Rick you're a contradiction in human form. On one hand you rail against injustice, on the other hand you're all too willing to come up with excuses for its existence. You see wrongful use of force in one instance, yet see nothing wrong in another. Countless times you've come on here and talked about unrest and violence on the border of Islamic countries and tread a fine line in linking it with the doctrinal/religious beliefs of the majority poplulation. Why don't we expound on post-WWII American foreign relations:
- Unprecedented killing in Southern and Northern Vietnam
- Murder and destabilization (against International Law) in Cambodia, Laos, and Thailand, in some instances paving the way the greatest human atrocities in history (Cambodia)
- Killing and warfare in North and South Korea, forced geographic division and military occupation that remains to this day
- Covert assassination of democratically elected leader in Iran and Military support and Foreign aide to a government responsible for the bloodiest 25 year oppression seen in the history of Iran dating back to the Persian empire
- Forced destabilization of Gulf states by the forcible re-drawing of geographic lines in order to secure natural resources
- Covert assassination of democratically elected leader in Nicaragua and replacement with CIA operative responsible for murder and drug trafficking
-Covert operation to overthrow the government of Granada
- Military support of extremist factions in Afganistan spreading destruction into Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, and Russia during the 80s.
-War in Afghanistan against a group made stronger and stronger by U.S. Military and CIA weapons sales. This action made an extremely fundamental minority fringe group oversee the complete dismantling of modern Afghan society and infrastructure.
- Military and Covert Support of violent and oppressive regimes in Indonesia, Turkey, Bolivia, Colombia, Argentina, Chile, Peru, French Guyana, Liberia, Sierra Leone, DR of Congo, Angola, South Africa, Georgia, Bulgaria, Uganda, and Romania.
-Armed conflict with civilian collateral in Somalia, Kosovo, Bosnia, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Lybia, Sudan, Ethiopia, Yemen, India, Pakistan, and Afganistan.
-Covert support for dictatorships in Morocco, Egypt, Tunisia, and Pakistan.
- War in Iraq against a leader strengthened by US Military support. Responsible for the creation of Hussein?s enemy (Iran under the Ayatollah). Responsible for the creation of Kuwait ? a nation run by a very small faction loyal to western interests for oil. Responsible for the utter destruction of one of the greatest bastions of Arab and Islamic civilization (Art and Science) that was modern day Baghdad.
- Support for a government that continues to wrongfully confine, murder, imprison, and impoverish Palestinian refugees living in subhuman conditions for over 60 years.
The U.S. military is responsible for as much death, violence, and carnage as every single Islamic majority nation on the planet taken all together and multiplied by 6. You say no one could have stopped England during their imperialistic heyday and no one is going to stop America today. Since nothing can be done, its not a MORAL ISSUE AT ALL!! Rick, I don?t adhere to the tenant of "Might makes Right". Its all too easy for someone to point fingers and start separating the good guys from the bad guys while they?re living high on the hog. Before you judge any act of desperation from a refugee, go live in Gaza for year and then start spouting you're imperialistic rhetoric.
Whatever brings a 12 year old boy to throw a rock against a foreign invader in response to the murder of his entire family is something I'm not going to judge. I refuse to label a white, male, American army retiree working for Blackwater a hero who was only doing his job when he mows down 22 civilians with a machine gun from a Hummer. Just like I refuse to label that 18 year old survivor who loses his family to that act of violence for wanting to kill that American and HIS entire family in revenge, simply a terrorist.
You still want to blame these people on the religious angle. I don?t differentiate Billy Bob from Cowpoke, USA who enlists because, well, "God bless America" and the chance to fight for the freedom of a "God-Fearing Christian Nation"; from Habib who thinks 70 virgins await him if he goes into that Halliburton tent and takes out as much of those godless, infidel occupiers as he can. I don't give either of them a free pass. I don't lay the blame at the feet of Christian or Islamic Doctrine. I can actually look further than my nose to reconcile the horrible violence that surrounds these people.
Skandery, The US is guilty of all these things, although I think most of the sub divisions of the Arab world were done by the British as a part of their take-over of the Ottoman empire after WW1. I agree with you that the actions of the US are/were reprehensible and they disgust me as much as all of the injustices I discussed earlier. If you paid attention you will note that I railed against Bush the entire time he was president. I thought Regan was just as bad and Bush's father as well.
Might does not make right at least not to me on a philosophical basis, I find that thinking self serving and immoral, but like it or not, this is the way of the world. I'm not excusing it or asking you to accept it, but it is that way, and as far as I know it has always been. People consider me unAmerican because I see it as you do, corrupt, imperialistic and morally bankrupt. Frankly I think that the American government has betrayed it's own people and destroyed the Republic established by the Founding Fathers. I'd like to restore that Republic and bring back proper rule of law, sound money and true economic freedom. I'd love to make that happen, but see that as impossible, given the current nature of the world and the people in it, not just in the US but nearly everywhere.
But if the injustice and violence are to ever stop, people have to change. They have to live up to their word and their commitments. And they have to compromise in order to permit each other to live in peace and dignity. It would be unreasonable to expect the Muslim world to do that if those on the opposing side were not also obligated in the same way. At some point, we have to stop seeking revenge for past injustices or there will never be peace.
I may be overly sympathetic to the state of Israel, knowing their story, but as a rational human being, I can't see how they could act any other way, as they are determined to survive. The Palestinians on the other hand, could choose a different path and actually elect responsible leaders who understand that if they don't compromise they will continue to live lives of despair and hopelessness. Yet any Palestiniain politician who talks that way will immediately be branded as a traitor, and I think you know this as well as I do. You also know the Israeli's will never sacrifice their own country and nor will they allow the Palestinians to perpetuate a state of war, while never making a sincere effort to stop the violence.
If the Palestinians wanted to have an independent free state, self governed and viable they could have it right now! Israel more or less agrees that this is inevitable, as the occupation is costly on both a physical and psychic level. But as long as Palestinians elect leaders like Arafat who stole most of the money given to the Palestinians, or Hamas who is dedicated to the destruction of Israel, this cannot happen. In effect the people of the West Bank and Gaza perpetuate the occupation and their miserable existance, dreaming they can somehow turn back the clock to 1947.
No one, even in the Arab world was sympathetic to the uprising in Gaza. Isn't it high time that the rest of the Muslim world gets realistic about how to engage the West and the state of Israel? When Muhammed made his stand, in Mecca and Medina, he had Jews with him. When the Ottoman's dominated the world, Jewish and Muslim scholars collaborated on the fine points of law. And Jews and muslims coexisted in peace and harmony from Persia to Spain. You won't find any fundamentalist Muslim talking about these facts! And certainly not the adherants of Wahabism, nor the Shia.
Pay attention to what I'm saying, and don't make assumptions about how I feel about any entity, the United States, Israel, or anyone else. I think I see things quite clearly and I don't like much about the world of man, period.
But if we are ever to come together, there does have to be rule of law that we all agree to and abide by. We assemble as Nations, which intrinsically separates us into us and them. We divide ourselves by artificial prejudices and false labels, obfuscating the truth about who we are and how we are suppossed to live. Although we are all the same, we insist on these divisions and justify it by saying this group or that is inferior, subhuman, believes the wrong way, speaks the wrong way, dresses the wrong way, thinks the wrong way etc.
This prejudice is not confined to the barbarian west. The Muslims think the whole world should be Muslim, even adopting their inferior calender which relies on observations of the moon, and accepting Sharia law, which permits women to be sold as property to settle debts, makes interest payments on debt illegal and relies on the opinion of religious scholars as opposed to a code of law acceptable to all as established by elected officials.
The Germans once considered themselves the master race, the Japanese considered themselves superior to all others. Today, America regards itself as a bastion of virtue and justice. They all had their day, and they will all suffer their consequences of their lack of hubris. As will happen tomorrow to China or whoever assumes the mantle of power after the US looses it's position.
I'm sick of all of it, and not that I know, but I pretty much assume God feels the same way. But be that as it is, I'm an American and I'd rather fix it then let it slide down the tubes. Once upon a time, we had a really good idea of how to build a society and a nation, and it got co-opted by a bunch of selfish creeps that turned us into an evil empire. Sorry for the rant, but at least I got this out in the open, thanks.
