Ellis Signs! 6 years/$67MIL

[TheGuiltyParty]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3504378

This is GREAT news for Stefanski and the Sixers. If Ellis got a little more than an average of $11MIL per year, I just can't see how Iguodala and his agent can try and demand more. Martin got 5 years/$55MIL, Ellis got 6 years/$67MIL... so how can Iguodala possibly demand 5 years/$70MIL anymore???

[jemagee]

So in your mind, Andre Iguodala isn't worth more than Monta Ellis?

Okey dokey then.

[TheGuiltyParty]

No. I don't believe Andre Iguodala is worth more than Kevin Martin or Monte Ellis. He does more on the defensive end but the last time I checked, he hasn't made an all-defensive team has he? Ellis is 2 years younger and has a more polished offensive game. Martin is obviously superior offensively.

[TheGuiltyParty]

Also... if you're not going to compare Iguodala to Ellis or Martin... who do you compare him to? Tayshaun Prince? Caron Butler? Carmelo Anthony? Dwayne Wade? LeBron James?

[Skates]

No. I don't believe Andre Iguodala is worth more than Kevin Martin or Monte Ellis. He does more on the defensive end but the last time I checked, he hasn't made all-defensive team has he? Ellis is 2 years younger and has a more polished offensive game. Martin is obviously superior offensively.

I will agree that a contract around $11 million a year is where Iggy belongs IMO.  However, do I think he is a better player than Monta Ellis?  Yes, unless Ellis succssfully transitions to PG, then he would have more value (supposedly that is their plan).  As a SG in a system other than the one he plays in GS, I would not really want Ellis except as a guy off the bench.  He is tiny for a SG and doesn't shoot the three.  He has a very nice mid-range game and absolutley incredible instincts around the basket and very efficient with his shots.  He also benefits greatly from the way GS spreads the floor, the pace that they play at, the greater number of good offensive players around him and the lack of any real need to expend energy on the defensive end.  He probably has more value for GS than he would for most teams, again, unless he becomes a quality scoring PG.  Put Iggy or a guy like Leandro barbosa in Ellis' spot as SG on the GS team last year and they would have easily averaged in the low 20's on offense.

Ellis, Martin and Iggy are all comparable players, i.e. in the same tier, but I would rank Iggy and Martin slightly above Ellis.  Most of the free agent rankings this year listed Iggy as #1 or 2 among the RFA's, with Ellis usually ranking in the 5-8 range.  Iggy and Martin are very comparable, with Iggy more versatile and a better defender and Martin the superior scorer.

[jemagee]

Oh no, he hasn't made an all defensive team, he must suck at defense if sports writers can't recognize it...that's strong damning evidence right there, we all know sports writers are the be all and end all.

It's become apparent to me that you undervalue ANdre Iguodala and his more complete all around game than the other two players as much as some people over value Sam Dalembert.

Also, when you use carmelo anthony in the same sentence as lebron james and dwyane wade, I can't take it seriously anyway...

Additionally, i'm not sure the spectrum of basketball players goes ellis/martin to lebron/wade with no players in between...so yes I think he's better OVERALL and more valuable to a playoff contending team than guys who can score, and um score, and well, score...and you know, score.

[Derek Bodner]

I would trade Iguodala for Kevin Martin without blinking an eye.  ellis I probably wouldn't, only because I question his ability to defend the 2, and don't think he's a 1 at all.

[tk76-]

I think average numbers are confusing since some players are averaged over 6 years (ellis) while others are near the ends of their deals.  Its best to compare what they will make in '08-'09.  Ellis will make 9M this year.

Here are some other '08-'09 salaries for non-superstar SG/SF's:
RJ: 13M
Rip 10.5M
Prince 9.5M
Ginobli: 10M
Howard 9.95M
Bobby Simmons: 9.9M
Kevin Martin 9.2M
Ellis 9M
Butler 9M
M Miller 9M
Dunleavy 9M
QRich: 8.8M
G Wallace 8.3M

You can't just cherry pick the good or bad deals for comparison.  Iguodala is very hard to slot.  On one hand he had a much more prominet role on his team than any of these other players.  On the other hand, he should step back into a more complemntary role similar to these other players now that Brand is here, although he still could end up part of a Philly "big three" at some point if they become contenders.

It is equally hard to look ut Iguodala's upside.  On one hand he is not as naturally offensively gifted as some of these guys.  On the other hand he is 24 and possibly one of the top 5 athletes in the NBA, so he might have more star upside than most on this list either due to age or physical limitations- and Iguodala has shown the ability to improve his game from year to year, and is already ahead of where I thought he would be at this stage of his career.

[tk76-]

Looking at this list I would put Iguodala at abou 9.5-10M for next year.  Not because he is better than the other names, but trying to take everything into account including his upside and potential to be a very good player at both SG and SF on both ends of the court.  A lot of the "better" players are either a lot older, or more specialized players. 

Certainly, Iguodala should be slotted somewhere between 9 and 10.5M next year (5yr/52M to 5yr/62M range.)  Anything above that would probably be above market value.

[jemagee]

Let me also say that I feel Ellis got too much money, for too long, for what he's done and what they think he'll do, and the GM is Chris Mullin

[Skates]

I would trade Iguodala for Kevin Martin without blinking an eye.  ellis I probably wouldn't, only because I question his ability to defend the 2, and don't think he's a 1 at all.

I would too, at this point Martin would clearly fit our needs at SG better than Iggy.  For most teams a choice of Iggy vs. Martin would be a system/fit/style preference choice.  Ellis anywhere other than GS is more comparable to Ben Gordon, IMO, than Martin or Iguodala.  Ellis is more efficient and Gordon more explosive.  The one thing I like better about Martin and Ellis is that they play within their limitations better than do Gordon and Iggy.  Gordon suffers from a severe over-confidence in his abilities.  Iggy keeps trying to prove he is a franchise player, and the fans keep undervaluing him because he clearly is not that number 1 type player they crave.  I think Andre and the Philly fans in general suffer from various symptoms of post-Iverson related stress disorder.

[tk76-]

I agree that Martin would be a better fit for this team- since they need a shooter more than a versitaile  all around player.
 
However, I think Iguodala has a chance to be a higher sschelon player than Martin in 2-3 years.  This is by no means a certainty, just that the potential is there.  That is why I would pay him a slight bit more, but we are talking about 1M, which is not a huge difference either way.

[TheGuiltyParty]

Oh no, he hasn't made an all defensive team, he must suck at defense if sports writers can't recognize it...that's strong damning evidence right there, we all know sports writers are the be all and end all.

It's become apparent to me that you undervalue ANdre Iguodala and his more complete all around game than the other two players as much as some people over value Sam Dalembert.

Also, when you use carmelo anthony in the same sentence as lebron james and dwyane wade, I can't take it seriously anyway...

Additionally, i'm not sure the spectrum of basketball players goes ellis/martin to lebron/wade with no players in between...so yes I think he's better OVERALL and more valuable to a playoff contending team than guys who can score, and um score, and well, score...and you know, score.

You're downright brutal! There are so many flaws above that it's almost comical.

A) I didn't use Carmelo and LeBron in the same sentence
and
2) I didn't jump from Ellis/Martin to Wade/LeBron. You may want to wipe the sweat out of your eyes and take a lookski once again since I squeezed the names of Caron Butler, Tayshaun Prince, and Carmelo Anthony in between Martin/Ellis and Wade/LeBron.

I may undervalue Iguodala's all-around game (wait... aren't I the one who is in favor of giving him $11MIL per season??) but at least I'm not a sucker who worships a player who is completely incapable of getting his own shot off in a half-court set.

Who has a better all-around game? Iguodala or Prince? How can Iguodala justify being paid more than Tayshaun when Tayshaun is the far superior player or both ends on the floor??? The only justification would be if the market dictated it but there is no market for Andre Iguodala right now, is there?
 

[tk76-]

Is this BS vs DRX lite?  Hah, just joking.

[jemagee]

who do you compare him to? Tayshaun Prince? Caron Butler? Carmelo Anthony? Dwayne Wade? LeBron James?

Sentence fragments...my apologies...now we have two mr literals, i understand now.

I may undervalue Iguodala's all-around game (wait... aren't I the one who is in favor of giving him $11MIL per season??) but at least I'm not a sucker who worships a player who is completely incapable of getting his own shot off in a half-court set.

Since you're soliteral, by completely incapable do you mean can't do it at all?

We weren't talking about Prince

You brought up prince

We were talking about ellis, martin and Iguodala.

Those are the 3 relevant names I was consdering, you chose to add more names...I didn't...