Author Topic: Mavs @ SUns  (Read 9209 times)

Offline westkoast

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2008, 07:17:35 PM »
are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?

Los Angeles Lakers

They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.

The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles.   ;)

But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.

FYI,

Sorry to break it to you but...the Spurs have nothing to do with the point of the "reload/rebuild" tangent of this thread.  The Spurs have neither reloaded nor rebuilt to win a title.  TD has won with DRob/TP/Manu as the core.  They were not all together but you can't really say they reloaded since one or more of the core PLUS TD have been there very time.

The Lakers were a completely different team that won titles in the 80's vs the 70's team and they were a completely different team that won titles in the 00's vs the 80's, Green being the exception but I wouldn't condsider Green part of the 80's core, that was Magic/Worthy/Kareem.

I disagree because the 99 team was much different then the 2003 team.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2008, 10:20:00 PM »
are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?

Los Angeles Lakers

They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.

The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles.   ;)

But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.

FYI,

Sorry to break it to you but...the Spurs have nothing to do with the point of the "reload/rebuild" tangent of this thread.  The Spurs have neither reloaded nor rebuilt to win a title.  TD has won with DRob/TP/Manu as the core.  They were not all together but you can't really say they reloaded since one or more of the core PLUS TD have been there very time.

The Lakers were a completely different team that won titles in the 80's vs the 70's team and they were a completely different team that won titles in the 00's vs the 80's, Green being the exception but I wouldn't condsider Green part of the 80's core, that was Magic/Worthy/Kareem.

I disagree because the 99 team was much different then the 2003 team.

Shaq/Kobe was the Lakers core, so it was completely the same.  You might go as far as saying they were reloaded but I don't agree cause there were plenty of "role" players still there on the Lakers bench, so IMO 2003 was not a reload.  With Shaq gone any Lakers team winning a title would be a reload and any Lakers team winning a title without Kobe would be a rebuild.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2008, 10:36:27 PM »
are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?

Los Angeles Lakers

They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.

The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles.   ;)

But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.

FYI,

Sorry to break it to you but...the Spurs have nothing to do with the point of the "reload/rebuild" tangent of this thread.  The Spurs have neither reloaded nor rebuilt to win a title.  TD has won with DRob/TP/Manu as the core.  They were not all together but you can't really say they reloaded since one or more of the core PLUS TD have been there very time.

The Lakers were a completely different team that won titles in the 80's vs the 70's team and they were a completely different team that won titles in the 00's vs the 80's, Green being the exception but I wouldn't condsider Green part of the 80's core, that was Magic/Worthy/Kareem.

I disagree because the 99 team was much different then the 2003 team.

Shaq/Kobe was the Lakers core, so it was completely the same.  You might go as far as saying they were reloaded but I don't agree cause there were plenty of "role" players still there on the Lakers bench, so IMO 2003 was not a reload.  With Shaq gone any Lakers team winning a title would be a reload and any Lakers team winning a title without Kobe would be a rebuild.

The Spurs, not the Lakers.

The 99 team had Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, Duncan, and Robinson as the "core" players.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #18 on: December 06, 2008, 11:26:44 PM »
are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?

Los Angeles Lakers

They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.

The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles.   ;)

But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.

FYI,

Sorry to break it to you but...the Spurs have nothing to do with the point of the "reload/rebuild" tangent of this thread.  The Spurs have neither reloaded nor rebuilt to win a title.  TD has won with DRob/TP/Manu as the core.  They were not all together but you can't really say they reloaded since one or more of the core PLUS TD have been there very time.

The Lakers were a completely different team that won titles in the 80's vs the 70's team and they were a completely different team that won titles in the 00's vs the 80's, Green being the exception but I wouldn't condsider Green part of the 80's core, that was Magic/Worthy/Kareem.

I disagree because the 99 team was much different then the 2003 team.

Shaq/Kobe was the Lakers core, so it was completely the same.  You might go as far as saying they were reloaded but I don't agree cause there were plenty of "role" players still there on the Lakers bench, so IMO 2003 was not a reload.  With Shaq gone any Lakers team winning a title would be a reload and any Lakers team winning a title without Kobe would be a rebuild.

The Spurs, not the Lakers.

The 99 team had Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, Duncan, and Robinson as the "core" players.

TD/DRob = Core, that example does not apply.  Plus by the time they won their 2nd title Parker and Manu were part of the team so IMO DRob cancels out the 99 to 03 reload and Parker/Manu cancel out the 05 and 07 title teams as far as "reloads" to the 03 team.  It's a great job on the Spurs part but I would not consider it a reload or a rebuild just like I don't consider any of the 90's Bulls teams a candidate. 
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"Not his story"

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Offline Lurker

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #19 on: December 07, 2008, 09:22:39 PM »
are there teams (in the nba) out there that realize in time, if not ahead of the curve, that their window is closing/closed instead of making last gasp desperate moves that do nothing but prolong the slow death knell and make 'reloading/rebuilding' even more difficult?

Los Angeles Lakers

They reload and rebuild championship teams faster than anyone in NBA history so far.

The Spurs are also there year after year...they just don't get the big market officiating to win titles.   ;)

But in the Spurs history they have only missed the playoffs 4 or 5 times.

FYI,

Sorry to break it to you but...the Spurs have nothing to do with the point of the "reload/rebuild" tangent of this thread.  The Spurs have neither reloaded nor rebuilt to win a title.  TD has won with DRob/TP/Manu as the core.  They were not all together but you can't really say they reloaded since one or more of the core PLUS TD have been there very time.

The Lakers were a completely different team that won titles in the 80's vs the 70's team and they were a completely different team that won titles in the 00's vs the 80's, Green being the exception but I wouldn't condsider Green part of the 80's core, that was Magic/Worthy/Kareem.

I disagree because the 99 team was much different then the 2003 team.

Shaq/Kobe was the Lakers core, so it was completely the same.  You might go as far as saying they were reloaded but I don't agree cause there were plenty of "role" players still there on the Lakers bench, so IMO 2003 was not a reload.  With Shaq gone any Lakers team winning a title would be a reload and any Lakers team winning a title without Kobe would be a rebuild.

The Spurs, not the Lakers.

The 99 team had Avery Johnson, Sean Elliot, Duncan, and Robinson as the "core" players.

TD/DRob = Core, that example does not apply.  Plus by the time they won their 2nd title Parker and Manu were part of the team so IMO DRob cancels out the 99 to 03 reload and Parker/Manu cancel out the 05 and 07 title teams as far as "reloads" to the 03 team.  It's a great job on the Spurs part but I would not consider it a reload or a rebuild just like I don't consider any of the 90's Bulls teams a candidate. 

There was nothing about reloading/rebuilding for a "title".  It was avbout relaodign and rebuilding.  The Spurs ave constantly done that with Gervin, Artis Gilmore, Mike Mitchell, Alvin Robertson, D-Rob, Elliott, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili.  The Spurs are a constant playoff team year after year.  And it is harder to win titles from outside the playoffs rather than in them.  Name another team that from the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s that has consistantly been in the playoffs.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #20 on: December 07, 2008, 09:40:17 PM »
There was nothing about reloading/rebuilding for a "title".  It was avbout relaodign and rebuilding.  The Spurs ave constantly done that with Gervin, Artis Gilmore, Mike Mitchell, Alvin Robertson, D-Rob, Elliott, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili.  The Spurs are a constant playoff team year after year.  And it is harder to win titles from outside the playoffs rather than in them.  Name another team that from the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s that has consistantly been in the playoffs.

IMO the first and last word in the NBA is CHAMPIONSHIPS.  I could care less if my favorite teams made the playoffs every year since the birth of Christ, it wouldn't mean shyte if they didn't win a title.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #21 on: December 08, 2008, 09:50:00 AM »
There was nothing about reloading/rebuilding for a "title".  It was avbout relaodign and rebuilding.  The Spurs ave constantly done that with Gervin, Artis Gilmore, Mike Mitchell, Alvin Robertson, D-Rob, Elliott, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili.  The Spurs are a constant playoff team year after year.  And it is harder to win titles from outside the playoffs rather than in them.  Name another team that from the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s that has consistantly been in the playoffs.

IMO the first and last word in the NBA is CHAMPIONSHIPS.  I could care less if my favorite teams made the playoffs every year since the birth of Christ, it wouldn't mean shyte if they didn't win a title.

Then I guess it is good you follow one of the larger markets teams that gets regular officiating gifts from the league.  Woe be to you if you actually enjoyed watching a smaller market team that had to struggle with cap issues, revenues and still put a consistantly, competitive team on the floor.  There are two small market teams that have accomplished this for years and IMO that is a lot more of an accomplishment than regualrly buying up the best players to keep making runs at titles.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #22 on: December 08, 2008, 10:14:50 AM »
There was nothing about reloading/rebuilding for a "title".  It was avbout relaodign and rebuilding.  The Spurs ave constantly done that with Gervin, Artis Gilmore, Mike Mitchell, Alvin Robertson, D-Rob, Elliott, Duncan, Parker, Ginobili.  The Spurs are a constant playoff team year after year.  And it is harder to win titles from outside the playoffs rather than in them.  Name another team that from the 70s, 80s, 90s and 2000s that has consistantly been in the playoffs.

IMO the first and last word in the NBA is CHAMPIONSHIPS.  I could care less if my favorite teams made the playoffs every year since the birth of Christ, it wouldn't mean shyte if they didn't win a title.

Then I guess it is good you follow one of the larger markets teams that gets regular officiating gifts from the league.  Woe be to you if you actually enjoyed watching a smaller market team that had to struggle with cap issues, revenues and still put a consistantly, competitive team on the floor.  There are two small market teams that have accomplished this for years and IMO that is a lot more of an accomplishment than regualrly buying up the best players to keep making runs at titles.

Are we talking about baseball or basketball here?  The two large market teams fall into the following:

One is not at the top of the league in spending.

One is at the very top of the league in spending and has not sniffed a championship since the 70s.

The Lakers do not have the highest payroll in the league and really have done a decent job since they moved to LA of not over spending.  You act as if they are the Yankees when they are not.  Plenty of LA residents have actually complained for years both post-threepeat and in the 90s for Jerry Buss *NOT* spending enough money.

I'd tend to agree with you Lurker if teams like the Minnesota Timberwolves, Miami Heat, and Pheonix Suns have not paid for the largest contracts over the past 5 years.   Would make sense if Dallas did not have one of the largest payrolls in the league since 2000.   Kevin Garnett was the highest paid player for a really long time at well over 20 million a year.  The Wolves even managed to find money to bring in key players that would have helped them get to a championship while he was still there.  Now I could be wrong but I don't believe Minnesota is even one of the top 5 markets in this league.   While at the same time realizing that the only super star the Lakers have used their money to get to come to the team has been Shaq.  Over the past 25 years the only big name to be drawn to the city initially based on money is Shaq.  Everyone else was pretty much drafted or traded for.  Including Magic Johnson and Kobe Bryant.

And I don't think Spurs fans can really bring up "gifts" in the playoffs as you guys have had the benefit of the doubt MANY times during your runs.  Most recently being the PHX series.  Let me know when the Lakers are handed the best power forward of all time by the league  :D
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 10:22:38 AM by westkoast »
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #23 on: December 08, 2008, 10:23:17 AM »
And I don't think Spurs fans can really bring up "gifts" in the playoffs as you guys have had the benefit of the doubt MANY times during your runs.  Most recently being the PHX series.  Let me know when the Lakers are handed the best power forward of all time by the league  :D

Do you really want to talk about gifts of PFs?

And over the years the Lakers have purchased (by outright contracts or endorsements) more stars and role players than any team in the league.  Do you really want to go back and talk about some of the various gifts the Lakers have received?  Even to the point where the league had to create a new rule: the Stepian rule?
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #24 on: December 08, 2008, 10:25:03 AM »
And I don't think Spurs fans can really bring up "gifts" in the playoffs as you guys have had the benefit of the doubt MANY times during your runs.  Most recently being the PHX series.  Let me know when the Lakers are handed the best power forward of all time by the league  :D

Do you really want to talk about gifts of PFs?

And over the years the Lakers have purchased (by outright contracts or endorsements) more stars and role players than any team in the league.  Do you really want to go back and talk about some of the various gifts the Lakers have received?  Even to the point where the league had to create a new rule: the Stepian rule?

If you want to bring up Pau Gasol I have two answers:

1) Didn't realize you thought he was better than Tim Duncan, maybe you need more coffee

2) You got Tim Duncan for NOTHING.  The Lakers gave up Marc Gasol and money.  Marc Gasol seems to be coming along nicely.  In fact he is well on his way to being a quality big man.

Let's list all the super stars over the past 25 years who were drawn to the Lakers from another team based on money:









Shaq.

The Lakers are the 6th highest spending franchise in the leauge behind such huge market heavy weights as the Portland Trailblazers, Cavs, and Mavericks.  They haven't been the top spending team in the league pretty much since I've been on the planet.  Stop trying to make this out to be Yankees-esque.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 10:29:18 AM by westkoast »
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #25 on: December 08, 2008, 10:40:16 AM »
Shaq.

The Lakers are the 6th highest spending franchise in the leauge behind such huge market heavy weights as the Portland Trailblazers, Cavs, and Mavericks.  They haven't been the top spending team in the league pretty much since I've been on the planet.  Stop trying to make this out to be Yankees-esque.

Exactly.  The only time the Lakers are mentioned along with big names is when the Lakers are being used as leverage.  I would love for Lurker to list all the "big names" that signed with the Lakers.  The only ones I can think of are Shaq, Malone, Payton and Gasol.  Only Shaq and Gasol were in their primes and commanding large salaries.  The Lakers just happen to be one of the best teams in the league for drafting and developing talent through the draft.  The "big market" and "big spending" argument is stupid crap that should be left for places like Fanhome.
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Offline Reality

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #26 on: December 08, 2008, 11:39:13 AM »
Exactly.  The only time the Lakers are mentioned along with big names is when the Lakers are being used as leverage.  I would love for Lurker to list all the "big names" that signed with the Lakers.  The only ones I can think of are Shaq, Malone, Payton and Gasol.  Only Shaq and Gasol were in their primes and commanding large salaries.  The Lakers just happen to be one of the best teams in the league for drafting and developing talent through the draft.  The "big market" and "big spending" argument is stupid crap that should be left for places like Fanhome.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #27 on: December 08, 2008, 11:47:38 AM »
.......................................

 ::)
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

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Offline Lurker

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #28 on: December 08, 2008, 11:59:24 AM »
Okay Laker nosers..real Laker fans just keep reading on...

Go back and examine how the Lakers were able to draft James Worthy.  Talk about gifts.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Mavs @ SUns
« Reply #29 on: December 08, 2008, 12:53:02 PM »
Okay Laker nosers..real Laker fans just keep reading on...

Go back and examine how the Lakers were able to draft James Worthy.  Talk about gifts.

"draft" is correct.  I thought it was about "buying"?  Just let me know what you want to CHANGE to discussion to so I can keep up.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"