Joe Vancil, come on down.......

[JoMal]

In another thread, Joe wrote:

Tell you what: when we start a thread about the recent Kings' signings, I'll equally bad-mouth anyone who wants to talk about the struggles of the Lakers as justification for the mismanagement of the Kings' franchise. Fair enough?

I think Sacramento has done some INCREDIBLY stupid things recently. Start that thread up, and I'll be glad to detail them.

So I am starting that thread. I have nothing to be bothered about with any discussion regarding how the Kings fared in the off-season, or how or why they made the personnel decisions in the last 12 months.

But if you do make these comments, Joe, I fully expect you to follow the Laker poster's lead, by including such commentary as, "Though the Kings blew it by not resigning Maurice Evans, this is grossly better then what the Lakers did when they..<put in whatever Laker personnel mistake of recent vintage is apppropriate>..."

God forbid we get another 140 post thread on this topic, so be sure NOT to inflict us with any hidden agendas about how you feel about the Jazz when you talk about the Kings. You know how clever the posters are around here in picking up on that secret innuendo where you transfer how you feel about Utah on another team.

[westkoast]

Awww a thread made partially in spite of comments I made.  Im so touched JoMaL.

And yet again, youve failed to get things thru your thick skull.  Maybe the trees and methane gas are causing some blockage??  No matter what the thread topic originally is, if its about the Lakers in some shape or form it turns into a Laker bashing thread.  Shots are taken on both sides....but 2-3 years ago it was the Laker fans beating their chest and now its 'trying to take the heat off their own team'   When you make comments they are wholesome and not any of the above.  Only Laker fans beat their chest or would like to take heat off their own team.

As for your little snide comment about hidden agendas...you said that buddy.  Not me.  Those were your own words were they not?  Did you not say to a Laker fan not to turn it into a Kings bashing thread so us Laker fans can take the attention off the Lakers dumb decisions???  Correct me if im not close here.  If any of our clever posters were picking up on hidden agendas it was you.  YOU made the comment.   So save the cowshit for another time.

[JoMal]

And yet again, youve failed to miss the point.

I have failed to miss the point???

I don't know whether to be flattered or if I should just continue to be patronizing.

Which is no matter what the thread topic originally is, if its about the Lakers it turns into a Laker bashing thread.  As for your little snide comment about hidden agendas...you said that buddy.  Not me.  Those were your own words were they not?  Did you not say not to turn it into a Kings bashing thread so us Laker fans can take the attention off the Lakers dumb decisions???  Correct me if im not close here.

westkoast, you are so blind sometimes, but of course I will correct you when you are wrong. What are buddys for, after all?

Can't you tell the utter and complete difference in what I am suggesting as opposed to your interpretation? I am saying to START by bashing the Kings, then COMPARE those decisions to the ludicrious decisions of the Lakers, NOT by STARTING OUT  as a "bashing thread" against the Lakers.

Sheeesh.

[JoMal]

NOT by STARTING OUT  as a "bashing thread" against the Lakers.

 

Sorry, what I meant was to not let this thread evolve INTO a bashing thread about the Lakers.

See, preface the comments by stating the KINGS personnel problem FIRST, and THEN mentioning the Laker issues.

That way it can't evolve into another Laker bashing series of posts.  

[westkoast]

NOT by STARTING OUT  as a "bashing thread" against the Lakers.

 

Sorry, what I meant was to not let this thread evolve INTO a bashing thread about the Lakers.

See, preface the comments by stating the KINGS personnel problem FIRST, and THEN mentioning the Laker issues.

That way it can't evolve into another Laker bashing series of posts.

Isnt that too bad that you couldnt apply this idea to the other thread where you changed it into a Laker bashing thread when we all were simply commenting on Aaron Mckie, how he will fit, and how this changes the Lakers defensive gameplan when hes on the floor.

But if you do make these comments, Joe, I fully expect you to follow the Laker poster's lead, by including such commentary as, "Though the Kings blew it by not resigning Maurice Evans, this is grossly better then what the Lakers did when they..<put in whatever Laker personnel mistake of recent vintage is apppropriate>..." 

Ya..I mean why not bash Laker fans, who follow the Lakers closely, for comparing similar situations theyve seen the outcome for to situations going on now.  Who does this kind of crap?  Why would you ever look back in history on a similar situation to make a guesstimate of what may happen currently?  I wonder if a general in the army would do something so assinine like look at past battles to see how they panned out to help him get a feel for what could happen.

Everyone please, for JoMaL, do not make any refrence to a team you followed that made a bad trade or signing and then apply that to the current NBA.  This is not ok by JoMaL's standards.  Please refrain from doing so, thnx!

[WayOutWest]

No offense but the Kings have fallen of the radar, not much input I could give on them.  I use to follow the Kings, Mavs and Blazers but they are no longer players in the title run.  I have no choice but to follow my non-contendor home teams the Clips and Lakers.

The former contendors have been replaced by the Suns, Heat and Pacers and I've been following the Spurs since 2001 and continue to do so since they are the only current rival to the Lakers.  Too bad the Lakers aren't a rival to them anymore.  The departure of Shaq ended the only NBA rivalry in existance, all we have left are the Pistons and Pacers.  IMO only the Pacers and Miami have a shot at creating a new NBA rivalry.  One or both can start one up with each other or Detroit or the Spurs.

[rickortreat]

What a minute, I thought we were talking about the Kings here.  A team in transition from a Webber and Vlade team that was very very competitive to a new team with Peja, Bibby, Jackson, and SAR, not to mention some serviceable forwards from Philly.

They are a good center away from contending.  A player who can dominate the boards, throw the outlet pass and run the floor.  They have shooting, not as much defense as they need, but passable.

A playoff team for sure, a contender, probably not.  There just aren't enough good Centers available, and I don't think SAR can fullfill that role.

Does this make Philly with Dalmebert better?

And I wouldn't count out the Mavs, either.  Avery will find a way to get those guys to win.  It better be soon since the window for irk, no D is narrowing.  

[Laker Fan]

Watch those "window" comments Rick!!!! You know they only apply to the Kings!

If you're not coming in here to bash that worthless bridesmaid loser team from Hicksville, I mean Sacramento, your violating the rules! How's that JoMal? did I follow your rules? Never mentioned another team, and specifically bashed only the Kings.

[WayOutWest]

What a minute, I thought we were talking about the Kings here.  A team in transition from a Webber and Vlade team that was very very competitive to a new team with Peja, Bibby, Jackson, and SAR, not to mention some serviceable forwards from Philly.

They are a good center away from contending.  A player who can dominate the boards, throw the outlet pass and run the floor.  They have shooting, not as much defense as they need, but passable.

The Kings are solid but injuries are a bigger threat to Pheonix and the Spurs than the Kings/Mavs.  It's become a two horse race out west again, this time it's the Spurs and Suns.  The Suns are just better at the uptempo style of game than the Kings or Mavs, mostly because of Nash.  With Amare they even have a decent inside game for when the tempo slows down, both the Kings and Mavs do not have a back up plan since the departure of Webber/Vlade and since Dirk doesn't mix it up inside much.

A playoff team for sure, a contender, probably not.  There just aren't enough good Centers available, and I don't think SAR can fullfill that role.

Does this make Philly with Dalmebert better?

The only thing that makes Philly better than the Kings is the fact that they play in the East.  The East is still weak, the 5th seed in the East would probably NOT make the playoffs out West.  The East is a three horse between Miami, Detroit and Indy.  I think it will come down to Indy vs Miami.

And I wouldn't count out the Mavs, either.  Avery will find a way to get those guys to win.  It better be soon since the window for irk, no D is narrowing.

The Mavs just can't seem to get an identity, thier run-n-gun was severely crippled when Nash left and everyone on this board KNEW that Dampier would be a total flop.  They do not have a realistic shot at the title with their current personnel, barring injuries to the big dogs of course.

[JoMal]

If you're not coming in here to bash that worthless bridesmaid loser team from Hicksville, I mean Sacramento, your violating the rules! How's that JoMal? did I follow your rules? Never mentioned another team, and specifically bashed only the Kings.

See Dan. I may be mistaken here, but I do think you are allowing your personal bias against ME to enter into your commentary about the Kings and people may misinterpret your insightful post as being a bit prejudicial.

And we don't want that, do we? We all might think that all you are doing is transferring your personal concerns about your favorite team onto the Kings.

[JoMal]

Comparing the Kings acquisitions and its team to a team like the Suns is more interesting then other comparisons, that is for sure. Bibby has always managed to play Nash equally, and at times much better, especially with Nash's time in Dallas. The edge for the Suns is with Stoudamire. The Kings just have nothing comparable to him, as few teams do, and with a passer the quality of Nash, WOW is right to put the Suns as the team to beat in the west, along with the Spurs.

I disagree about the Kings' need for a better center, since Brad Miller is pretty decent and there aren't any out there better or likely to become available. I see their defense improving somewhat, mainly because as an organization they understand how bad it was last year and just have to do it better. Some of the acquisitions were geared to improve the defense and I have no idea how that plan is going to succeed yet.

I have doubts it will overwhelm practice sessions, however. SAR, Wells, and the returning players are pretty much offensive-minded players, so no matter how much effort is put on the defensive side of things, the Kings are not contending for anything while they insist on just trying to outscore the opposition.

The Kings biggest problem lies with the contracts they are carrying, in particular Thomas' bloated deal. They had to take on this contract because it was the only way to rid themselves of Webber's, but the length of the contract makes it impossible to move, and until they can, Thomas is going to float around Arco Arena like a fly who can't find a open window to escape. The others, including Wells (a one-year deal), Williamson, and Skinner (both after the 2006/07 season), are going to expire in a more reasonable time frame and open things up.

Which leads to the one issue everyone around the Kings DOES have an interest in - what happens when Peja's bargain basement deal expires after this season (he would be crazy to pick up his player option for 2006/07).

The feeling elsewhere in the League, in particular with the Lakers and their fans, if you can trust what they say, is they may have an inside tract in signing him then because of Divac, or whatever - Peja's rumored dissatisfaction with the Kings and him wanting to leave the Kings.

At the moment, at least, that is not Peja's intent. He has told local sports people he would prefer staying with the Kings for his entire NBA career now and likes Sacramento, (this was from comment he made this month). It also is very likely the Kings just won't let him sign elsewhere, but I can tell you one thing - how he plays this season will go a long way toward making this decision for both sides. The expectations are that he needs to have a spectacular year to prove his worth and many here in Sacramento are predicting he will.

 

[Joe Vancil]

Okay, here we go.

Let me start out by saying that Geoff Petrie has made a number of good moves over the years, but the cracks have formed in the foundation.  I'm not calling for Petrie's head...but I am suggesting that with some of the recent deals he's made, he seriously consider getting it checked out.  A "couldn't hurt" kind of thing, you know.

Let's dive right into the deep water - the Chris Webber deal.

This deal was STUPID from Sacramento's point of view.  Webber, although definitely in decline, is still capable as a focal point of an offense.  In trading a player of this caliber, you expect to get one back.  Sacramento didn't.  In that single move, they went from being an outside shot at a title if all the stars align in last year's playoffs to an non-factor at the top.  EVEN IF you believe Sacramento had declined - and I think we all agree that they had - a VETERAN team isn't the kind of team you simply dismiss.

I know someone is going to point out that Webber and Stojakovic couldn't co-exist.  If you really believe that that's the case, fire Adelman.  I tend to believe that they can co-exist provided they're not BOTH the focal point of the offense.

Finally, with the biggest of the bigs headed East, Webber becomes a possible player at CENTER against teams with smaller line-ups (like Phoenix) or centers who aren't offensively skilled (Minnesota, Golden State - even San An).  Change the role Webber plays.  The guy has TONS of different skills he can use.  As a passer at the power forward or center spots, Webber should be one of the better ones.

Secondly, DO NOT DEAL AWAY BOBBY JACKSON!  This is a STUPID move, especially when you consider you're getting Bonzi Wells - noted team cancer.  The Bonzi Wells pick-up only makes sense because you've dealt Webber.

Third, DO NOT LET MOBLEY GET AWAY!  Yes, he's shoot first and ask questions later, but with Bibby and Stojakovic and Jackson, guess what - that's your team strategy.  You're not a defensive team.

Fourth, stop being cheapskates.  That's right - CHEAPSKATES.  You let Jimmy Jackson, a key element of your team go when you were A STEP AWAY FROM A TITLE!  WTF!  You let Divac go via free agency.  If you've got a title contender assembled, you don't let key pieces to it just walk away!

As a result, Sacramento, for the upcoming year, looks like an also-ran, and one whose feature pieces are Stojakovic, Bibby, and Brad Miller.  Welcome to the wonderful world of being a perimeter oriented team with no rebounding outside of Kenny Thomas.

Were it not for the off-season signing of Shareef Abdur-Rahim, I wouldn't even have this team in the playoffs.

The Abdur-Rahim signing - A PERFECT FIT - salvaged the off-season.  Abdur-Rahim now means Sacramento DOES have a post presence that they can go to, and brings some help on the boards.  But I like Abdur-Rahim at the 3 - not the 4.  The Kings have fire-power, but is it compatible fire-power?  NO.  You're left with looking at whether you'd rather have Bonzi Wells in the post, or Abdur-Rahim drawing fouls in the post.  The Jackson-for-Wells deal now looks exceptionally stupid.  Players like Mobley and Jackson would help give Abdur-Rahim room to operate.  Players like Wells encourage teams to pack the lane.

All in all, Sacramento is further away from being a championship contender than they were before they started.  That's bad management.

 

[Laker Fan]

Never may that happen JoMal, you are easily my favorite poster here, alongside JN, where are you JN?

If you took my posts personal, or as an indication of my personal bias against you, please accept my sincere apology, I meant no offense. Our personal emails we have shared regarding the wine country, California in general, and football have been very enjoyable and enlightening to me, and personally I think your lnowledge of basketball and your opinions are usually second to none when it is out of the realm of Laker talk, although your clear dislike of all things Laker and you relishing the opportunity to kick us while we're down, is entirely cool with me, revenge is, after all a dish best served cold, que no?

It's really too bad we differ on our team loyalties (why you like the Raiders is still a mystery to me), because sometimes it causes us to hit a little hard when we are on the defensive, as we Laker fans are right now. Again, sorry if you took my smack talk personally, I really didn't mean it that way.

Are we cool?

[WayOutWest]

Are we cool?

You old farts are definately NOT cool.

[WayOutWest]

It does seem like the wheels were comming off the Kings last year.  Year after year the Kings seem to make the perfect move in player personnel.  Getting Webber and Vlade as their core looked brilliant.  The acquisition of Bibby seemed to be the key peice to make a serious title run.  They added quality verterans like Christie and the Jackson.  The addition of Brad Miller seemed to extend their window of opportunity for a title since it seemed Vlade was on the decline.

This year they are without Webber, Vlade, Christie and BOTH Jackson.  While they've mananged to hold things together better than the Lak....err....uhm... the worst case scenario, they are still a shell of their former selves.

Still there is hope to go deep into the playoffs.  If Miller can get back to his level of play in Indy and SAR can step in and make a solid contribution it's a good team.  Had they not lost Mobley I'd say they had a shot at upsetting ONE of the two big horses, namely PHX.