lgns
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline westkoast

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8624
    • View Profile
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #27 on: August 31, 2005, 06:53:41 PM »
"SAR is not known for offensive skills that include good passing, is he? That is a question as much as anything because I really don't know. I remember him being a force near the basket, rebounding the ball well, and having reasonably good hands. But he is probably going to be a finisher offensively, I have to think and the offensive movement of the ball will be Brad and Bibby's job"

He isnt known for his passing, which is why I said I think ball movement *may* become a problem for the Kings.  They have alot of weapons on the offensive end but Wells/Rahim arent exactly known for their passing or ball movement.   The great part about having Vlade up there was that his passing really was contagious.  Once the players saw how much easier it was all around to make a good pass for an easy bucket they all started to do it.   Which player is going to fill that role?  I think that is a question that went unanswered since the begging of last year.

The thing is that knowing when to shift the ball and just passing in general are not things that cannot be easily taught by a good offensive-minded coach (or coaching staff).  Adleman IMO is the perfect coach to get them into that mindset.  If he cant do it I dont think many other coaches could.    They (the coaching staff) wont be able to teach them court vision, as that is god given, but he can get them all on the same page.  Having an idea of how guys like to move without the ball does loads.  I think we've all witnessed that by playing pick up ball with the same guys for a few weeks.
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Guest_Randy

  • Guest
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #28 on: August 31, 2005, 09:59:57 PM »
If the Kings want to continue their motion offense (which WAS a thing of beauty to watch), then you wrongly signed and traded for two players -- SAR and Wells are BOTH isolation players -- they like the ball in their hands to create for themselves -- very seldom for their teammates.  You want to say that Mobley didn't want to pass the ball -- I think Mobley is not only a better passer but a more willing passer than SAR and Wells.  Mobley assists are much better than either of these two players -- and he was a better outside shooter (3rd in NBA in 3pt%).  

Don't get me wrong, I think the Kings NEED SAR and with the loss of Webber it was a GREAT pick-up -- Wells is a completely different story!  He's a waste of a trade -- esp. when that player is BJax (okay, he might be older but he gives a tremendous lift from the bench and is a great defender).  

I think the Kings are going to have to scrap their motion offense and work on pick-and-roll and isolation plays.  Perhaps an in-and-out game between SAR and Peja/Bibby -- I don't see BMiller having the success with this squad and talent with the motion offense.

Offline Skandery

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1710
    • MSN Messenger - skandery27@hotmail.com
    • View Profile
    • Email
Joe Vancil, come on down.......
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2005, 11:45:48 AM »
<raising hands in defiance and disgust>

The Kings suck, their coach sucks, their city sucks, and their cowbells suck, but not as much as the Lakers suck...

<solemn pause of contemplation on the woes of the Jazz>

....good god the amount of suckage on the pacific coast line is, like, overwhelming.  







 



:D sorry JoMaL, I tried, I really did.......but I just couldn't help myself.

 
"But guys like us, we don't pay attention to the polls. We know that polls are just a collection of statistics that reflect what people are thinking in 'reality'. And reality has a well-known liberal bias."