Terror alert: Will it affect your attendance?

[Reality]

FBI says it has info the demons are planning to attempt to hit stadiums, mass transit stops, "places of sin".
Skandery can you get some insider info to us?

If we had a pet goat with us would we be un-targeted?

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/279609

[Joe Vancil]

"places of sin".

So which is higher up on their hit list, Congress or the IRS?

I don't take the threat as all that serious.  Why?  Because nothing has happened yet.  Once it does, then I'll start to worry.  I think our government has got a pretty good handle on things - mostly because they know they'll be held publicly accountable if they don't.

[westkoast]

"places of sin".

So which is higher up on their hit list, Congress or the IRS?

I don't take the threat as all that serious.  Why?  Because nothing has happened yet.  Once it does, then I'll start to worry.  I think our government has got a pretty good handle on things - mostly because they know they'll be held publicly accountable if they don't.

I swear our media and intelligence community comes up with this before the terrorists do.  Any events that have more than 1,000 people seem to pop up as 'possible targets' and sometimes I wonder if the terrorists did not think of these situations till they heard it reported on the news.

I am not worried to go to a sporting event and I am not worried to fly on a plane.  Why?  Because the chance of being killed/injured in a  terrorist attack in either location is real slim.  Not going to go around for the rest of my life avoiding any potentially harmful situation.  If I was that type of person I wouldn't drive since I have a much greater chance of dying on the 405 freeway than I do from a bomb at Staples Center.

[rickortreat]

AS soon as you change you're lifestyle the terrorists have won! As soon as the US government starts restricting your behavior or dumping parts of the Constitution (i.e. Patriot Act) the terrorists have won.

In truth they aren't a threat. You can't get every idiot to commit suicide flying planes into buildings! 

This is more about what we do to ourselves and how we respond to this threat.  This is why I hated George Bush. He called it a war on terror, and sent our people off to get shot up and there are still plenty of these creeps around, even if they are on the run.

This is a war of ideas. The people who are attracted to attack us are miserable people with no life, and no future. If you are happy with your existence you don't go throwing it a way for some absurd idea that you will be rewarded with a bunch of inexperienced sex toys in the afterlife!

The problem is the Muslim world is dominated by clerics, spreading their version of reality. These countries are fairly dysfunctional. High unemployment, limited opportunity, poor health systems and infrastructure.  The world of Islam never went through the Scottish enlightenment the separation of Religion from political control.

You can argue with a fundamentalist, his view comes from God and is therefore unassailable.

This change has to come from Muslims themselves, because of their inherent mistrust of the West (not without some cause) thanks to the idiot Prince!

We should be putting pressure on these countries to develop secular education, as opposed to religious drivel. Critical, logical rational thought is the antithesis of religion which demands blind adherents to tennents. A Catholic priest cannot answer why anymore than a Muslim cleric. Which is why they forbid that kind of questioning. A thinking man is not as easily led!

Science and math work and have enabled man to conquer disease and enable man to find more efficient ways to survive and accomplish tasks, far better than religion ever did.

That's how we win this war, in people's minds, not by killing them!

[westkoast]

AS soon as you change you're lifestyle the terrorists have won! As soon as the US government starts restricting your behavior or dumping parts of the Constitution (i.e. Patriot Act) the terrorists have won.

In truth they aren't a threat. You can't get every idiot to commit suicide flying planes into buildings! 

This is more about what we do to ourselves and how we respond to this threat.  This is why I hated George Bush. He called it a war on terror, and sent our people off to get shot up and there are still plenty of these creeps around, even if they are on the run.

This is a war of ideas. The people who are attracted to attack us are miserable people with no life, and no future. If you are happy with your existence you don't go throwing it a way for some absurd idea that you will be rewarded with a bunch of inexperienced sex toys in the afterlife!

The problem is the Muslim world is dominated by clerics, spreading their version of reality. These countries are fairly dysfunctional. High unemployment, limited opportunity, poor health systems and infrastructure.  The world of Islam never went through the Scottish enlightenment the separation of Religion from political control.

You can argue with a fundamentalist, his view comes from God and is therefore unassailable.

This change has to come from Muslims themselves, because of their inherent mistrust of the West (not without some cause) thanks to the idiot Prince!

We should be putting pressure on these countries to develop secular education, as opposed to religious drivel. Critical, logical rational thought is the antithesis of religion which demands blind adherents to tennents. A Catholic priest cannot answer why anymore than a Muslim cleric. Which is why they forbid that kind of questioning. A thinking man is not as easily led!

Science and math work and have enabled man to conquer disease and enable man to find more efficient ways to survive and accomplish tasks, far better than religion ever did.

That's how we win this war, in people's minds, not by killing them!

I was watching an interview the other night (think it was The Daily Show) that discussed another method of limiting fundamentalists using the global economy.  The interviewee was saying that using trade and the  established guidelines you have to follow in order to do business all around the world would work as well.  He used Turkey and a leather trader from there as an example.  Since the leather trader would want to prosper and sell his product to other nations he would be more moderate in his views.  Obviously fundamentalist activity is going to scare off potential and existing clients.  I found the idea to be very interesting and make a lot of sense.  If I remember which episode it was i'll link it because it was off Hulu.

[rickortreat]

That is an excellent idea Westkoast. Precisely the kind of mutually beneficial behavior that makes people realize cooperation is more profitable than hate.

Problem is, it's hard to do business in Iran these days or N. Korea.

If there were a stronger business class in those countries, economic necessity would force them open.

Turkey is the best-off Muslim nation, excluding the wealthy Gulf states. Of course, they are not Arab. Tremendous history in Turkey.

[westkoast]

That is an excellent idea Westkoast. Precisely the kind of mutually beneficial behavior that makes people realize cooperation is more profitable than hate.

Problem is, it's hard to do business in Iran these days or N. Korea.

If there were a stronger business class in those countries, economic necessity would force them open.

Turkey is the best-off Muslim nation, excluding the wealthy Gulf states. Of course, they are not Arab. Tremendous history in Turkey.

Yea they discussed what you are saying.  Obviously this wouldn't work right away in Iran, Iraq, or Afganistan.  However if this works in Turkey, Dubai, etc it may lay the seeds for future growth in other 'off limit markets' (or however you want to phrase what I mean)

Here is the link Rick if you get a chance or are interested in what the gentlemen had to say on the show on Tuesday:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-september-22-2009/vali-nasr

[Skandery]

Skandery can you get some insider info to us?

Believe it or not, I don't have any clear lines of communication with any terrorists.  But rest assured Reality, if I did, you're place of residence would be at the top of the hit list.  You're companion goat will not save you. 

[Skandery]

This is a war of ideas. The people who are attracted to attack us are miserable people with no life, and no future. If you are happy with your existence you don't go throwing it a way for some absurd idea that you will be rewarded with a bunch of inexperienced sex toys in the afterlife!

Rick, we've done this before and we might just be destined to keep going round and round and round about this.  You really do have a hard time differentiating between Arab and Muslim,  Fundamentalist and Muslim, Terrorist and Muslim, Dictatorship and Islam, etc. etc.  I will not allow you to continue throwing around blanket statements and drawing faulty conclusions from them. 

Somebody who comes to 15 year old kid and says, "Go blow yourself up in that mall over there filled with infidels, and you'll be rewarded with 72 virgins when you die" IS NOT A MUSLIM!!  No more a muslim than someone who says, "Go blow up that ungodly Abortion Clinic" is a christian. 

The problem is the Muslim world is dominated by clerics, spreading their version of reality. These countries are fairly dysfunctional. High unemployment, limited opportunity, poor health systems and infrastructure.  The world of Islam never went through the Scottish enlightenment the separation of Religion from political control.

 
Actually with the exception of Saudi Arabia, they're NOT dominated by clerics, they're dominated by DICTATORS. 

This dysfunction doesn't spread from their belief in 1 God, as opposed to No God or belief in 1 God + 1 Son + 1 Holy Spirit.  The dysfunction spreads from the natural corruption that follows concentrating power and money into a small group of people (or 1 person). 

-   Rob the treasury for personal gain
-   Rig the free trade for personal gain
-   Squash political discourse and dissension to remain in power
-   Limit the free flow of thought, discussion, and information to more easily manipulate the citizenry
-   Limit free enterprise
-   Shirk you're responsibilities towards Education, Infrastructure, Law, and Health Care (actually we're having problems in this area)

Do you know what these are symptoms of:  A totalitarian regime.  NOT AN ISLAMIC UTOPIA!

Doesn't matter by which entity a dictatorship (Taliban, Saddam Hussein, Hosni Mubarak, Kind Fahed,etc.) claims as a "Right to Rule".   The dysfunction of governing the society false strictly on its inherent flaw by defintion.   

I can tell you one big reason why its been so hard for the Arab world to overthrow dictatorial regimes.  We love our dictators here in the U.S. (Sabah IV Al-Ahmad, King Fahed, Hosni Mubarak, Ben Ali, Mohammad VI, Abdullah II, etc.) and will put them and try to keep them in power if they're good for business.

=============
You want to argue the role of religion in society, you can go right ahead.  From a purely academic perspective, I observe that it serves as counter-balance to unfettered secularism; but that?s a different debate.  However, as you continue to use the words dictator, fundamentalist, terrorist, and MUSLIM as interchangeable synonym, I will continue to call you out on it again and again.

 

[rickortreat]

This is a war of ideas. The people who are attracted to attack us are miserable people with no life, and no future. If you are happy with your existence you don't go throwing it a way for some absurd idea that you will be rewarded with a bunch of inexperienced sex toys in the afterlife!

Rick, we've done this before and we might just be destined to keep going round and round and round about this.  You really do have a hard time differentiating between Arab and Muslim,  Fundamentalist and Muslim, Terrorist and Muslim, Dictatorship and Islam, etc. etc.  I will not allow you to continue throwing around blanket statements and drawing faulty conclusions from them. 

Somebody who comes to 15 year old kid and says, "Go blow yourself up in that mall over there filled with infidels, and you'll be rewarded with 72 virgins when you die" IS NOT A MUSLIM!!  No more a muslim than someone who says, "Go blow up that ungodly Abortion Clinic" is a christian. 

The problem is the Muslim world is dominated by clerics, spreading their version of reality. These countries are fairly dysfunctional. High unemployment, limited opportunity, poor health systems and infrastructure.  The world of Islam never went through the Scottish enlightenment the separation of Religion from political control.

 
Actually with the exception of Saudi Arabia, they're NOT dominated by clerics, they're dominated by DICTATORS. 

This dysfunction doesn't spread from their belief in 1 God, as opposed to No God or belief in 1 God + 1 Son + 1 Holy Spirit.  The dysfunction spreads from the natural corruption that follows concentrating power and money into a small group of people (or 1 person). 

-   Rob the treasury for personal gain
-   Rig the free trade for personal gain
-   Squash political discourse and dissension to remain in power
-   Limit the free flow of thought, discussion, and information to more easily manipulate the citizenry
-   Limit free enterprise
-   Shirk you're responsibilities towards Education, Infrastructure, Law, and Health Care (actually we're having problems in this area)

Do you know what these are symptoms of:  A totalitarian regime.  NOT AN ISLAMIC UTOPIA!

Doesn't matter by which entity a dictatorship (Taliban, Saddam Hussein, Hosni Mubarak, Kind Fahed,etc.) claims as a "Right to Rule".   The dysfunction of governing the society false strictly on its inherent flaw by defintion.   

I can tell you one big reason why its been so hard for the Arab world to overthrow dictatorial regimes.  We love our dictators here in the U.S. (Sabah IV Al-Ahmad, King Fahed, Hosni Mubarak, Ben Ali, Mohammad VI, Abdullah II, etc.) and will put them and try to keep them in power if they're good for business.

=============
You want to argue the role of religion in society, you can go right ahead.  From a purely academic perspective, I observe that it serves as counter-balance to unfettered secularism; but that?s a different debate.  However, as you continue to use the words dictator, fundamentalist, terrorist, and MUSLIM as interchangeable synonym, I will continue to call you out on it again and again.

 

How can I differentiate between them? I don't to upset you by using the innapropriate terms.  The terrorists may not be good Muslims, but they think they are, so how should I refer to them? The dictators who run these countries, whether Ahmadinejad, or old Saddam, were both Muslim, but the former is Shia, and the later a Sunni. I don't know what term to use for the leaders in Pakistan, but they have a long way to go in terms of serving their people and fostering a stronger civil society.  Turkey's current leaders are more fundamental Muslim than they have been in a long time, but the momentum in that society is clearly towards more modern development, even if they support women wearing head-scarves.

Just because I call them Muslim, doesn't mean I think all Muslims are that way, or that these people are even representative of the average one. The majority of Muslims are not terrorists. But the vast majority of Arabs and Persians and Pakistani's and Afghanis are Muslim. And the majority of terrorists in the world today are from the Muslim world.  Quadafi is a terrorist in my mind, and so is Ahmadinejad. Their language is filled with hate and vitriol, and plays to consituent crowds within their countries, in spite of their inneptitude in serving the needs of their people. Maybe I should just call them assholes, as that would be more descriptive then refering to them as Muslim, but at least by using the term Muslim, I'm differentiating them from Bush and Cheney!

[Reality]

Skandery can you get some insider info to us?

Believe it or not, I don't have any clear lines of communication with any terrorists.  But rest assured Reality, if I did, you're place of residence would be at the top of the hit list.  You're companion goat will not save you. 

All right then I'm strapping liquified pig lard. 

rt

How can I differentiate between them?

Skandery

Somebody who comes to 15 year old kid and says, "Go blow yourself up in that mall over there filled with infidels, and you'll be rewarded with 72 virgins when you die" IS NOT A MUSLIM!!  No more a muslim than someone who says, "Go blow up that ungodly Abortion Clinic" is a christian.

Excellent illustration.

[Reality]

"places of sin".

So which is higher up on their hit list, Congress or the IRS?

I don't take the threat as all that serious.  Why?  Because nothing has happened yet.  Once it does, then I'll start to worry.  I think our government has got a pretty good handle on things - mostly because they know they'll be held publicly accountable if they don't.

Joe,

The 9/11 FBI-CIA fiasco along with the hardcore veto when Clinton suggested a few bucks per ticket to ramp up airline security?
Have they won you back over?  How?

Don't get me wrong, I'm most greatful for all the "stops" the gov't has done, many (most?) we probably don't even know about.  Still.....

[westkoast]

Skandery can you get some insider info to us?

Believe it or not, I don't have any clear lines of communication with any terrorists.  But rest assured Reality, if I did, you're place of residence would be at the top of the hit list.  You're companion goat will not save you. 

*DEAD* 

[Reality]

Skandery can you get some insider info to us?

Believe it or not, I don't have any clear lines of communication with any terrorists.  But rest assured Reality, if I did, you're place of residence would be at the top of the hit list.  You're companion goat will not save you. 

I attended the Chargers-Fins game.
Had a nice shade cooled seat.
Got a ride closer to the stadium from a cab driver of Middle Eastern descent.  I asked him if he wanted a cold beer and if he had any insider information.

Wolfie, Norvs red zone and goaline offense continued to suck eggs.  Did have a nice gadget play tho which I'm sure you saw on the highlights.

The crowd ordiliness and overall manners were great.  If the terrorist were going to attempt to hit, i think they changed it to another weekend.

[WayOutWest]

How can I differentiate between them?

Rick, how do you tell the difference between a KKK member and a Roman Catholic?  How do you tell the difference between a white supremacist and a born again Christian?

Same difference!