PhillyArena Forums
PhillyArena Community => NBA Discussion => Topic started by: jemagee on December 04, 2008, 09:56:20 PM
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Holy crap the mavs are kicking the crap out of the suns on TNT
Terry Porter - hot seat?
Steve Kerr has GOT to be in trouble doesn't he?
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Holy crap the mavs are kicking the crap out of the suns on TNT
Terry Porter - hot seat?
Steve Kerr has GOT to be in trouble doesn't he?
The Suns look like they need a "do over" and quick! Not sure if it's players or coach, right now both look like shizzle.
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Can we get Rickortreat and Reality to finally admit making moves for Shaq and in response switching up the offense was the WRONG way to go?
Though to be fair you don't really win games often when you let an elite player go 17 for 25 no matter what you are doing.
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I never thought it was a good move personally.
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I never thought it was a good move personally.
Well those two more or less was telling those of us who said it was a bad move we didn't know what we were talking about.
Which is REALLY ironic considering how much both of them hated Shaq when he was a Laker.
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I never thought it was a good move personally.
Well those two more or less was telling those of us who said it was a bad move we didn't know what we were talking about.
Which is REALLY ironic considering how much both of them hated Shaq when he was a Laker.
I thought it was a good move...for the Spurs! Anything (except injuries) that weakens an opponent is a good move IMO.
I also liked the Kidd/Harris trade.
;D
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I also liked the Kidd/Harris trade.
That one was baffling to me as well - but since he's also a badger, i'm pro devin harris, and despise jason kidd
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I never thought it was a good move personally.
Well those two more or less was telling those of us who said it was a bad move we didn't know what we were talking about.
Which is REALLY ironic considering how much both of them hated Shaq when he was a Laker.
I thought it was a good move...for the Spurs! Anything (except injuries) that weakens an opponent is a good move IMO.
I also liked the Kidd/Harris trade.
;D
The icing on that cake is what the Mavs had to pay to get "Diop the throw in" back.
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are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?
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are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?
Los Angeles Lakers
They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.
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Hmm...maybe that explains the hatred - but that was also mostly Jerry West was it not - have they won any titles since West left? I know they've rebuilt nicely with Kupchak (and a huge, asinine, assists from the Grizzlies)...and Bynum is looking like a solid pick even though Kobe wanted him gone for J-Kidd (another example why player input probably isn't the smartest thing in the world) - though there've been some disturbing reports the past weeks about his behavior and attitude
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Hmm...maybe that explains the hatred - but that was also mostly Jerry West was it not - have they won any titles since West left? I know they've rebuilt nicely with Kupchak (and a huge, asinine, assists from the Grizzlies)...and Bynum is looking like a solid pick even though Kobe wanted him gone for J-Kidd (another example why player input probably isn't the smartest thing in the world) - though there've been some disturbing reports the past weeks about his behavior and attitude
West did not build the early 80's team, he mostly maintained it throughout the 80's, and they also won titles in Minny and a title in the 70's, none of which had West as a "management" contributor. Should this current team win a title it would be a "reload" where the Shaq/Kobe teams were a "rebuild". Still, IMO the Lakers lost more than can be quantified the day West left.
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are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?
Los Angeles Lakers
They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.
The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles. ;)
But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.
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are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?
Los Angeles Lakers
They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.
The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles. ;)
But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.
The Spurs are there year after year....but instead of big marketing officiating they have fixing of drafts ;)
I think the Spurs have done an excellent job of tapping the Euro market to keep the team competitive, finding journey men, and I think coaching has a lot to do with them always being able to rebuild quickly. Ditto for PJ and the Lakers. I think if the Spurs and Lakers did not have the coaches they do the wouldn't be able to reload in the same fashion.
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are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?
Los Angeles Lakers
They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.
The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles. ;)
But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.
FYI,
Sorry to break it to you but...the Spurs have nothing to do with the point of the "reload/rebuild" tangent of this thread. The Spurs have neither reloaded nor rebuilt to win a title. TD has won with DRob/TP/Manu as the core. They were not all together but you can't really say they reloaded since one or more of the core PLUS TD have been there very time.
The Lakers were a completely different team that won titles in the 80's vs the 70's team and they were a completely different team that won titles in the 00's vs the 80's, Green being the exception but I wouldn't condsider Green part of the 80's core, that was Magic/Worthy/Kareem.
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are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?
Los Angeles Lakers
They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.
The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles. ;)
But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.
FYI,
Sorry to break it to you but...the Spurs have nothing to do with the point of the "reload/rebuild" tangent of this thread. The Spurs have neither reloaded nor rebuilt to win a title. TD has won with DRob/TP/Manu as the core. They were not all together but you can't really say they reloaded since one or more of the core PLUS TD have been there very time.
The Lakers were a completely different team that won titles in the 80's vs the 70's team and they were a completely different team that won titles in the 00's vs the 80's, Green being the exception but I wouldn't condsider Green part of the 80's core, that was Magic/Worthy/Kareem.
I disagree because the 99 team was much different then the 2003 team.
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are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?
Los Angeles Lakers
They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.
The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles. ;)
But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.
FYI,
Sorry to break it to you but...the Spurs have nothing to do with the point of the "reload/rebuild" tangent of this thread. The Spurs have neither reloaded nor rebuilt to win a title. TD has won with DRob/TP/Manu as the core. They were not all together but you can't really say they reloaded since one or more of the core PLUS TD have been there very time.
The Lakers were a completely different team that won titles in the 80's vs the 70's team and they were a completely different team that won titles in the 00's vs the 80's, Green being the exception but I wouldn't condsider Green part of the 80's core, that was Magic/Worthy/Kareem.
I disagree because the 99 team was much different then the 2003 team.
Shaq/Kobe was the Lakers core, so it was completely the same. You might go as far as saying they were reloaded but I don't agree cause there were plenty of "role" players still there on the Lakers bench, so IMO 2003 was not a reload. With Shaq gone any Lakers team winning a title would be a reload and any Lakers team winning a title without Kobe would be a rebuild.
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are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?
Los Angeles Lakers
They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.
The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles. ;)
But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.
FYI,
Sorry to break it to you but...the Spurs have nothing to do with the point of the "reload/rebuild" tangent of this thread. The Spurs have neither reloaded nor rebuilt to win a title. TD has won with DRob/TP/Manu as the core. They were not all together but you can't really say they reloaded since one or more of the core PLUS TD have been there very time.
The Lakers were a completely different team that won titles in the 80's vs the 70's team and they were a completely different team that won titles in the 00's vs the 80's, Green being the exception but I wouldn't condsider Green part of the 80's core, that was Magic/Worthy/Kareem.
I disagree because the 99 team was much different then the 2003 team.
Shaq/Kobe was the Lakers core, so it was completely the same. You might go as far as saying they were reloaded but I don't agree cause there were plenty of "role" players still there on the Lakers bench, so IMO 2003 was not a reload. With Shaq gone any Lakers team winning a title would be a reload and any Lakers team winning a title without Kobe would be a rebuild.
The Spurs, not the Lakers.
The 99 team had Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, Duncan, and Robinson as the "core" players.
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are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?
Los Angeles Lakers
They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.
The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles. ;)
But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.
FYI,
Sorry to break it to you but...the Spurs have nothing to do with the point of the "reload/rebuild" tangent of this thread. The Spurs have neither reloaded nor rebuilt to win a title. TD has won with DRob/TP/Manu as the core. They were not all together but you can't really say they reloaded since one or more of the core PLUS TD have been there very time.
The Lakers were a completely different team that won titles in the 80's vs the 70's team and they were a completely different team that won titles in the 00's vs the 80's, Green being the exception but I wouldn't condsider Green part of the 80's core, that was Magic/Worthy/Kareem.
I disagree because the 99 team was much different then the 2003 team.
Shaq/Kobe was the Lakers core, so it was completely the same. You might go as far as saying they were reloaded but I don't agree cause there were plenty of "role" players still there on the Lakers bench, so IMO 2003 was not a reload. With Shaq gone any Lakers team winning a title would be a reload and any Lakers team winning a title without Kobe would be a rebuild.
The Spurs, not the Lakers.
The 99 team had Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, Duncan, and Robinson as the "core" players.
TD/DRob = Core, that example does not apply. Plus by the time they won their 2nd title Parker and Manu were part of the team so IMO DRob cancels out the 99 to 03 reload and Parker/Manu cancel out the 05 and 07 title teams as far as "reloads" to the 03 team. It's a great job on the Spurs part but I would not consider it a reload or a rebuild just like I don't consider any of the 90's Bulls teams a candidate.
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are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?
Los Angeles Lakers
They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.
The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles. ;)
But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.
FYI,
Sorry to break it to you but...the Spurs have nothing to do with the point of the "reload/rebuild" tangent of this thread. The Spurs have neither reloaded nor rebuilt to win a title. TD has won with DRob/TP/Manu as the core. They were not all together but you can't really say they reloaded since one or more of the core PLUS TD have been there very time.
The Lakers were a completely different team that won titles in the 80's vs the 70's team and they were a completely different team that won titles in the 00's vs the 80's, Green being the exception but I wouldn't condsider Green part of the 80's core, that was Magic/Worthy/Kareem.
I disagree because the 99 team was much different then the 2003 team.
Shaq/Kobe was the Lakers core, so it was completely the same. You might go as far as saying they were reloaded but I don't agree cause there were plenty of "role" players still there on the Lakers bench, so IMO 2003 was not a reload. With Shaq gone any Lakers team winning a title would be a reload and any Lakers team winning a title without Kobe would be a rebuild.
The Spurs, not the Lakers.
The 99 team had Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, Duncan, and Robinson as the "core" players.
TD/DRob = Core, that example does not apply. Plus by the time they won their 2nd title Parker and Manu were part of the team so IMO DRob cancels out the 99 to 03 reload and Parker/Manu cancel out the 05 and 07 title teams as far as "reloads" to the 03 team. It's a great job on the Spurs part but I would not consider it a reload or a rebuild just like I don't consider any of the 90's Bulls teams a candidate.
There was nothing about reloading/rebuilding for a "title". It was avbout relaodign and rebuilding. The Spurs ave constantly done that with Gervin, Artis Gilmore, Mike Mitchell, Alvin Robertson, D-Rob, Elliott, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili. The Spurs are a constant playoff team year after year. And it is harder to win titles from outside the playoffs rather than in them. Name another team that from the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s that has consistantly been in the playoffs.
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There was nothing about reloading/rebuilding for a "title". It was avbout relaodign and rebuilding. The Spurs ave constantly done that with Gervin, Artis Gilmore, Mike Mitchell, Alvin Robertson, D-Rob, Elliott, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili. The Spurs are a constant playoff team year after year. And it is harder to win titles from outside the playoffs rather than in them. Name another team that from the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s that has consistantly been in the playoffs.
IMO the first and last word in the NBA is CHAMPIONSHIPS. I could care less if my favorite teams made the playoffs every year since the birth of Christ, it wouldn't mean shyte if they didn't win a title.
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There was nothing about reloading/rebuilding for a "title". It was avbout relaodign and rebuilding. The Spurs ave constantly done that with Gervin, Artis Gilmore, Mike Mitchell, Alvin Robertson, D-Rob, Elliott, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili. The Spurs are a constant playoff team year after year. And it is harder to win titles from outside the playoffs rather than in them. Name another team that from the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s that has consistantly been in the playoffs.
IMO the first and last word in the NBA is CHAMPIONSHIPS. I could care less if my favorite teams made the playoffs every year since the birth of Christ, it wouldn't mean shyte if they didn't win a title.
Then I guess it is good you follow one of the larger markets teams that gets regular officiating gifts from the league. Woe be to you if you actually enjoyed watching a smaller market team that had to struggle with cap issues, revenues and still put a consistantly, competitive team on the floor. There are two small market teams that have accomplished this for years and IMO that is a lot more of an accomplishment than regualrly buying up the best players to keep making runs at titles.
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There was nothing about reloading/rebuilding for a "title". It was avbout relaodign and rebuilding. The Spurs ave constantly done that with Gervin, Artis Gilmore, Mike Mitchell, Alvin Robertson, D-Rob, Elliott, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili. The Spurs are a constant playoff team year after year. And it is harder to win titles from outside the playoffs rather than in them. Name another team that from the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s that has consistantly been in the playoffs.
IMO the first and last word in the NBA is CHAMPIONSHIPS. I could care less if my favorite teams made the playoffs every year since the birth of Christ, it wouldn't mean shyte if they didn't win a title.
Then I guess it is good you follow one of the larger markets teams that gets regular officiating gifts from the league. Woe be to you if you actually enjoyed watching a smaller market team that had to struggle with cap issues, revenues and still put a consistantly, competitive team on the floor. There are two small market teams that have accomplished this for years and IMO that is a lot more of an accomplishment than regualrly buying up the best players to keep making runs at titles.
Are we talking about baseball or basketball here? The two large market teams fall into the following:
One is not at the top of the league in spending.
One is at the very top of the league in spending and has not sniffed a championship since the 70s.
The Lakers do not have the highest payroll in the league and really have done a decent job since they moved to LA of not over spending. You act as if they are the Yankees when they are not. Plenty of LA residents have actually complained for years both post-threepeat and in the 90s for Jerry Buss *NOT* spending enough money.
I'd tend to agree with you Lurker if teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves, Miami Heat, and Pheonix Suns have not paid for the largest contracts over the past 5 years. Would make sense if Dallas did not have one of the largest payrolls in the league since 2000. Kevin Garnett was the highest paid player for a really long time at well over 20 million a year. The Wolves even managed to find money to bring in key players that would have helped them get to a championship while he was still there. Now I could be wrong but I don't believe Minnesota is even one of the top 5 markets in this league. While at the same time realizing that the only super star the Lakers have used their money to get to come to the team has been Shaq. Over the past 25 years the only big name to be drawn to the city initially based on money is Shaq. Everyone else was pretty much drafted or traded for. Including Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant.
And I don't think Spurs fans can really bring up "gifts" in the playoffs as you guys have had the benefit of the doubt MANY times during your runs. Most recently being the PHX series. Let me know when the Lakers are handed the best power forward of all time by the league :D
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And I don't think Spurs fans can really bring up "gifts" in the playoffs as you guys have had the benefit of the doubt MANY times during your runs. Most recently being the PHX series. Let me know when the Lakers are handed the best power forward of all time by the league :D
Do you really want to talk about gifts of PFs?
And over the years the Lakers have purchased (by outright contracts or endorsements) more stars and role players than any team in the league. Do you really want to go back and talk about some of the various gifts the Lakers have received? Even to the point where the league had to create a new rule: the Stepian rule?
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And I don't think Spurs fans can really bring up "gifts" in the playoffs as you guys have had the benefit of the doubt MANY times during your runs. Most recently being the PHX series. Let me know when the Lakers are handed the best power forward of all time by the league :D
Do you really want to talk about gifts of PFs?
And over the years the Lakers have purchased (by outright contracts or endorsements) more stars and role players than any team in the league. Do you really want to go back and talk about some of the various gifts the Lakers have received? Even to the point where the league had to create a new rule: the Stepian rule?
If you want to bring up Pau Gasol I have two answers:
1) Didn't realize you thought he was better than Tim Duncan, maybe you need more coffee
2) You got Tim Duncan for NOTHING. The Lakers gave up Marc Gasol and money. Marc Gasol seems to be coming along nicely. In fact he is well on his way to being a quality big man.
Let's list all the super stars over the past 25 years who were drawn to the Lakers from another team based on money:
Shaq.
The Lakers are the 6th highest spending franchise in the leauge behind such huge market heavy weights as the Portland Trailblazers, Cavs, and Mavericks. They haven't been the top spending team in the league pretty much since I've been on the planet. Stop trying to make this out to be Yankees-esque.
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Shaq.
The Lakers are the 6th highest spending franchise in the leauge behind such huge market heavy weights as the Portland Trailblazers, Cavs, and Mavericks. They haven't been the top spending team in the league pretty much since I've been on the planet. Stop trying to make this out to be Yankees-esque.
Exactly. The only time the Lakers are mentioned along with big names is when the Lakers are being used as leverage. I would love for Lurker to list all the "big names" that signed with the Lakers. The only ones I can think of are Shaq, Malone, Payton and Gasol. Only Shaq and Gasol were in their primes and commanding large salaries. The Lakers just happen to be one of the best teams in the league for drafting and developing talent through the draft. The "big market" and "big spending" argument is stupid crap that should be left for places like Fanhome.
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Exactly. The only time the Lakers are mentioned along with big names is when the Lakers are being used as leverage. I would love for Lurker to list all the "big names" that signed with the Lakers. The only ones I can think of are Shaq, Malone, Payton and Gasol. Only Shaq and Gasol were in their primes and commanding large salaries. The Lakers just happen to be one of the best teams in the league for drafting and developing talent through the draft. The "big market" and "big spending" argument is stupid crap that should be left for places like Fanhome.
:D :D
Kream for Dave Myers
Mychelle Thompson for ???
Kome for Vlade
Gasol for Kwame
"Warehouse"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gn17bkL2mU
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.......................................
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Okay Laker nosers..real Laker fans just keep reading on...
Go back and examine how the Lakers were able to draft James Worthy. Talk about gifts.
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Okay Laker nosers..real Laker fans just keep reading on...
Go back and examine how the Lakers were able to draft James Worthy. Talk about gifts.
"draft" is correct. I thought it was about "buying"? Just let me know what you want to CHANGE to discussion to so I can keep up.
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Okay Laker nosers..real Laker fans just keep reading on...
Go back and examine how the Lakers were able to draft James Worthy. Talk about gifts.
"draft" is correct. I thought it was about "buying"? Just let me know what you want to CHANGE to discussion to so I can keep up.
Are you finished skirting, ready for a wardrobe CHANGE?
Kream for Dave Myers
Mychelle Thompson for
Kome for Vlade
Gasol for Kwame
"Warehouse"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gn17bkL2mU
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..........
::)
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Reality, here is my response. I cant come out right now on the Lakers shady acquisitions.
(http://www.topnews.in/files/images/Neil%20Patrick%20Harris%20and%20David%20Burtka.jpg)
::)
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There is no point in discussing SERIOUS basketball with me! I have shown time after time that I am not interested in anything other than wasting board space.
I totally agree!
HENCE:
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owned.
Realowned.
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::)
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Exactly. The only time the Lakers are mentioned along with big names is when the Lakers are being used as leverage. I would love for Lurker to list all the "big names" that signed with the Lakers. The only ones I can think of are Shaq, Malone, Payton and Gasol. Only Shaq and Gasol were in their primes and commanding large salaries. The Lakers just happen to be one of the best teams in the league for drafting and developing talent through the draft. The "big market" and "big spending" argument is stupid crap that should be left for places like Fanhome.
:D :D
Kream for Dave Myers
Mychelle Thompson for ???
Kome for Vlade
Gasol for Kwame
"Warehouse"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gn17bkL2mU
How does this pertain to talking about using money to bring players in?
THESE ARE TRADES DUMMY.
And while the Vlade trade for Kobe looks horrible in hindsight you do know the saying. Things tend to be 20/20 after the fact. It's not like it was a sure bet Kobe would be awesome. For all anyone knew at the time he could have been more Darius Miles then Michael Jordan.
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Now if you want to bring up media exposure and endorsements you have more ground to stand on. Obviously you become a better player in the medias eyes when they see you every night. Even if that is not the truth. Trevor Ariza gets more attention then Bruce Bowen but he is not the same quality defender.
The thing is if your team is not winning, no one cares. Ask New York. Who is the last big name player to run to New York for those reasons? Kevin Garnett went to Boston because he thought he could win. His And1 and Gatorade commercials were flying in just fine when he lived in Minny.
Things have changes since the 80s and 90s in terms of player endorsements. If the players are big enough, it doesn't matter. That is why KG always did gatorade commercials. Why Dwayne Wade does T-Mobile commercials. Why Charles Barkley did Right Guard commercials while in PHX. Has Shaq's endorsements dropped off since he left LA? Not really. I see him doing Crunch, Icey Hot, Vitamin Water, etc.
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Okay Laker nosers..real Laker fans just keep reading on...
Go back and examine how the Lakers were able to draft James Worthy. Talk about gifts.
"draft" is correct. I thought it was about "buying"? Just let me know what you want to CHANGE to discussion to so I can keep up.
Same "gift" that you say the Spurs got with Duncan. However the Spurs earned (losing season) their draft pick, the Lakers had it given to them by the Cavs.
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Okay Laker nosers..real Laker fans just keep reading on...
Go back and examine how the Lakers were able to draft James Worthy. Talk about gifts.
"draft" is correct. I thought it was about "buying"? Just let me know what you want to CHANGE to discussion to so I can keep up.
Same "gift" that you say the Spurs got with Duncan. However the Spurs earned (losing season) their draft pick, the Lakers had it given to them by the Cavs.
All the Lakers had to do was "ask" for that draft pick? Wow, I want to be a GM in the NBA. Lucky for the Lakers Worthy was the CLEAR #1 pick, it's not like he was up against some college stars along the lines of Cummings or Dominique......
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Okay Laker nosers..real Laker fans just keep reading on...
Go back and examine how the Lakers were able to draft James Worthy. Talk about gifts.
"draft" is correct. I thought it was about "buying"? Just let me know what you want to CHANGE to discussion to so I can keep up.
Same "gift" that you say the Spurs got with Duncan. However the Spurs earned (losing season) their draft pick, the Lakers had it given to them by the Cavs.
All the Lakers had to do was "ask" for that draft pick? Wow, I want to be a GM in the NBA. Lucky for the Lakers Worthy was the CLEAR #1 pick, it's not like he was up against some college stars along the lines of Cummings or Dominique......
Basically that is all they did. Then the Cleveland owner was smacked down by the league and a new rule was created so that franchises couldn't give away 1st rounders in 2 consecutive drafts. Of course the league didn't make the Lakers give the pick back or anything...
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Okay Laker nosers..real Laker fans just keep reading on...
Go back and examine how the Lakers were able to draft James Worthy. Talk about gifts.
"draft" is correct. I thought it was about "buying"? Just let me know what you want to CHANGE to discussion to so I can keep up.
Same "gift" that you say the Spurs got with Duncan. However the Spurs earned (losing season) their draft pick, the Lakers had it given to them by the Cavs.
All the Lakers had to do was "ask" for that draft pick? Wow, I want to be a GM in the NBA. Lucky for the Lakers Worthy was the CLEAR #1 pick, it's not like he was up against some college stars along the lines of Cummings or Dominique......
Basically that is all they did. Then the Cleveland owner was smacked down by the league and a new rule was created so that franchises couldn't give away 1st rounders in 2 consecutive drafts. Of course the league didn't make the Lakers give the pick back or anything...
So as a GM all I have to do is "ask" for the pick, just not ask for the pick from the same franchise twice in a row? Ok...got it....Clippers here I come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Exactly. The only time the Lakers are mentioned along with big names is when the Lakers are being used as leverage. I would love for Lurker to list all the "big names" that signed with the Lakers. The only ones I can think of are Shaq, Malone, Payton and Gasol. Only Shaq and Gasol were in their primes and commanding large salaries. The Lakers just happen to be one of the best teams in the league for drafting and developing talent through the draft. The "big market" and "big spending" argument is stupid crap that should be left for places like Fanhome.
:D :D
Kream for Dave Myers
Mychelle Thompson for ???
Kome for Vlade
Gasol for Kwame
"Warehouse"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Gn17bkL2mU
How does this pertain to talking about using money to bring players in?
THESE ARE TRADES DUMMY.
And while the Vlade trade for Kobe looks horrible in hindsight you do know the saying. Things tend to be 20/20 after the fact. It's not like it was a sure bet Kobe would be awesome. For all anyone knew at the time he could have been more Darius Miles then Michael Jordan.
B=Rad, i think you are at your cutest when you hypocrittically try to dis someone and end up owning yourself.
No kidding they are trades. I was responding to WoWs blabbering about how the great and powerful Lakers were not built on trades but rather shrewd rrrrrrrraaaagh draft picks. And no one knew Kobe could have been more then Darius Miles? So the Lakers did not have any great shrewd drafting. :D :D Sounds like WoW will have you sleeping on the couch tonight.
And WoW my apologies for the photo above of your bois Neil and boyfriend. I should not have been so insensitive to your feelings.
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3185/3095186898_cea8240a2f_o.jpg)
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......
::)
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Since no one has really put it in plain english for you Reality....
The very fact you have 20 known semi-gay pictures on your hard drive that you took time out of your day to photoshop Lakers logos makes you look like a homosexual.
Plenty of high school players have been busts. Out of the hundreds that have come to this league at a very young age I can only think of 5 off the top of my head that turned out to be awesome players. Kobe was not a sure bet. Anyone says he was is lying.
By the way, W.O.W is a Latino. Do you think you could put more effort in and search for images of, I dunno Officer Ponch? Cheech? Why are you doing it half way and just using images you already have on your HD? At least maybe we would think you were trying to be funny instead of trying to be gay.
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Since no one has really put it in plain english for you Reality....
The very fact you have 20 known semi-gay pictures on your hard drive that you took time out of your day to photoshop Lakers logos makes you look like a homosexual.
Plenty of high school players have been busts. Out of the hundreds that have come to this league at a very young age I can only think of 5 off the top of my head that turned out to be awesome players. Kobe was not a sure bet. Anyone says he was is lying.
By the way, W.O.W is a Latino. Do you think you could put more effort in and search for images of, I dunno Officer Ponch? Cheech? Why are you doing it half way and just using images you already have on your HD? At least maybe we would think you were trying to be funny instead of trying to be gay.
Reality has been exposed by the Real Spurs fans as a fag. His collection of photos just cements his flamming reputation around here. I'm sure there is a photo of that Liberachi (sic?) physic on the web some where. Whenever I see that guy on my parents TV I just stare at my mom and dad for a minute to try and figure out WTF are they doing watching that flammer.
Back to the discussion, I mistakenly put Gasol into the mix, he was not bought he was traded. So the ONLY guys I can think of that the Lakers just bought is Shaq.
I'm still waiting on the EXTENSIVE list of players the Lakers bought from Lurker.
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I'm still waiting on the EXTENSIVE list of players the Lakers bought from Lurker.
And I am waiting on a discussion above the first grade level from you. So far you have added nothing to the discussion but snide comments. Show me some of the in-depth analysis that you...in our last discussion thread... claim to post.
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I'm still waiting on the EXTENSIVE list of players the Lakers bought from Lurker.
And I am waiting on a discussion above the first grade level from you. So far you have added nothing to the discussion but snide comments. Show me some of the in-depth analysis that you...in our last discussion thread... claim to post.
Pointing out how simple minded and childish your comments about the Lakers "asking" for draft picks is snide? I guess it is but you are making THOSE comments without any backup, there is NOTHING to analyse because the "gifting" of draft picks has no merrit. It takes two to tango and the Lakers didn't force any team to do anything. The fact that their draft pick ended up being #1 was not within the Lakers control. Just silly comments on your part that stems from you hurt feelings about the TD draft gift comments. It's so obvious it's not worth arguing over.
Not to metion that the POINT you made was the Lakers "bought" players. When you realized that point has ZERO value you change the discussion to draft picks.
Typical. ::)
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Not to metion that the POINT you made was the Lakers "bought" players.
WOW, you are not a child.
A team doesn't have to outright "buy", "sign to a contract", "monetarily gain", or outright "steal" any player in plain view of the public at large or the media to have considered "BUYING THE PLAYER". Since no one here knows about the under-the-table handshakes, shady incentives, or late night conversations between owners and executives and how across 5 decades, cycle after cycle, decade after decade the Lakers mysteriously come up with whoppers like Gasol vs. Kwame.
Its the all-encompassing, celestial, GOD-LIKE Intelligence and foresight of Laker Front Office employess since NBA time immemorial!!!
PUH-LEAZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Not to metion that the POINT you made was the Lakers "bought" players.
WOW, you are not a child.
A team doesn't have to outright "buy", "sign to a contract", "monetarily gain", or outright "steal" any player in plain view of the public at large or the media to have considered "BUYING THE PLAYER". Since no one here knows about the under-the-table handshakes, shady incentives, or late night conversations between owners and executives and how across 5 decades, cycle after cycle, decade after decade the Lakers mysteriously come up with whoppers like Gasol vs. Kwame.
Its the all-encompassing, celestial, GOD-LIKE Intelligence and foresight of Laker Front Office employess since NBA time immemorial!!!
PUH-LEAZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Lurker said the Lakers simply buy players, that is not the case. I agree that they have made trades that seemed very lopsided but that is not what Lurker said. If you want to re-frame the point of discussion that is fine with me but dont' try to spin mid-debate and expect me not to notice.
Where was the outrage when the Lakers traded Shaq for Butler, Odom and a useless Grant?
Where was the outrage when the Lakers traded Butler for Kwame?
Where was the outrage when the Lakers traded Jones and Elden for Rice?
PUH-LEAZE INDEED!
Piss off with your weak arse comments, the Lakers are not the Yankees.
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Not to metion that the POINT you made was the Lakers "bought" players.
WOW, you are not a child.
A team doesn't have to outright "buy", "sign to a contract", "monetarily gain", or outright "steal" any player in plain view of the public at large or the media to have considered "BUYING THE PLAYER". Since no one here knows about the under-the-table handshakes, shady incentives, or late night conversations between owners and executives and how across 5 decades, cycle after cycle, decade after decade the Lakers mysteriously come up with whoppers like Gasol vs. Kwame.
Its the all-encompassing, celestial, GOD-LIKE Intelligence and foresight of Laker Front Office employess since NBA time immemorial!!!
PUH-LEAZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Forget it Skander. You got the meaning. Most of the reasonable posters understood the meaning. Just the obstinate ones who aren't interested in actually having a discussion missed it. He can claim the Spurs winning the lottery is a gift but I can't say the Lakers bought players.
WOW has no interest in actually using facts or trying to understand anyone's points. He is just in a pissypants mood to make the thread run longer. Just like in the other thread where he finally acknowledged that I stated his point of view...even though he never could state it because then the thread would have ended. And "what fun is that".
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Not to metion that the POINT you made was the Lakers "bought" players.
WOW, you are not a child.
A team doesn't have to outright "buy", "sign to a contract", "monetarily gain", or outright "steal" any player in plain view of the public at large or the media to have considered "BUYING THE PLAYER". Since no one here knows about the under-the-table handshakes, shady incentives, or late night conversations between owners and executives and how across 5 decades, cycle after cycle, decade after decade the Lakers mysteriously come up with whoppers like Gasol vs. Kwame.
Its the all-encompassing, celestial, GOD-LIKE Intelligence and foresight of Laker Front Office employess since NBA time immemorial!!!
PUH-LEAZE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Forget it Skander. You got the meaning. Most of the reasonable posters understood the meaning. Just the obstinate ones who aren't interested in actually having a discussion missed it. He can claim the Spurs winning the lottery is a gift but I can't say the Lakers bought players.
WOW has no interest in actually using facts or trying to understand anyone's points. He is just in a pissypants mood to make the thread run longer. Just like in the other thread where he finally acknowledged that I stated his point of view...even though he never could state it because then the thread would have ended. And "what fun is that".
Yea, ok Lurker.
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Or how about trading Nick Van Exel in his prime for Tyrone Lue and Tony Battie.....
All large size font and bolding aside the point I was trying to make is that they are not the Yankees of the NBA. There is not this endless sack of money that Jerry Buss is throwing around to attract players. OBVIOUSLY players can and do get attracted to LA for the attention. You don't see the franchise going the Dallas Mavericks route and buying up players. The team that is built right now was done on trading and drafting. Aside from Fisher/Radman who were picked up as free agents (and not strickly based on money for the record). Odom, Ariza, Gasol, and Bryant all came from trades. Farmar, Walton, and Bynum were all drafted.
Now say what you want about money or special rules or secret conspiracy theory back room deals.....I think that is hard to swallow for the following reasons:
1) I don't see where LA has the advantage in drafting. Drafting Bynum so early at the time was a gamble. Everyone remembers that. Farmar was also a gamble and he looks like he is a solid pg. Where does LA's bank roll and media appeal help here? Are they told who is going to be good from Marty McFly?
2) If you are saying there was a special backroom hand shake for Kobe, I disagree. Vlade Divac was still a very good player. Once he left the Hornets and went to the Kings he was a very important piece in making Sac-Town one of the elite teams. Kobe Bryant was an 18 year old high school player who was a question mark coming into the NBA.
If you are talking about the Pau Gasol deal. Maybe there was a secret deal or maybe the GM really thought getting more room on the books and getting Marc Gasol was a good idea. If Marc Gasol continues to improve then he doesn't look like an idiot. The trade was done by the Lakers for an instant turn around. The Grizzlies did the trade for the long term. The Lakers needed a solid big man right away. The Grizzlies wanted to gear up for years in the future. They get a 7 footer who needs to develop and 10 million off the books. The Lakers get a quality big man right away. The Lakers should be judged on the trade right away, it was made to change things right away. The Grizzlies was for the future so I don't get why they were judged right away on what they were planning. Just my take.
Or maybe the GM just made a bad trade? Why is that not a possibility Skander? I mean Mitch traded Shaq for Kwame Brown and Lamar Odom. A trade I believe you said was stupid (correct me if I am wrong) Why is it since it's the Lakers it's back room deals. When the Jazz got Carlos Boozer it wasn't :D
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With a salary cap it's kind of hard to have a 'yankees' team - but i would think marc cuban would have to qualify before buss?
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With a salary cap it's kind of hard to have a 'yankees' team - but i would think marc cuban would have to qualify before buss?
True but that doesn't mean you can't spend a lot of money. You just have to pay a tax. Allen did it in Portland when he put together the Blazers in 2000-2001. Cuban has pretty much done it since 2001. The Knicks have a yearly pay roll that comes close to 100 million.
The Lakers did not just go out and buy players to put around Kobe. While a lot of us were complaining they were not opening up the pocket book they were developing talent and looking for ways to improve via trade. I would agree with Lurker and Skandery if there was actual proof of the Lakers always doing this. I can't just go off backroom conspiracy theories UNLESS we assume Tim Duncan and Carlos Boozer were back room deals as well.
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See - 3 great examples before Buss - I'm not sure who originally called the lakers the 'yankees' of the NBA but it's really an insult to the lakers and not really indicative of what the yankees do (pretty unscuessfully these days) and it's been proven that you can't just do it WITH money in baseball - it helps to have good people and good scouts - the red sox have a great amount of money no doubt but they also have a great front office, a great scouting system, in all nations it seems, and that's why to me they would be the 'class' of MLB.
But it's really apples and oranges comparing the two different leagues as they work so differently.
I think people over react to the grizz trade as the conspiracy thing - come on - the grizz wanted to dump gasol quickly and the lakers made the first offer - you got a young stupid GM being pushed by one of the worst owners in sports probably to 'dump gasol asap' - so he took the first offer...maybe the fact that west was in memphis at one point made the lakers the first call - but that's dumb luck - i expect any team with big expiring deals could have gotten gasol if the call went to them first.
I've always wondered if NBA GMs (or GMs in any sport) have a 'group email' or discussion forum type thing where they can put their players 'on the market' easily :)
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See - 3 great examples before Buss - I'm not sure who originally called the lakers the 'yankees' of the NBA but it's really an insult to the lakers and not really indicative of what the yankees do (pretty unscuessfully these days) and it's been proven that you can't just do it WITH money in baseball - it helps to have good people and good scouts - the red sox have a great amount of money no doubt but they also have a great front office, a great scouting system, in all nations it seems, and that's why to me they would be the 'class' of MLB.
But it's really apples and oranges comparing the two different leagues as they work so differently.
I think people over react to the grizz trade as the conspiracy thing - come on - the grizz wanted to dump gasol quickly and the lakers made the first offer - you got a young stupid GM being pushed by one of the worst owners in sports probably to 'dump gasol asap' - so he took the first offer...maybe the fact that west was in memphis at one point made the lakers the first call - but that's dumb luck - i expect any team with big expiring deals could have gotten gasol if the call went to them first.
I've always wondered if NBA GMs (or GMs in any sport) have a 'group email' or discussion forum type thing where they can put their players 'on the market' easily :)
The other thing people conveniently forget is the ONLY reason the Gasol trade actually happened was because Bynum went down with a major injury. Bitch Cupcake admited in an interview on the radio with Mychal Thompson that he only called the Grizz AFTER Bynum was hurt to "restart" trade talks that had died off after no agreements could be made.
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WOnder where gasol would have ended up if bynum didn't go down - interesting cause i'm guessing he would have gone somewhere
Utau - why aren't you real?
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WOnder where gasol would have ended up if bynum didn't go down - interesting cause i'm guessing he would have gone somewhere
Utau - why aren't you real?
About a week after the trade I posted an article about 10 deals the Grizz could have made that were as good, if not better, than the Lakers trade. From the interviews of the Grizz GM it sounds like nobody was calling the guy. Most GM's around the league said the Grizz were asking too much, that is probably why the Lakers broke off trade talks as well. But when Bynum went down the Lakers got on the phone with the Grizz, I wonder why no other GM in the league made an effort to work the Grizz a little more. It's like a sales guy that takes "no" for an answer right off the bat and gives up. Someone making the kind of bucks a GM makes should be working every other GM 24/7 IMO.