Larry Brown best rebuilder ever

[Reality]

My butt hurts.  Please let me continue to hide but live vicariously thru your posts 

As posted word for word by WeakOutWest:
WayOutWest
Thread:  Congratulations Clippers
Reply #1 on: May 02, 2006, 09:52:58 AM ?
   

Regardless of who wins between the Lakers and Suns, the Clippers should be well on their way to the WCF!

[westkoast]

The teeny tiny irrelevant point of the play that made it 3-2 in favor of one team or the other.
You're the one that needs to STFU! 

HOW DOES THAT PLAY MEAN THE CLIPPERS ARE BETTER THAN THE SUNS?!

It doesn't.  At all.  You are a moron.  The point about how you defend in that situation doesn't apply to a debate on which team is better really.  If anything, like I told you before, it means the Clippers ARE NOT the better team.

- The Clippers suffered injuries (but ignored the fact the Suns didn't have Amare Stoudamire)
True.  But shouldn't Amare being out for the series yet MeGette being back have increased the chances for the Clippers to win?
Are you going to address the other Clippers out, like Shaun Livingston?or 

It should have INCREASED the chances for the Clippers to dominate the Suns in the regular season and in the playoffs since you think they are the better team........but what happened?  They only TIED the season series and LOST in the playoffs.

Shaun Livingston is now more important than Amare Stoudamire?   Are you purposely being an idiot now?

- The Clippers tied the Suns in the regular season series so they are automatically equal in the standings regardless that the Suns won more games overall
A fabrication made by you.

Not fabricated at all.  In fact when I told you the Suns were better because they had a high seeding, won the division, and had the overall better record your response was that they went 2-2 in the regular season.  It's just 2 pages ago Reality and you are quoted.  Do you honestly think either myself or anyone else forgot you saying that just 2 pages ago? 

- The Suns were NOT the better team because the Clippers were the ones who messed up the Raja Bell 3 play, it wasn't that the Suns offense was superior
You are learning.  Again, a team with a 3 point lead and only a 1 second inbound play to defend most definitely has the upper hand.  Yes a kindergardener level basketball mind knows that.  Oh i see W.O.W. is here.  He would not know.

Again, its KINDERGARTEN.  Please don't try to insult people while pronouncing and spelling the word like a child.\.

That play proves the Suns are better than the Clippers, that is why they won the game.  There is literally no angle to argue otherwise.  None.  If the Clippers were the better team than that play never would have went down.

Oh btw, hows that psychic job working out?  You seem to firmly believe if the Clippers stopped that play they would have easily won the series.  Not sure you are aware of this but if that point in time changed that doesn't mean everything else would stay exactly the same.

- Even though the Suns won the playoff series it wasn't because the Clippers sucked but because Dunleavy sucked (hmm where have we heard this theme)
I posted Dunleavy told the Clips to defend against the trey during the timeout.
As to where have "we" heard Dunleavy sucks, plenty of NBA observers.  Whats W.O.W. posted about him? 

That sole play was not the only reason why they lost the series.

Now as to addressing your post, you've sidetracked on:
You'll find in my writings a thread i did on Best Record = Championships?  While home court advantage for the Finals wins at a good clip, the reg season best record is certainly not the key to a playoffs run.  Now as to the Suns, have not you two seen enough of their glitzy reg season record only to fail during the playoffs?  Granted, they ran into the healthy Timmy Dunkan Spurs at times when the Spurs were so good they could overcome Pops incompetence.

You are really serious arent you?  You really are trying to say we are side tracking, in a thread that started off about Larry Brown and is ending up being Clippers vs Suns, and you bring up regular season records and the correlation to championships? 

Oh and the Spurs overcame the Suns, IN PART, by Horry hip checking Nash that led to the suspensions of Amare/Diaw.  What's really funny is you continue to ignore this over and over.  One could only imagine how bad you would harp on it if Horry was in purple and yellow instead of grey and black.

The game changes during the playoffs vs regular season.  Gets more physical, court shortens up.  The run n gun Suns putting up YMCA numbers simply failed to produce a title.  Actually the same thing happened to Nash in Dallas.  Please refrain from usual stupid comments "So you're saying Nash is all to blame for Dallas and Phxs failures?"  I'm saying Nash had a fantastic year.  Indeed the Suns had to come back from a 1-3 deficit in round 1 to the LA Lakers!  Cheesy  Which leads to a second point you use.

What does producing a title have to do with the Suns vs Clippers?!?!?!?

Did you just talk about me getting side tracked and you are just typing to type?

Nash was MVP.  Since I am talking about a playoff game between Clips and Suns, don't wanna get too sidetracked on the regular season MVP.  Notice what i wrote above about the differences between playoff ball and reg season ball?  Timmy Dunks played the entire reg season and playoffs with severe plantar facias yet still owned Dork Novitiski and the Mavs in what should have been a back to back Championship.  Nash had a fantastic reg season, no doubt.  MVP?  Not in my book.  At any rate who was on the voting list?  Westkoast you said Timmy Dunks was #7 in the lame sportswriters voting.  It was actually....

NO ONE GIVES A FLYING F ABOUT 'YOUR BOOK'  This is what I am trying to explain to you.  You are so into yourself and think so highly of yourself that you actually believe 'your book' is the only truth and everyone else is idiots for not agreeing with you.  I understand if it happened here and there where you firmly had an argument but it literally happens each week on here.  Facts dont outweight your own opinion of how you want things to go.  That is not living in 'Reality' that is being a child.

Losing your second best player, a 40 and 15 guy on many nights (god can only imagine the insane amount of hyping you'd do if Blair posted a game like this), abnd still manging to sit at the top of the playoffs is really what the MVP is about.  Nash is so valuable to his team that he can make them a contender even when they took a HUGE BLOW to Amare's knee injury.

Elton Brand.  Eltie Brand had a career best in what had been an already excellent career.  24/10 along with excellent D.  I have no problem with Eltie getting MVP votes and he would have been much higher then 7th in my voting
Props to Nash for the reg season without Amare.  Now as to the difference between reg season and playoffs.....

Oh so you like pure stats now?  When Kobe was leading in many pure stats in the league you wanted to ignore them.  When Brand does it then you like to use em lol.  Why would a team that finished SIXTH in the conference have the MVP?  Use your nogging.

Nash didn't have Amare for the playoffs either.  You have no ground to stand on.  The difference between playoff basketball and regular season basketball has little to nothing to do with your side of the argument.  Now if the Clippers WON the playoff series and you wanted to say 'The Suns had a great regular season but they lost in the playoffs to the better team' then it would make sense.  Problem is even though there is a difference between regular season and playoff basketball.......THE CLIPPERS STILL LOST THE SERIES.

[westkoast]

You may have been too busy watching Kobes Bryant lead the Lakers to a .500 record and Vancil probably doesn't even know where or what California is.
westkoast i think you will be reasonable on this injury point but if not, lets just compare the Lakers season and playoffs with and without their #2 guy.

No, the Suns lost their second best player and their inside game with Amare going down.  So really injuries are not worth bringing up as an excuse to try to spin this in your favor.   If you want to bring up injuries than once again it proves the Suns are the better team because of what they accomplished even with out their all-star.

Losing a 17 and 5 player for 38 games is not quite the same as losing a guy who was 26 and 9 the year before for the entire season.  Let's not even talk about playoff contributions between the two either.  Amare has gone off for 40 point 15 rebound games in the playoffs. 

westkoast, why bother arguing with an idiot?  What an idiot does is get you down to his level and then beats you with experience.    I forget if that's how it goes or where I heard/read it but it cracks me up.  Moronity wants to use "injuries" to help his argument and in the same breath disses a .500 club who was at the TOP of the division then lost 2 or 3 starters.  Does that idiot realize that he's dissing the Clippers by dissing the .500 Lakers? They had the exact same problem with injures, at the top of the heap record wise but then tumble after injuries.  Does that idiot realize that?  Probably not, he's too stupid to carry on a legit debate.

How did this thread about Larry Brown being a rebuilder, which other have pointed out he is clearly NOT, turned into a debate about the Clippers vs the Suns?  Leave it to Retardity to spin so far away from being OWNED again in HIS thread that he's dragged you and Joe to the outer limits of the "spin zone".  Do you guys STILL not see the value of the "Ignore" feature?

Carry on with your ownage but beating a retard gets borring after a while.

Simply put I am continuing to harp on this because I am tired of him 'idiot-ing' his way out of debates by posting so much crap and trying to go so far off path that eventually people give up and he thinks he 'won' the debate.  That is really what it is about.    He hates all things Lakers and all Laker fans so it's expected hes done it to us for years.  After Joe Vancil was actually trying to be civil and debate with Reality, only to get a true taste of how frustrating it is when he does his typical 'debating' style, I finally realized that if you just let him slide he will forever think he is always right around here.  It isn't just 'All Laker fans are idiots' in his mind it is really and truly 'Anyone who doesn't agree with me doesn't know anything, never knew anything, and will never know anything'

I agree with you, you are right, I shouldn't continue on with this but its amusing.  Plus it is like sharpening up your knife on a DULL object. 

[Joe Vancil]

True.  But shouldn't Amare being out for the series yet MeGette being back have increased the chances for the Clippers to win?

Only if the Clippers were the better team.  But they weren't - as proven both by the season records and the outcome of the series.

A better team overcomes a mistake.  The Clippers didn't.  It's a failed organization, and losing is so embedded in the organization that at any given time, collapse is just a second away.  Exactly as demonstrated.

[Joe Vancil]

Joe V Now that Reality's thunder for that statement has been effectively stolen, perhaps he'll address the questions posed to him in this thread.  But if you want a safer bet, bet that he'll harp on my OKC prediction.

And this "safer bet" you just made has the same result as your mega failed OKC prediction.  Which you are still butthurt over.  Wow, I've been willing to move on for quite some time.  What's it going to take to get you to sincerely get over it?

Called by me, directly in his quote.  Even when completely off-topic and irrelevant, he STILL couldn't bear to leave it alone - even though he's calling other people for being off-topic in this thread.

Hey, Reality - These aren't the 'droids you're looking for.

[WayOutWest]

Simply put I am continuing to harp on this because I am tired of him 'idiot-ing' his way out of debates by posting so much crap and trying to go so far off path that eventually people give up and he thinks he 'won' the debate.  That is really what it is about.    He hates all things Lakers and all Laker fans so it's expected hes done it to us for years.  After Joe Vancil was actually trying to be civil and debate with Reality, only to get a true taste of how frustrating it is when he does his typical 'debating' style, I finally realized that if you just let him slide he will forever think he is always right around here.  It isn't just 'All Laker fans are idiots' in his mind it is really and truly 'Anyone who doesn't agree with me doesn't know anything, never knew anything, and will never know anything'

I agree with you, you are right, I shouldn't continue on with this but its amusing.  Plus it is like sharpening up your knife on a DULL object. 

I'm pretty sure everyone on this board knows that Reality can not win any debate so he skirts away like a ballroom dancing princess.  He finally bored me to death so I just ignore him.  I began ignoring your quotes of him as well but when I saw Joe get sucked into the vortex of stupidiity I couldn't help but look.  Retardity tries to hard to deflect and project his stupidity on to others but it's way too easy to see through it and use against him.  It's sad.   

[Wolverine]

Hey, Reality - These aren't the 'droids you're looking for.

 

[rickortreat]

Larry isn't a primarily a team builder, he just takes a team and gets more out of it that most.  He is an excellent teacher and teaches sound, fundamental basketball.  Larry stands out, only because so many other NBA coaches aren't nearly as good.

But to say he doesn't build at all is absurd, since it usually takes a few seasons and a couple of trades and draft picks before he turns a team around. 

In his time with the Sixers he went through a number of players, helped select them, lobbied for them, got them and then decided they couldn't play or wouldn't.  He is a better judge of talent and sees how individual players can play together and become more than the sum of their parts.  But he's also a carpetbagger, and players get tired of him after a while, or he gets tired of them.

[Lurker]

Larry isn't a primarily a team builder, he just takes a team and gets more out of it that most.  He is an excellent teacher and teaches sound, fundamental basketball.  Larry stands out, only because so many other NBA coaches aren't nearly as good.

And this is why he wins at both the college and pro level.  Especially the teaching part.  But in the NBA he grates on the pros nerves within 2-3 years.  He had long stints in Indy and Philly but most of the time wears out his welcome fast.  And because he always wins when he firsts arrives another job is always available.

At the NCAA level he isn't a strong recruiter.  Great teacher of the talent that is there when he arrives but again fizzles out when he has to pick (recruit) the talent. Same pattern...teaches fundamentals and wins.  Gets involved in personnel decisions and things sour and he moves on.

But to say he doesn't build at all is absurd, since it usually takes a few seasons and a couple of trades and draft picks before he turns a team around. 

In his time with the Sixers he went through a number of players, helped select them, lobbied for them, got them and then decided they couldn't play or wouldn't.  He is a better judge of talent and sees how individual players can play together and become more than the sum of their parts.  But he's also a carpetbagger, and players get tired of him after a while, or he gets tired of them.

See above comments.  You are right about Philly though; he thrived there for a long time.  IMO it was because he and the top player (Iverson) had a solid relationship.  Brown joined the Sixers in Iverson's second season, 97/98.  And took that core team on a great run to the finals in 2001.  He was there only 2 more years after that before moving to Detroit and the pattern returns.

[Reality]

Larry isn't a primarily a team builder, he just takes a team and gets more out of it that most.  He is an excellent teacher and teaches sound, fundamental basketball.  Larry stands out, only because so many other NBA coaches aren't nearly as good.

But to say he doesn't build at all is absurd, since it usually takes a few seasons and a couple of trades and draft picks before he turns a team around. 

In his time with the Sixers he went through a number of players, helped select them, lobbied for them, got them and then decided they couldn't play or wouldn't.  He is a better judge of talent and sees how individual players can play together and become more than the sum of their parts.  But he's also a carpetbagger, and players get tired of him after a while, or he gets tired of them.

No rickertreat, Larry Brown is not a good builder nor does he get the most out of his teams.  Why?
Because the Suns beat the Dunleavy Clippers and because Jerry West took the call for Shaq to be marketed to the Lakers. 

[westkoast]

Larry isn't a primarily a team builder, he just takes a team and gets more out of it that most.  He is an excellent teacher and teaches sound, fundamental basketball.  Larry stands out, only because so many other NBA coaches aren't nearly as good.

But to say he doesn't build at all is absurd, since it usually takes a few seasons and a couple of trades and draft picks before he turns a team around. 

In his time with the Sixers he went through a number of players, helped select them, lobbied for them, got them and then decided they couldn't play or wouldn't.  He is a better judge of talent and sees how individual players can play together and become more than the sum of their parts.  But he's also a carpetbagger, and players get tired of him after a while, or he gets tired of them.

No rickertreat, Larry Brown is not a good builder nor does he get the most out of his teams.  Why?
Because the Suns beat the Dunleavy Clippers and because Jerry West took the call for Shaq to be marketed to the Lakers. 

Reality debating style #4

- If youve been proven wrong, beaten to a pulp, tried to dance around by bringing up all these other things to debate about and still losing, what do you do?  Make a post like this where you try to call other people out for what you did yourself AND you make up a bunch of lies.

Honestly this post sounds like you are trying to convince yourself of something, you certainly are not convincing anyone else this is how it went down LOL

[Joe Vancil]

No rickertreat, Larry Brown is not a good builder nor does he get the most out of his teams.  Why?
Because the Suns beat the Dunleavy Clippers and because Jerry West took the call for Shaq to be marketed to the Lakers. 

And Reality now wants to argue that Brown is a BUILDER rather than a REBUILDER, but doesn't seem to think that changes the debate.

And since Reality wants me to quote to prove to him that he said such things: 

Builder:  The quote above.
Rebuilder:  The thread title from his last message, orginated by him.

[Reality]

ow, a couple more gnats ^^^ hit my windshield.

[rickortreat]

Larry isn't a primarily a team builder, he just takes a team and gets more out of it that most.  He is an excellent teacher and teaches sound, fundamental basketball.  Larry stands out, only because so many other NBA coaches aren't nearly as good.

But to say he doesn't build at all is absurd, since it usually takes a few seasons and a couple of trades and draft picks before he turns a team around. 

In his time with the Sixers he went through a number of players, helped select them, lobbied for them, got them and then decided they couldn't play or wouldn't.  He is a better judge of talent and sees how individual players can play together and become more than the sum of their parts.  But he's also a carpetbagger, and players get tired of him after a while, or he gets tired of them.

No rickertreat, Larry Brown is not a good builder nor does he get the most out of his teams.  Why?
Because the Suns beat the Dunleavy Clippers and because Jerry West took the call for Shaq to be marketed to the Lakers. 

Please don't bring me into this type of garbage thread, I responded to the title and that's it. I hate this tit for tat nonsense! It's childish, stupid, non-productive and should be beneath all of you who read this.  Apparently it isn't and for that, I feel some regret for the above reasons.  Can't we simply accord each other some modicum of respect? We're all basketball fans, and while we can disagree with each other, there's no reason to call each other names. There is a certain amount of anonymity to on-line chatting, but that's no reason to treat each other poorly. It's hard to separate oneself from one's opinions, and their ownership, but being correct about a basketball subject is really insignificant in the grand scheme of things, is it not!?

[WayOutWest]

Please don't bring me into this type of garbage thread, I responded to the title and that's it. I hate this tit for tat nonsense! It's childish, stupid, non-productive and should be beneath all of you who read this.  Apparently it isn't and for that, I feel some regret for the above reasons.  Can't we simply accord each other some modicum of respect? We're all basketball fans, and while we can disagree with each other, there's no reason to call each other names. There is a certain amount of anonymity to on-line chatting, but that's no reason to treat each other poorly. It's hard to separate oneself from one's opinions, and their ownership, but being correct about a basketball subject is really insignificant in the grand scheme of things, is it not!?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physician,_heal_thyself