Who (for sure) released the photos

[Ted]

If we find out where this hacksaw job happened, here's what I would do.

Surround the place (a city block, neighborhood, etc) cut it off completely using as many troops as you have to use. Broadcast over the TV, radio, loudspeakers, and leaflets to the populice to evacuate the area within one week because we are going level it to the ground. Set up barriers and check points and check every single person coming through for nationality, criminal records, wanted lists, etc. If they're not from Iraq, they go into custody immediately until we can verify why we're there. And when we're done checking people out of there and we've made sure all of the old, handicapped or disabled people are out, as someone on the board said, we turn the place into glass, but I would probably use napalm over a nuke.

[SPURSX3]

i just read something that there may be about 1600 unpublished photo's of the stuff that went on at that prison....who was developing the film?  why didnt THEY say anything?  how long did they know?  can you believe that?

[Ted]

dude how could you let your wife watch that?  i would have seriously told mine i wa against it... it was hard for me to watch, i am still having some flashback to what LITTLE i did see of the actual act, i have nothing but contempt right now for those b@stards.....I am all for sending more than ampel troops, more than necessary weapons, and clamping down with severity on the whole country, purge them and give these cowardly f*&*s a lesson in real power, if they love "terror" so much we should make them feel it by making them run back to their holes and then blowing them to kingdom come when we find them there...

yeah, i am a little angry too right now about it all...

There's no way in hell I'm watching that. Just visualizing it is sickening enough to me.

One question SpursX3, did it show the whole act close up? Oh man, it's so sad to even think about it.

[Ted]

i just read something that there may be about 1600 unpublished photo's of the stuff that went on at that prison....who was developing the film?  why didnt THEY say anything?  how long did they know?  can you believe that?

I think the photos came straight from the Defense department and are probably all digital photos. But I'm pretty sure the army provides photo development for the military. It's likely most of them came straight out of the military.

[SPURSX3]

If we find out where this hacksaw job happened, here's what I would do.

Surround the place (a city block, neighborhood, etc) cut it off completely using as many troops as you have to use. Broadcast over the TV, radio, loudspeakers, and leaflets to the populice to evacuate the area within one week because we are going level it to the ground. Set up barriers and check points and check every single person coming through for nationality, criminal records, wanted lists, etc. If they're not from Iraq, they go into custody immediately until we can verify why we're there. And when we're done checking people out of there and we've made sure all of the old, handicapped or disabled people are out, as someone on the board said, we turn the place into glass, but I would probably use napalm over a nuke.

problem is Ted, the they probably did this in the one place we wont go into, a freaking mosque!  i would put money on that.  you know if something ever happenned and the united states got over run, and we tried to hide out in churches, do you think they wold not attack us because we were in a church or house of God?  I think we would get torn to shreads in those churches because other people wouldnt give a lick to care about that, but we do, we try not to step on toes, not to offend - war IS offensive and yet we allow them to hide out ine holey sites.......

[SPURSX3]

dude how could you let your wife watch that?  i would have seriously told mine i wa against it... it was hard for me to watch, i am still having some flashback to what LITTLE i did see of the actual act, i have nothing but contempt right now for those b@stards.....I am all for sending more than ampel troops, more than necessary weapons, and clamping down with severity on the whole country, purge them and give these cowardly f*&*s a lesson in real power, if they love "terror" so much we should make them feel it by making them run back to their holes and then blowing them to kingdom come when we find them there...

yeah, i am a little angry too right now about it all...

There's no way in hell I'm watching that. Just visualizing it is sickening enough to me.

One question SpursX3, did it show the whole act close up? Oh man, it's so sad to even think about it.

close enough ted, you can see his face enough to know he was alive with his head halfway off........

the whole thing is disgusting Ted, worse than anything i have ever seen, i am not kdding about the image flashbacks....it is THAT disturbing....

[JoMal]

The contents and attitudes expressed in this thread perturb me.

When a free country like the U.S. is attacked, (which also is THE super power on the planet) as we were on 9/11 (and does anyone else wonder why they chose a date that has such a melodious sound to it for easy and quick reference?), it can shock the free world. Not only for the ramifications to their own safety, but regards how we might respond to the attack.

After Bush successfully destroyed much of the existing good international relations we had with many of these other countries by invading Iraq, my own prophecy soon was fulfulled. Which was, watching the mourning exhibited soon after 9/11, I wondered how these same mourners will react after future atrocities are carried out, both by Americans and by the fanatical enemies of our society.

As the death toll for Americans killed both in Iraq and Afghanistan climb passed another thousand to add to the thousands killed in 2001, we face no end to any sort of satisfactory conclusion to hostilities. We have no satisfactory exit plan for either country. We have no local government force that can in any way survive the absence of American troops. We have no workable policy to spare civilians while shooting the terrorists hiding behind them and using them as shields. We have an extremely nervous Arab world watching with trepidation regarding how far these publicized atrocities, normal to them, but horrifying to a sheltered American public, will go on before extensive retaliation occurs or we DO leave these countries to the street celebrations of the organized terrorists who will declare it a victory and accept thousands more recruits because of it.


ROCK u.s.a. HARD PLACE

Welcome, everyone, to our future.

While I really can understand WOW's perspective, in that we have plenty of problems locally to keep our minds and animosity more within our lines of sight rather than globally, this, of course, is a well-known trait recognized by these international terrorists and exploited to the fullest. WOW, as do most Americans, don't really want to look too far for too long outside the borders at what is going on. When they do, they want the U.S. to flex those superpower muscles like Superman and crush the nasties into nuclear pulp so they can go back to watching the "pendejos" living on their own block instead of some "towel head" halfway across the world.

I just wish we lived in a world where we could chose one over the other to worry about. Concerns over young black and Hispanic males, or sex offenders, or rapists right here at home are problems that are not going anywhere either. Neither those annoying terrorist attacks against Americans and American interests worldwide.

But it is that commitment thing that bothers me. Without outrageous videos, or prison abuse photos, or the media hyping for both sides, and any other way in which this disagreement can be exploited for maximum exposure, would this conflict have a better chance of being resolved?

Just as the war popularity started to die down, we suddenly get a media exclusive on prison abuse, an outraged public, and then a hideous video indicating a direct and horrible consequence. Seems convenient to efforts to help stir up patriotic feelings for the cause on both sides.

[gaither]

I don't think the photos of prison abuse carried out by American soldiers should have been censored. Their very release brought those guilty of misconduct (to put it in its most mild terms) to accountability. The more Americans know about what is actually happening on the ground in Iraq, the better able we are to influence the policies that allow these abuses to continue unchecked. And as much as I dislike the media at times for their infatuation with all things sensational, I am glad they are around to at least increase the chances that we (Americans) get something closer to the whole story.

As for the release of the photos sparking more violence or retailiation against Americans, that would have happened anyway. Some Muslim extremist groups have a thirst for blood and revenge that will never be satisfied. And since when did Al Queda need justification in order to carry out their barbaric and terroristic acts?! (We now have proof that they are the ones behind the decapitation of Berg.) And judging by the denunciations of this act by several Arab nations, I think that this barbaric killing of an American civilian will backfire on those who carried the act out.

[westkoast]

This country should NOT have the authority to sensor the media.

However, the media should take responsibility for the consequences of its reporting.

Showing these prison beatings was obviously going to provoke retaliation. When you stumble onto a story like this, that has to be taken into consideration. If they couldn't see that Muslim's would retaliate, then they need their heads examined and a little bit of common sense implanted. If they did see retaliation, and simply didn't care, then they are immoral people only concerned about the buck. They should head on up here to west chester, and apologize directly to his family, because if it weren't for them their son would likely still be alive.

With the ability to influence the masses some level of accountability needs to be taken. When reporting something is obviously going to cost the lives of innocent men (and anyone with half a brain would have realized reporting this would have), I think it's their duty not to put our boys in jeopardy. Not to withdraw anything out of political concern, but out of life concerns.

------------------------------
On a related note to piss poor media:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=38464

Boston Globe publishes
bogus GI rape pictures
Taken from pornographic website
as first reported by WorldNetDaily

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: May 12, 2004
12:15 p.m. Eastern


By Sherrie Gossett
© 2004 WorldNetDaily.com

Boston residents got more than they bargained for this morning when their copy of the Globe came complete with graphic photographic images depicting U.S. troops gang-raping Iraqi women.

Problem is the photos are fake. They were taken from pornographic websites and disseminated by anti-American propagandists, as first reported by WND a week ago.


WND contacted the Globe to question staff about the photos.

Asked whether the photos were the same as the porn photos WND already investigated, reporter Donovan Slack said, "I have no idea. I'm surprised the editor even decided we should write about it."

She added: "Oh my God, I'm scared to answer the phone today."

"It's insane," said Slack. "Can you imagine getting this with your cup of coffee in the morning? Somehow it got through all our checks. Our publisher's not having a very good day today."

Slack sent the photos to WND, which immediately confirmed they were the same porn photos reported on last week.

Responding to an e-mail request from the Globe, WND furnished the true source of the photos, and walked Slack through the "Sex In War" site over the phone, so she could see the photos matched.

I'll take the 'Five days for $15' deal," Slack quipped, adding, "This is ridiculous. I'll be working at Penthouse soon."

The photos accompanied an article about Boston city councilor Chuck Turner, who distributed the graphic photographs yesterday at a press conference with activist Sadiki Kambon. Turner told reporters the photos showed U.S. soldiers raping Iraqi women.

"The American people have a right and responsibility to see the pictures," Turner said.

Kambon, who is director of the Black Community Information Center, said at the news conference he received the photographs by e-mail from Akbar Muhammad, a representative for the Nation of Islam.

The Globe was provided with a statement by Muhammad who wrote, "There aren't any doubts in my mind about the reports on torture of Iraqi prisoners. All you have to do is look at the pictures of Saddam Hussein after his capture when he was being examined on television across the world. He appeared to be drugged and unaware that he was being filmed to be humiliated and disgraced in front of the entire world."

As WND previously reported, the pornographic 'rape' images were carried, among other venues, on the website for the Committee for the Defense of Saddam Hussein.

In the letter given to the globe, Muhammad termed reservists, "raving beasts," and added, "I was fortunate enough to make copies of the pictures before they became unavailable on the Internet."

The pictures are still on the porn site "Sex In War" and appeared in several Arabic newspapers.

Muhammad also called for the resignation of Rumsfeld.

Turner and Kambon told the Globe they don't know where or when the photos they distributed yesterday were taken. But Turner said they came from a "very legitimate person."

"We cannot document their authenticity," he told reporters. "But you have the ability to do that."

The Globe published the photographic images despite the fact a skeptical Slack had raised serious doubts about them and was not able to verify their authenticity. Slack was assigned to report on the press conference and did not approve of the photos being published. The photos were approved for publication by three Boston Globe editors.

In the article the Boston Globe ran with the photos, Slack underscored her skepticism: "The images, depicting men in camouflage uniforms having sex with unidentified women, bear no characteristics that would prove the men are U.S. soldiers or that the women are Iraqis. And there is nothing apparent in the images showing they were taken in Iraq. Unlike the photographs widely publicized last week, the images appear to have been taken outdoors in a sandy area with hills in the background."

Ironically, a simple "Google/news" search using the terms "Iraq rape photos" would have proven the photos were fake and the story groundless. Specifically, the search would have retrieved WND's series on the photos as well as a statement issued the day after WND's expose (May 5) by the U.S. Embassy in Cairo confirming that the photos were fake and demanding that Arab newspapers that had carried the photos publish retractions. In addition, WND's expose of the photos was mentioned at Monday's White House press briefing.

A source with the Globe said the controversy already had reached the president of the New York Times, who reportedly is furious. The Boston Globe is owned by the New York Times Co.

Turner said he and Kambon were distributing the photos to force the Bush administration to release additional documentation of abuses, which Turner said are not limited to the prison, west of Baghdad.

At the time of publication of this report, Turner and Kambon were not available for comment.

So far, the Globe hasn't published a retraction. However, as posted on the Free Republic website, a reader who wrote the Globe's ombudsman, Christine Chinlund, received the following e-mail reply:


The Globe should not have run the photo. It appeared as the result of a miscommunication between photo staffers, and a collapse of the usual "checks and balances" system. In my next column I will provide a more detailed explanation of how this lamentable mistake happened.
Sincerely,

Chris Chinlund
Globe Ombud

Chinlund's response ended with the following P.S.: "Can you tell me which website is providing the copy for letters like yours? Thanks."

Ok im not saying that its ok to provoke more terrorism.  I also am stunned that the middle east is stuck in the dark ages......however, as much as this has stirred up emotions in the US, the US got themselves into this.  Not the media.  If they were actually paying attention to this kind of abuse of prisoners then this wouldnt have got released and the people in the middle east wouldn't be as angry as they are.  The people in charge over there had to have known something about these prisoners getting beat.  I do not believe they had no idea and couldn't have done a thing.  Who knows if this is the only time this has happend?

Are we there to beat em, kill em, and sacrifice American lives......or are we there to try to help them establish some kind of foundation for a new country?  Kinda seems like we've done more of the first than the second.

[gaither]

...The people in charge over there had to have known something about these prisoners getting beat.  I do not believe they had no idea and couldn't have done a thing.  Who knows if this is the only time this has happend?

Are we there to beat em, kill em, and sacrifice American lives......or are we there to try to help them establish some kind of foundation for a new country?  Kinda seems like we've done more of the first than the second.

Agree. The Red Cross and other groups were reporting instances of abuse as early as a year ago (after we supposedly "won" the war). There was plenty of time for the US government/military to get a hold of this problem. And I don't believe for a second that the folks in these videos and pictures were doing this without the blessing and knowledge of higher military authority.

While the people of Iraq were initially glad to be relieved to be rid of Saddam Hussein, the truth is America's intervention was never wanted in Iraq. There was little chance of successfully rebuilding the foundation of this country without the support of the world and the Iraqi people.

[spursfan101]

If we find out where this hacksaw job happened, here's what I would do.

Surround the place (a city block, neighborhood, etc) cut it off completely using as many troops as you have to use. Broadcast over the TV, radio, loudspeakers, and leaflets to the populice to evacuate the area within one week because we are going level it to the ground. Set up barriers and check points and check every single person coming through for nationality, criminal records, wanted lists, etc. If they're not from Iraq, they go into custody immediately until we can verify why we're there. And when we're done checking people out of there and we've made sure all of the old, handicapped or disabled people are out, as someone on the board said, we turn the place into glass, but I would probably use napalm over a nuke.

You have all the answers. Like something like that would advance our cause. More like unite the Muslim world.

[JoMal]

I am not a fan of wars that cater to the media.

The first Gulf War was put into everyone's living room in this country with such a huge American media bias that no real breaking news could ever be taken at face value. It helped launch the embedding of media in just about every point of the war this time. The media clearly has become the means by which both combatants incite anger and unity for there cause.

The intel over WMD's was the excuse used by Bush (and excitedly reported by the media) for invading Iraq, but now we know the information was completely fraudulent. We also did not invade Iraq to bring democracy to the people there, but that was what we were told once the WMD theory got blown up by the media reporting contrary facts. You cannot forcefeed a political system onto an invaded country, but with the media's help, this is the lie the Bush administration is telling us.

In the Arab media world we could anticipate what eventually would occur as well, and is exactly what the Iraqi's and their Arab terrorists friends have done - use the invasion to unite them all to throw the invaders out. Once the invaders leave, regardless of how it occurs, they can claim victory and go back to running their country's like things are always run in the Arab world, by a select handful of despots who use torture, and murder to control their power.

The point is that this is a media killing ground over societorial differences this war will not resolve. The frequent atrocities soon will be too frequently reported for the sensibilities of the American population to accept. Bush's lack of foresight in the invasion of Iraq without understanding where it might lead is constantly forcing his administration to come up with reasons for it that the gullible American viewers will not only accept, but keep them fired up over the war.

There will be no victors from this war, but there will be plenty of victims. Your grandchildren may yet get to fight in it, because the absence of an exit strategy means there cannot be an exudus without shame, and as Bush has shown that means he will be throwing more manpower into the fight for years to come.    

[Lurker]

There will be no victors from this war, but there will be plenty of victims. Your grandchildren may yet get to fight in it, because the absence of an exit strategy means there cannot be an exudus without shame, and as Bush has shown that means he will be throwing more manpower into the fight for years to come.

Sounds more like Vietnam II rather than Gulf War II.   It is just a matter of time before the American people will grow tired of watching their children die for Bush's war.  Since WWII no Bush has served in the military.  You don't hear about the kids or grandkids of the top Pentagon/White House officials being shipped overseas.  Bush messed this one up big time and there is no solution that will allow the US to extract itself from Iraq in a way that will save face.  THERE IS NO EXIT STRATEGY!  And short of "conquering" the world there never will be.

I still say the way to go is just pull out.  Bring our military home (bad idea for Bush as then there are more workers that need employment) and let whomever can gain control take charge in Iraq.  Who cares if they are friendly to the US or not....odds are they won't be.  If they set up terrorist camps or make moves to injure Americans then go back in.  However to attack another nation as vengence for a job your dad screwed up is not justifiable.

Hopefully we won't have this drag on for another four years as Bush & his cronies continue to kill off Americans for their own selfish purposes.

[JoMal]

Who cares if they are friendly to the US or not....odds are they won't be.  If they set up terrorist camps or make moves to injure Americans then go back in.  However to attack another nation as vengence for a job your dad screwed up is not justifiable.

 

Bush senior did not finish the job the first time because he promised the Arab world he would just get Iraq out of Kuwait. With that promise I would think came a sigh of relieve, because unlike the son, the father knew only too well that extracating the U.S. from Iraq would be fraught with problems both within the Arab world and at home.

When Saddam essentially thumbed his nose at the UN inspectors and the U.S. in particular, baiting them both with innuendos of WMD through his select informers who undoubtedly were still working for Hussain, he opened his country up for the excuse Bush Jr. was looking for to dispose of him. His bad, but our curse.

[westkoast]

...The people in charge over there had to have known something about these prisoners getting beat.  I do not believe they had no idea and couldn't have done a thing.  Who knows if this is the only time this has happend?

Are we there to beat em, kill em, and sacrifice American lives......or are we there to try to help them establish some kind of foundation for a new country?  Kinda seems like we've done more of the first than the second.

Agree. The Red Cross and other groups were reporting instances of abuse as early as a year ago (after we supposedly "won" the war). There was plenty of time for the US government/military to get a hold of this problem. And I don't believe for a second that the folks in these videos and pictures were doing this without the blessing and knowledge of higher military authority.

While the people of Iraq were initially glad to be relieved to be rid of Saddam Hussein, the truth is America's intervention was never wanted in Iraq. There was little chance of successfully rebuilding the foundation of this country without the support of the world and the Iraqi people.

I just find it very hard to believe that US troops still fighting in Iraq have time where they can get into a cell, beat some prisoners, and then walk out like nothing happend.  Then to top it off the top guys on the soil never hear a peep from the prisoners while this is happening or from someone who has pull that is honest.  With everything that is going on out there how could every single troop not be accounted for at all times?

I will go as far to say that I think the media did the right thing by putting that out there.  If they didn't we probably never would have heard about it and nothing may have been done about it.  American's are always wondering why so many other countries have a problem with us when we are out there helping them out.  I'm sure they have a better idea now.  This wouldn't have been the first time funny business has gone on.  The media was too busy painting the US as the unstopable real life gi-joe spin off of the cartoon last time we were in the gulf.  Always there doing nothing but good and never hurting anyone :rolleyes: