Brand?

[jemagee]

in his 'slump' korver shot 35.2 from the 3 point line in philadelphia...only louis williams had a higher percentage (reggie evans shot 1.000% from the 3 point line, but i'm not counting on that continuing) so even his 'slump' numbers in philadelphia elevate the numbers...

[Derek Bodner]

i understand that with miller but our other key players have fairly similar percentages.  Lou has a surprisingly similar % to Billups(though Billups took and made many, many,many more).  Iguodala is better than Rip was at that time as well.  Thad has an ok % (higher than Rips but far fewer).  maybe I'm just hoping against reality.

As you said, Billups made a lot more than Lou.  3's weren't RIP's game, but I think you agree he was a much better overall shooter than Iggy.  How does Thad compare to Prince?  Brand to Rasheed?  Dalembert to Okur?

In fact, I having those big men who can stretch the D opens up the lanes even more for someone like Igudoala, so the Pistons setup was very good

[TheGuiltyParty]

Wait... I'm trying to catch up here... was it determined whether or not Iguodala would take on BYC status if we sign Brand first?

Also... Rip is a very interesting name although very unlikely. Richardson could probably be had for Iguodala since LB loves guys who play D and can't shoot. That said, Richardson has never really given me the vibe of being a main cog on a championship team.

[sixersftw]

Oh i concede we don't compare in frontcourt shooters.  I was trying to only look at the "traditional" 3pt shooters on a team. It's hard to compare thad to prince because we don't have a large enough sample to work w/.  but they murder us up front for sure.

[Derek Bodner]

Wait... I'm trying to catch up here... was it determined whether or not Iguodala would take on BYC status if we sign Brand first?

We believe Iguodala wouldn't have BYC.

[DuckyNinja]

Where does signing Brand and trading away Carney rank us among the Eastern Conference teams if we do nothing else of note?  We're still behind the Celtics and Pistons for sure.  But I don't think there's any other teams you could put firmly ahead of the Sixers.

[jemagee]

In my estimation the magic are still better


The raptors bulls and cavs COULD be better...no guarantees

[TheGuiltyParty]

I think we're behind Boston and Detroit still but I believe we're at good as Orlando, Toronto, or any other team in the East. If we trade Iguodala for Redd or Hamilton, I think we can challenge for the Eastern Conference.

Also... it will be interesting to see what the Pistons do this summer. They're supposedly interested in Maggette which raises my eyebrows. Are they after him as a 6th man? I doubt it.

[Lurker]

Wait... I'm trying to catch up here... was it determined whether or not Iguodala would take on BYC status if we sign Brand first?

We believe Iguodala wouldn't have BYC.

And why is that?

If signed after using all cap space for a big name FA then he will be a BYC player.  Unless he receives less than a 20% raise.

Here is Larry Coon's BYC discussion...

73.  What is "Base Year Compensation?"  How does base year compensation affect trades?  Why does it exist?

Base year compensation (BYC) prevents another salary cap loophole. Without BYC, a team over the salary cap that wants to trade a player, but can't because of the Traded Player exception (which says teams can't take back more than 125% of the salary they trade away), could just sign the player to a new contract that fits within the desired range, then do the trade.  BYC says "if you re-sign a player and give him a big raise, then for a period of time his trade value will be lower than his actual salary."
BYC defines the salary that's used to compare players for compliance under the Traded Player exception (see question number 68 for more information about the Traded Player exception). Usually the salary used for comparison is the player's actual salary.  But under either of the following circumstances, a different salary is used when comparing salaries for trading purposes:

The team is over the salary cap, used the Larry Bird or Early Bird exception to re-sign the player, and the player received a raise greater than 20% (unless it's the minimum salary).
  
The team is over the salary cap, it extended the player's rookie scale contract, and the player received a raise greater than 20%.
If either of the above apply, then the player is considered a base year player.  A player remains a base year player for six months, or until June 30, whichever comes later.  When trading a base year player, the salary used for comparison is the player's previous salary, or 50% of the first-year salary in his new contract, whichever is greater.
Here is an example of a BYC calculation:  A player earned $2 million in 2004-05, after which he became a free agent. He then signs a new contract (re-signing with his previous team, which is over the salary cap) starting at $9 million.  This player qualifies for BYC, so his trade value is the greater of his previous salary ($2 million) or 50% of his new salary ($4.5 million), or $4.5 million. So this player, who actually earns $9 million, is worth $4.5 million for trading purposes.

When comparing salaries for trade, teams use their own player's BYC value and the other player's full salary, even if the other player is also BYC.  Here is a simple example -- two $5 million players, both of whom are re-signed (by teams over the cap) for $10 million.  Both players become base year players whose base year amount is $5 million (50% of the new salary).  If the teams want to trade these players for each other they compare their player's base year amount to the other player's full salary.  So each team can take back a maximum of 125% plus $100,000 of their player's $5 million base year amount, or $6.35 million.  They compare $6.35 million to the other player's full $10 million.  $10 million is way too high, so this trade can't be done, even though the players' actual salaries match exactly.

If one of the teams in the above example was below the cap, the trade still couldn't be done.  For the team under the cap, their player would not be BYC, so they would be comparing $10 million to $10 million. But since the other team is over the cap, their player is BYC, and they'd still be comparing $5.85 million to $10 million, which prevents the trade from working.  (See question number 75 for more information about trading BYC players.)

For Larry Bird or Early Bird players, the player's BYC begins on the date he signs his contract.  For extended rookie scale contracts, the player's BYC begins on the day after the July Moratorium which precedes the first season of the extension.  For example, if an extension of a rookie scale contract is signed on 10/30/05, his BYC begins on 7/12/06, because the first season of the extension is 2006-07.  A player's BYC goes away if the team falls below the salary cap, the player signs with a different team, or the player is traded.

[Skates]

Where does signing Brand and trading away Carney rank us among the Eastern Conference teams if we do nothing else of note?  We're still behind the Celtics and Pistons for sure.  But I don't think there's any other teams you could put firmly ahead of the Sixers.

It is impossible to know how much better the Sixers will be because even with Brand or Smith coming in a very large part of the Sixers improvement this year should come from the maturation of the young guys like Thad, Williams and Jason Smith, plus what we might get from Speights.  They are very talented players, but will Thad have a break-out year this season or next?  Who knows?  I am sure it will happen, but when and to what extent is unclear.  Those things are hard to know any time before training camp at the earliest.  Even without Brand or Josh Smith the team should be better, adding in the FA as an x-factor makes it even tougher to gauge.

Also, the Pistons and Celtics are dependent on older players, hence increasing the risk of injury related performance drops.  The Raps and Wiz are counting on a known injury risks in O'Neal and Arenas to make their teams better.  The Cavs will be making some big trade at the deadline with all of those expiring contracts, you can almost guarantee it.  The EC should be pretty interesting this year.

[TheGuiltyParty]

Brand would take up our cap space but not put us OVER the cap because of that the BYC rules may not take effect.

[Derek Bodner]

If signed after using all cap space for a big name FA then he will be a BYC player.  Unless he receives less than a 20% raise.

But if we don't use *every* dollar on Brand, and we then sign Iguodala next, wouldn't we be under the cap?

[jemagee]

But if we don't use *every* dollar on Brand, and we then sign Iguodala next, wouldn't we be under the cap?

[

Does anyone believe that elton brand will get less than the entirety of the sixers available cap space though?

[bebopdeluxe]

TGP:

I will wait to see what Detroit does this summer before I automatically put them ahead of us.

I think that Boston is clearly the best team in the East for one more season (although we will see if they are satisfied with finally getting there or if they really have the "heart of a champion")...and then I believe that it is up in the air among Detroit, Orlando, Toronto, Cleveland (if they get their backcourt straightened out), Washington and us - if we get Brand.

[tk76-]

BTW, I'm hurt the Fixer posted that at RealGM before here.  Betrayed

So says the RealGm Mod who PM's posters to tell them to post elsewhere

For amusiment sake, I think I remember an athletic, hustling NBA team that added a force inside that led to a Title, without relying much on outside shooting, not to mention having a PG with limitted range on his jumpshot...

The 1983 Sixers.