Why Cavs would stand no chance against the Spurs...

[JoMal]

Pistons:  Isn't it obvious not playing Nazr is costing them big time.

The Lebrons.  Lurker is correct, let him get his 40.  I did not compile these, but check these takes and stats out:

LeBron's game against the Pistons is proof that he is the second coming of MJ, right? No team can contain him, and he has the ability to win a game single-handedly, through sheer force of will. If (when) the Cavs advance, the Spurs are in serious danger, because they have no answer for LeBron. Right?

Well let's see. He scored 30 in regulation - a good game, but not exactly unstoppable. Then he dropped 18 on the Pistons in the two overtime periods (10 minutes), which proves that LeBron can't be contained. So what about Manu dropping 16 points on the Jazz in a 10 minute stretch in the fourth quarter of Game 4? Why aren't people recognizing that Ginobili is unstoppable? What answer will the Cavs defense have for him?

Maybe the difference is that LeBron does it all the time. I'm sure he's done the same thing dozens of other times this season. So let's take a look at LeBron's other big games:

The only other time LeBron scored more than 40 in a game this season? He scored 41, also with the help of OT minutes. Strangely, it was also against the Pistons.

He scored 39 abainst the Bulls - also overtime. But he only had 32 in regulation, none in the last 7 minutes. (The Cavs only scored 2 points in the last 7 minutes, which is the reason the game even went to OT.)

He scored 39 against the Sixers. Double overtime. Cavs lost.
He scored 39 against the Mavs in regulation. Cavs lost.
He scored 38 against the Celtics in regulation. Cavs win by 1.
He scored 37 against Charlotte. Overtime. Cavs lost.
He scored 37 against the Nets in regulation. Cavs Lost.

I've said it before...the Spurs won't get a trophy for beating LeBron. The trophy will be for beating the Cavs (assuming they beat the Pistons). And when LeBron throws up big numbers, his team usually doesn't fare so well.

Most of the time, LeBron puts up numbers a lot like what Deron Williams put on the Spurs. Maybe DeRon was unstoppable....but his team wasn't. And if LeBron is scoring 37-38-39 points, it's because the rest of his team sucks that night, and the Cavs probably don't win the game. The media has to try and create some kind of suspense and excitement for the finals. But Spurs fans don't. If the Cavs can manage to get past Detroit...bring em on. LeBron may be unstoppable. But the Cavs damned sure aren't.

He scored 35 against the Spurs in regulation. Cavs Won.

I guess the key phrase in all that is that the Cavs won when LeBron "only" scored 35.

He also "only" scored 19 in the rematch, also won by the Cavs. In both games, Larry Hughes was the alternative scorer for the Cavs - and it should be noted that back then, Gibson was not playing much, as he played a total of only five minutes combined and all of those were in the second game.

But it REALLY should be noted that the Cavs won both games by playing better defense against the Spurs, especially the second game - - and the Spurs literally shot themselves in the foot in losing the first game at home by shooting horrifically from the foul line.

And Lurker, I do not want you to have any doubts this time as to where my loyalty lies. I am for the Cavs all the way in this series. Not that they will necessarily win it, but I will be for LeBron anyway. Like this kid a bunch.   

[Skandery]

I've been lurking around some boards and reading some of Rick's posts:  people are actually starting to talk themselves into believing Cleveland has a snowball's chance in hell of surviving--they don't!  I'd wager the snowball has more of a chance in hell than Cleveland has of winning more than one game.  LeBron is LeBron, no doubt, the man's amazing and is starting to cement himself in the annals of playoff history but COME ON!?!?  Cleveland!?!?  Really??  A couple weeks ago this team was struggling with a team comprised of an aging Jason Kidd, an underachieving Carter, and a frontcourt that STARTED Jason Collins and Mikki Moore.  Cleveland is a BAD TEAM.  I said before nobody in the East has impressed me and I maintain that to this day.  Not even Detroit impressed me with their play and its no surprise to me they lost to a bad team.  BTW, with each passing day I am less and less impressed with Flip Saunders---and its not the following in Larry Brown's footsteps, yada, yada---the guy just doesn't coach playoff winning basketball, period.

So in a knockdown-dragout, defensive series like this is shaping up to be (lord knows Pop can't coach offense, and Mike Brown was a student of Popovich--so he's ridiculously uber-incompetent in the area), I expect San An to average about 85 points a game.  I see NO MORE than 35 ppg for the entire Cleveland team save LeBron.  Think about it guys, 7 Cleveland players have to average FIVE WHOLE POINTS PER GAME, players like Grandpa Donyell Marshall, Sideshow Bob Anderson Varejao, Dufus Drew Gooden, Grandpa Eric Snow, a one-legged Larry Hughes, Boobie Gibson, and Big Z.  The kicker is that all of them have to get this 5 points in the SAME GAME to get to 35.  So if LeBron averages 50 ppg, this series could go 6 or 7 games before San An wins.  If he doesn't I think Cleveland will be swept faster than LeBron can say, "I'm happy to be in the Fi--."  More than likely LeBron will have one astounding performance and Cleveland will squeeze a game out but I am VERY VERY tempted to predict the sweep.  Ah screw it....you only live once.......I am full-fledged predicting a sweep in the Finals.

4-0 San Antonio

[rickortreat]

Let's not forget Cleveland won both matchups against the Spurs this year!  The first time, the Cavs probably weren't on the Spurs radar, but you know that the Spurs try to beat everyone they play.  In the second game, the Spurs really wanted to win and couldn't. So the Cavs can win against the Spurs.

But in a seven game series, it comes down to the best team and based on experience and talent you have to pick the Spurs.  That's the logical choice, and the Spurs have demonstrated that they are the best team in the Western conference, and look ready to take another title.

Cleveland on the other hand, is a very young team, centered around a superlative talent in LeBron James.  He is the second coming of Michael Jordan, a non-center good enough to overcome another team on his own.  Like Jordan before him, he had to go through all the teams in the East and surprised many by beating Detroit in 6. 

The final game against Detroit, showed that Cleveland can outplay Detroit even when LeBron isn't involved in the offense as anything more than a passer.  Hughes, Pavlovic, Gooden and Ilgauskas played their normal games and Gibson showed that on a given night, he can shoot like Michael Finley.

Detroit is known for their defense, but they had no answer for the Cavs.  They took LeBron out of the game and still lost.  Scoring only 20 for the Cavs, the team still put up 98 pts, in regulation against one of the better defensive teams in the league.

Detroit lost their poise and swagger in that series. I think they felt they were beat the moment they stepped on the floor in game 6.  LeBron did that to them and that counts for something.   

The truth is Clevland matches up well with San Antonio.  They have the size up front, and a guard tandem that outplayed Billups and Hamilton.  They have a better chance than a snowball in hell.  This is a dangerous series for the Spurs in as much as they could actually loose. It would be to their advantage to close them out quickly and convincingly.  If, like Detroit they merely eek out wins at home, and give Cleveland any hope, it will become a series instead of a formality.

Until I see a game or two, I'm picking the Spurs to win, but unlike most, I think Cleveland has more than a little shot at an upset.

[SPURSX3]

Lebron.  Thanks for coming to San Antonio.  Now get ready to lose.

[WayOutWest]

Lebron.  Thanks for coming to San Antonio.  Now get ready to lose.

Can we just skip the NBA finals and go strait to the NBA draft?

[westkoast]

Rick what big man the caliber of Tim Duncan did Michael Jordan overcome?  I remember him beating up Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, and Charles Barkley but not quite someone as talented as Tim Duncan.

[rickortreat]

Rick what big man the caliber of Tim Duncan did Michael Jordan overcome?  I remember him beating up Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, and Charles Barkley but not quite someone as talented as Tim Duncan.

Just take a look at the highlights of their games this year.  LeBron posterized Duncan, a couple of times.

Technically MJ overcame Shaq, although in their only head-to-head matchup Shaq won, every year the Bulls won a championship Shaq was playing.

[Skandery]

Let's check those facts again, Rick.  In the 1995 playoffs after Michael Jordan came back at the end of the season, the did in fact lose Shaq's Orlando Magic (Orlando went on to get swept by Houston in the Finals).  In the 1996 playoffs, however, Jordan and the Bulls pounded Shaq's Magic into the ground in the second round.

[westkoast]

Rick what big man the caliber of Tim Duncan did Michael Jordan overcome?  I remember him beating up Patrick Ewing, Karl Malone, and Charles Barkley but not quite someone as talented as Tim Duncan.

Just take a look at the highlights of their games this year.  LeBron posterized Duncan, a couple of times.

Technically MJ overcame Shaq, although in their only head-to-head matchup Shaq won, every year the Bulls won a championship Shaq was playing.

I didn't realize dunking on a player means you overcome them in the playoffs....

[rickortreat]

Let's check those facts again, Rick.  In the 1995 playoffs after Michael Jordan came back at the end of the season, the did in fact lose Shaq's Orlando Magic (Orlando went on to get swept by Houston in the Finals).  In the 1996 playoffs, however, Jordan and the Bulls pounded Shaq's Magic into the ground in the second round.

I wasn't aware of that second meeting, so thanks for pointing that out.  Other great centers- who's careers were marginalized by MJ also has to include Akeem Olajuwon and David Robinson.

[Reality]

Just take a look at the highlights of their games this year.  LeBron posterized Duncan, a couple of times.

True that, and the Cavs won both games fair and square.  But I'm hoping both those wins, well i know the 1st one came when the Spurs were in by far their suckiest stretch of the season.  If Cementshoes Pop allows ball movement i think the Spurs will roll 4-1.  A hardfought 4-1 but still 4-1.
SpursXs3 and Texans what is up with the lameo no hype planned for a t &t homecourt?  Cleveland is apparently ready to rock n roll with a complete sellout and seats going for 15K.

Can Finley complete his playoffs 65% fga?  He can definitely help cement Title IV along with Barrdawg.

On Shraq, good stats Skander.  I also think rt you are talking about not just head to head but the number of titles MJ won while he and the Most Dominant Never were in the league together, hence Shaq had numerous chances to knock off Jordan whether they played each other or not from 92-98.  Even tho the head to head reads 1-1, that Jordans mid year comeback fell short followed by next seasons pounding i would give Jordan not only the overall win but the head to head also.  

Preemtive on WOWkoastFan or the other flakers coming in with some ridiculous stats of MJ on Washington while Shaq was on abc.  MJ ended with the '98 Bulls, get real.

[rickortreat]

The more I think about this, the more I think Cleveland has a good shot. 

A lot of people discount the season series, saying the Spurs are a different team now.  That may be, but the Cavaliers are a better team now as well, having gone though their E.C. opponents.

Both teams will be rested, which is good for the fans, as we'll see the players at the top of their games (long-term injuries notwithstanding)

I think the problem for the Spurs is that Cleveland really matches up well with them in terms of size, physical presence and pace.  Both teams are defence-oriented first, and the Cleveland coach on GM are both ex-Spurs employees.  Cleveland was and is being built in the Spurs image- imitation is the best form of flattery!

Cleveland is a better rebounding team than the Spurs. Up until now, the Spurs have been able to control the boards against everyone for the series, if not individual games.  But Cleveland has more size up front that any of them, and it's clear that Boozer's size bothered Duncan. 

The regular season matchup shows that Cleveland matches up well with the Spurs. Which team will be forced to adjust to what the other team is doing?

The other thing that stands out is that Bowen, who is able to pester just about everyone, is too small to defend against James.  In the regular season James was able to get by him and TD at the rim.  And one last point- the Cavalier guards are bigger and more physical than the Spurs- and will be able to post them up.

My head says Spurs will win,  just too much talent, but LeBron is establishing himself as the second coming of MJ, who even made note of it himself.  Lots of pretenders have been labled MJ's heir apparent and all of them have fallen short.  But LeBron even got MJ exited with his performance in a game.

Truth be told, it's a little bit too soon for the Cavaliers to be in the finals.  They could use a little more seasoning and another player or two.  Nothing they can do about that - the first game will be very big- with a lot of pressure.  Psychologically, the Spurs need to break the Cavaliers- just put the thought in their head that they can't win.  If they don't do that, or can't, Cleveland will start to get into the Spurs head.

[WayOutWest]

I wasn't aware of that second meeting, so thanks for pointing that out.  Other great centers- who's careers were marginalized by MJ also has to include Akeem Olajuwon and David Robinson.

How can you make that comment when those guys didn't even make it out of the west to face MJ?  The only center who's career was marginalized by MJ is Ewing.

[rickortreat]

I wasn't aware of that second meeting, so thanks for pointing that out.  Other great centers- who's careers were marginalized by MJ also has to include Akeem Olajuwon and David Robinson.

How can you make that comment when those guys didn't even make it out of the west to face MJ?  The only center who's career was marginalized by MJ is Ewing.

Because they were all in the league, persuing titles at the same time.  If their teams weren't good enough to get to the finals, they certainly weren't going to get by Chicago!  Face it, if there never was an MJ, Chicago wouldn't have won any of those championships, which by default would go to some other team. I don't even include Ewing in the list, because I never thought he deserved the notariety he did.  Those Knick teams never did anything.  Both Robinson and Akeem won titles, and chances are may have won more if not for Chicago. Reggie Milller and Rik Smits would have gotten a title if without MJ. Karl Malone and John Stockton too.  Sir Charles may have won a title himself. When a single player dominates the league otherwise great players are diminished as a result.  But that's why they play the games, to see who really is the best at that time.

[WayOutWest]

Face it, if there never was an MJ, Chicago wouldn't have won any of those championships, which by default would go to some other team.

Why is this so hard for you to understand?  If MJ was never in the league Dream and DRob would NOT have won titles durring the Chicago run because they NEVER made it to the finals when MJ was there, they never got out of the West, maybe L.A., Portland, Phx, Seattle or the Jazz would have titled but NOT Houston and SA cause they were never there.  DUH!  If anything, had MJ not taken two years off Dream may not have titled.