OT: Could the beheading have been stagged?

[Rickortreat]

That's the whole point, we're trying to give them the ability to choose WITHOUT GUNS!  Not make the choices for them.

We're not there to impose our way of life on them.  We did the first part of what we set out to do, and want to make sure we won't have to go back there again.

We would leave today, if we thought the country wouldn't collapse.  The fact that idiot idealogues are taking shots at us reveals how stable and sane a portion of their population is.

Lets say for example, you're one of those eager to take some power for yourself in Iraq.  Would you lay low for a while, build your strength maybe even make friends with the US to gain legitimacy?  Or maybe just wait for the US to leave and then act?

But NO, you've got to pick a fight with the most advanced military in the world!  Idiotic morons!!!! :crazy:    and clueless. :huh:

There's no reason Iraq can't be a safe stable country for it's citizens, except for the ones we're trying to control now.

But we would be completly whacked to allow a situation like what happened in Afghanistan to happen there.  And, it's not about American prestige, but about Iraq's future.

It is in our best interests, and the Arab world's best interest to have Iraq become a model of stability and wealth for the entire region.  And it wouldn't benefit anyone more than the Iraqis themselves!  

I can't stand the idea that some Muslims think we're out to get them, and therefore feel justified in blowing up buildings like we're still fighting the last crusade.  Islam is or was the fasted growing religion in the US!  Freeing Iraq and leaving it free would be hard even for these people to ignore, and may encourage the moderates to recognize our good side.  

Right now, name a peacefull Muslim country anywhere.  They fight with each other in different sects.  They fight with Christians in Europe, Hindus in India and with each other and Asians in Indonesia.  The ones who are formenting the hate are a small minority, and if we don't snuff them out, and they keep flying planes into buildings what should we do next, just take it?   :eek2:

This is not a war we want to fight.  This is a war we want the muslims to fight with each other.  The ones who recognize that the rest of the world has a lot to offer and that they would be much better off working with us have to stop the radicals from ruining it.  Because if they don't, we may have no choice but to end up like Israel.   :bash:  

[WayOutWest]

JoMal,

To the terrorists, funny that we even call them that, their means are justified if the end is the US pulling out.  They are doing what they can to reach their goal, they want to be rid of a western in their lands.  If they had YF-22's or Apache's or Cruise missles they would use them but they are fighting the only way they know how, a method taught to them by the US.  We called them freedom fighters when WE were training them to fight the USSR, now that they are using their US training on US we call them terrorists.

I guess the point is getting muddled but dropping the bomb on Japan was not neccessary.  We chose to do what we did because of politics, vengance and posturing on the world stage.  We didn't want to commit 100K+ American lives, we didn't want the Russians to invade first, we didn't want to blockade, we wanted revenge for Pearl Harbor and we wanted to show the USSR and other nations we had the bomb.

No doubt in my mind others would have used the bomb as well but there is no "could of, shoudl of, would of" because we actually did it.

And my point was about we kill just as much and in just as horrid a manner as anyone in history both by private citizens and our military.  I get just as disgusted and mad when I see things like what MIGHT have happened to Nick Berge and what did happend to the civilain contractors in Iraq, but I don't kid myself or jump on a soap box proclaiming we are better than that, cause we are not.  I'm also not STUPID enough to cover Islam in an ignorant blanket of evil.  Christians are such hypocritcal windbags, why won't the true God smite them down?

[JoMal]

I'm also not STUPID enough to cover Islam in an ignorant blanket of evil.  Christians are such hypocritcal windbags, why won't the true God smite them down?

The biggest threat to the survival of mankind has been organized religion. We may all believe in one God but the method of worship has corrupted those who run the denominations.

As for the rest, dropping the bomb was extreme, but it certainly got the job done. After four years of war, the world was ready for it all to stop and while all you said about it is true, the number of lives lost from those bombs were nothing to the number of lives it would otherwise have cost the countries involved. That it detered the Soviet Union was no doubt a big part of it, but at least we had a president at the time who understood these things and agreed to do it.

As for the terrorists, I would venture that they also have alternative means by which to achieve their goals other then blowing up civilians. Nothing can ever be negotiated under these circumstances, not that they are interested, so nothing will ever get resolved. The United States can't look weak by giving in, and the terrorists, or freedom fighters, or however you want to refer to them, do not appear to want to negotiate anything.

If we left, it would not stop; if we stay, it would not stop; if we capitulate, they would just demand more. As far as any so called agreement, I cannot see any such common ground upon which we can diplomatically come to a safer solution.

Seems to me there is a huge difference with this scenario then any we may have had to end World War II.  

[westkoast]

Not to break up the nice debates going on in here.........but how come it takes an off topic thread to get you guys to go back and forth for a few pages?

[WayOutWest]

Not to break up the nice debates going on in here.........but how come it takes an off topic thread to get you guys to go back and forth for a few pages?

F you westkoast!  I'm done with this thread beyatch!

[WayOutWest]

Back on topic.

The more and more I watch the video the more I'm convinced it is fake.  The guy reading the statement continually fumbles through the two pages and looks at the same side of the same sheet several times YET the speach is supposedly flowing.

I think, thankfully, Nick was already dead when they cut his head off.  His heart was NOT pumping when they started cutting off his head.  The more and more you see the cheesy outfits, posture and figiting the more you focus on the cheese!

The audio is obviously dubbed in and looped.

Who staged it and why?

[JoMal]

WestKoast, the topic itself can create a life of its own.

When you think about it, we have said just about all there is to say about basketball and then some, and most of what we all post about it now is just repetitious.

So when a fresh topic pops up, it's like a shot of viagra to a limp lizard.

WOW, I know I got a little testy with you yesterday and I want you to know I should not have gotten so personal. But since you lean toward the confrontational yourself, I figured you could take it. You certainly are a worthy debater and while our disagreement on the topic at hand appeared ingrained, I think from the gist of what you were saying that we probably have a basic conformity to our beliefs.

We can only hope that the Nick Berg video, which I cannot download from any of the links given, was fake. I mentioned before that I think fighting a war under such media scrutiny is bound to create a propaganda machine used by both sides to further their own cause. While I think some (certainly not all) Americans can see through the sound bites and figure out when the truth has not been presented, I doubt the people of Iraq or other Mid-Eastern countries would even try to do the same.

Not to be too disparaging, but any people who buy into the extreme measures of Islam are not likely to WANT to see through Arab news reports.

[westkoast]

Not to break up the nice debates going on in here.........but how come it takes an off topic thread to get you guys to go back and forth for a few pages?

F you westkoast!  I'm done with this thread beyatch!

Thats ok.....cuz my thread already went 5x platnium

*flicks rolex watch to bling bling WoW to death*