Cheap shot Bob! nt

[jn]

nt

[Lurker]

IMO that flagrant was the direct result of the poor job done by Javie & company.  They allowed one team to play a more physical game than the other team.  The tension and physicality was never defused but allowed to build until Horry released the pent up frustration.

It will be interesting to see how the league rules in regards to Stoudamire & Diaw leaving the bench area.  The Suns quick coverup..."Amare was checking in"...is pure BS.  He was 5-6 feet out on the court and didn't stand up until after Nash was cross-checked into the boards.  Based on prior years they should expect to sit a game...but this year the league's enforcement team has been anything but consistent.

[Laker Fan]

Disappointed in Horry, he has always been classier than that, but Lurker is right, the refs had done nothing all game to difuse the mounting tension, and while I advocate the let 'em play philosophy, you almost saw this one coming. Be that as it may, Nash did a magnificant acting job once he hit the table.

Absolutely Stoudemire and Diaw should get suspended, no one buys the "he was checking" in tripe Phoenix is trying to sell, he charged right off the bench and had to be restrained by a team mate, I don't care what Charles Barkley says, he left the bench fully intending to involve himself.

On a side note, if it was Horry's intention to force some of the Suns starters off the bench, than it was most brilliant flagrant 2 of all time.

[SPURSX3]

The Suns whined about it and got what they wanted.  I saw travelling, shoves, elbows - hell Oberto got stepped on by Bell - all of this in the eyes of the refs.  I don't blame Horry for the shove, it was not right, but you can see why they would be that upset.  The Spurs need to check themselves and step it up in game 5.  make their shots, play solid defense and most of all keep Tim Duncan out of foul trouble.  ok, so horry will be suspended, big deal.  The Suns need to be worried if the league suspends Amare AND Boris for this.

[Skandery]

Guys lets remember that Robert Horry has SIX CHAMPIONSHIPS with THREE DIFFERENT TEAMS.  The guy knows how to win plain and simple.  He didn't make the last second shot to win the game so instead he exchanged himself for Stoudemire and Diaw for Game 5.  That is both savvy and smart.  Its actually transcendant if you think about.  He knows he hasn't quite been the contributor to this Spurs team as in years past barring a couple of timely shots in the Denver series.  Michael Finley, Brent Barry, and Fabricio Oberto have done much more for the Spurs in the series than he has.  He knows the Spurs are deeper and he wouldn't be a big loss to the team--let's body check Nash into the scorer's table and see who tries to retaliate on me because my veteran Spurs are too smart and too disciplined to even think about clearing the bench.  If you notice, after the forearm check he simply walks away, did you notice that no other Spurs really flinched or made a move until Raja Bell tried to rush Horry.  Diaw and Stoudemire, two of the most lame brain individuals to ever walk the basketball hardwood (and sadly important pieces of Phoenix' team) did and in that moment--Robert Horry helped his Spurs team the BEST and ONLY way he can.

Rarely ever do I agree with Charles Barkley but in this case ESPECIALLY, because I give Robert Horry all the credit in the world, extenuating circumstances have to be considered.  A head-hunter, an enforcer, pretty much has decided an outcome of a playoff series and at some point, a line has to be drawn. 

The last stark case of this I saw was in the 1996 Finals when Seattle met the 72 win Bulls.  Chicago won three straight games and Seattle came roaring back in the next 2 games.  In part because of the emotional charge Nate McMillan gave them when he came back from injury but also because of the underappreciated yeoman's work that bench player Frank Brickowski was doing on the boards and was doing defensively against Rodman and Longley.  At the end of Game 5, a game Seattle eventually won, Rodman had finally given the Brick one to many elbows to the head, so Frank, subtle as a slegehammer, turned around and threw a punch at Rodman.  The Bulls went on to win Game 6 with a full roster while Seattle was missing one very big, very large man, and their only true inside bruiser in the middle.     

Dennis Rodman (5 championships) and Robert Horry (6 going on 7 championships) are two of the smartest players in NBA history and I'll argue with anyone until I'm blue in the face that they're both surefire Hall Of Famers.  They knew what it took to win.  No matter how ugly, no matter how dirty, no matter how unjustly, no matter the cost, the honor, the chivalry, the spirit of competition, they WILL BEAT YOU BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY!!!!  The people who cheer for their teams will love them, the people who cheer against their teams will hate them with seething passion, but they use their abilities, their intellect, and most of all THE SYSTEM to their advantage.  Is it time for the SYSTEM to change, that's another debate for another time, and I've been losing that argument for over a decade. 

 

[westkoast]

I missed the play completely because I had got up to do other things at that point.  Hopefully it hits youtube while I am at work so I can add my comment about that situation.  I read about it of course but I am hoping to get 4,000 angles 

I have to agree that there was alot of hard fouls, shoving, flopping, grabbing, pulling, mouth running, etc throughout the entire game.  IMO they did a poor job of getting the game under control even before the 3rd quarter.  They should have known, going into the 4th of a very important game, that it was going to get even more edgy and tough.

[rickortreat]

Horry just undid all the good things I respected him for with that shot to Nash.

I also think the Spurs fans thinking that this was justified as a result of the physical play are on crack.

The Spurs were every bit as physical as the Suns were, in fact, they were more physical, being the somewhat bigger team.  The Spurs fouled the Suns 9 more times.

NO.  Bob did that out of frustration, since the Suns had pulled ahead and were on their way to stealing the game.  Bob punked out and took a cheap shot, since there would be no late-game heroics this time around.  All he had to do was gently guide Nash out-of-bounds and there would have been no problem.  It was a pre-meditated cheap shot from a guy who is supposed to be the king of cool.

As for Amare and anyone else leaving the bench, none of them went to confront Horry, so it is unlikely the league will do much with them, but Bob could be suspended for the rest of the playoffs.

Meanwhile all this masks what has turned into a great series.  The Spurs were in total control of this game until the very end, and I thought it was over.  The Suns had no match for Duncan in the paint, and although he had to work, he was doing it very well, and the Suns were being effectvely smothered by the Spurs defense. -(Which is where the majority of the fouls were called)

The Suns started to play their style with only a few minutes left in the game, and the Spurs were caught off guard.  In truth, they lost their poise and stopped executing the way the had all game.  They only scored 18 points in the last quarter.  Had they continued to score, we'd be talking about an insurmountable lead for San Antonio.  Now, the momentum has clearly shifted to the Suns who have regained home-court advantage and the moral high ground.

It's natural for people to want to defend themselves, but people who are overtly aggressive alienate the fans with their lack of sportsmanship. IMO, most fans around the country now see the Spurs as a dirty team, thanks to Bowen and now Horry.  In truth, TD is about as clean a player as their is, and doesn't deserve this, but there it is. 

I had a lot of respect for the Spurs as a team until last night and thought they were on their way to the title.  This incident really has me annoyed and throws me right into the Suns camp. 

[jn]

Here's an odd thing.  Steve Javie, normally so quick on the draw with technicals, went into playoff mode and let more jawing slide.  In this instance it might have been better if he'd dished out a couple T's for complaining (or flagrant fouls) to try and send a message to the teams. 

[Lurker]

The Suns started to play their style with only a few minutes left in the game, and the Spurs were caught off guard.  In truth, they lost their poise and stopped executing the way the had all game.  They only scored 18 points in the last quarter.  Had they continued to score, we'd be talking about an insurmountable lead for San Antonio.  

Possibly this occurred because the refs allowed Phoenix to continue to knock down the Spurs drivers while blowing touch fouls on the other end.  There was Barbosa jumping sideways into a retreating Parker for the "and1", moments later Parker is shoved in the back by Marion on a drive with a no call, Barbosa planted two hands to Parker's chest in a "good hard foul", Nash's fullback move in clearing out Ginobili so Bell could drive follwed by Duncan being called for a moving screen.  There were so many inconsistancies in the way the game was called it is no wonder that "Phoenix could play their game". 

In short the Spurs had to play with hands off while the Suns were allowed to push, shove and grab all night.  At least in the 3 previous games the same level of contact was called on both ends of the court.  SA was the more physical in those games and as it should be in the playoffs were able to play that tougher game.  Last night Javie & cohorts did not allow both teams to play under the same rules. 

[msc]

I didn't think it was that big of a deal (as usual).  Yeah, it was a hard foul and basically a body check.  Big deal, give Rob a one game susupension and move on.  Nash definitely acted it up. 

The NBA has become so wussified its embarrasing at this point.  With all the whining and posturing and crying and finger pointing and acting ... uggh .. I long for the good ole days!

[rickortreat]

Lurker, only a fellow Spurs fan would buy that hogwash.  There were just as many infractions by the Spurs at the end of the game.  And throughout the entire game the Spurs were much more physical than the Suns.  If anything, the Suns becoming as physical as the Spurs were is more apt.

Besides Finley was keeping them in the game with 3's.  At the end, the shots stopped falling, even Duncan had a miss in the post.  The Spurs lost their "edge" and Horry's flagrant ended any chance of the Spurs tying the game up. 

Horry fouled with a little over half a minute left with the Spurs down 3.  IMO, he cost them the game, and possibly the series.

The Spurs were up by 3 with 2:06 left.  Ginobli missed an open shot and Marion got a layup. Duncan missed a shot where he was posted up and Amare got a layup at the other end.  Right there, the Spurs called timeout down 1 pt. with :53 on the clock. Finley missed an open shot and Stoudamire scored again, putting the Spurs down 3.  That was 3 straight misses by the Spurs with 2 minutes left, and I didn't see a whole lot of fouling by the Suns, just missed shots. 

With 24 seconds left and Spurs down 3, Ginobli missed on a layup.  The Suns got the rebound and that's where Cheap Shot made his foul. Finley's Technical Free throw were the last points the Spurs made.  Finley and Parker each missed a 3 pointer while the Suns made free throws.

Get it?  The Spurs lost the game because they couldn't make a shot with 2 minutes left in the game.  They missed 6 shots in a row, excluding Finleys' free throw.  And it had nothing to do with the Suns fouling.

[JoMal]

In short the Spurs had to play with hands off while the Suns were allowed to push, shove and grab all night.  At least in the 3 previous games the same level of contact was called on both ends of the court.  SA was the more physical in those games and as it should be in the playoffs were able to play that tougher game.  Last night Javie & cohorts did not allow both teams to play under the same rules. 

....and yet the Spurs led 97-93 with 2:23 left to play...at home.

At one point, they were up by 11....at home.

Then they missed 9 of their last 10 shots....at home.

But apparently it was all the official's fault for the Spurs losing this game.

Even though it looked like Nash took over the game late and started to make dazzling passes in traffic to Stoudemire.

I have to think THAT was what was on Horry's mind when he hip-checked the clearly overacting Nash into the sideboard. It had to be clear to everyone that Nash did a masterful acting job, making it look like he slammed into that siding, directlng his body in mid-air to make the impact look worse then it was.

Horry didn't even touch him, from my angle. 

[westkoast]

You know speaking of that "trick" Nash does where he runs inbetween another player on his squad and the person defending them, then throws the ball to them while still moving to get them more open should be an illegal screen each and everytime.  I have never seen them call this on him at all.  There is no way you can argue he is 'trying to move to get to another spot' because it is clear he is trying to screen the other player out.  IMO something needs to be said to Jackson about this and the refs need to start blowing the whistle accordingly.

So I finally was able to see a replay and I honestly felt Nash did not get hit all that bad.  Still a hard foul but not any harder then what Barbosa did to Parker just a few minutes earlier.  To me it look almost as if Nash sprawled out because he was just that tired.  Which in turn made it look as if he hit the side cushions so hard he was knocked out and his body went to jelly.  Not the case.  Doesn't look like Horry was able to get enough speed or use enough of his body to do it.

Also, that probably could have been avoided if they called the original intentional foul on Finley.  He clearly fouled him but they let Nash run which let to Horry chasing him and putting a hard enough foul to warrant them to actually blow the whistle.

[Laker Fan]

I love your hypocracy Rick, if that was Iverson (as it has been in so many instances of unprofessional behaviour) you would be giving him a pass because "everybody makes mistakes". I am a Laker fan, as such, I typically detest all things Spurs, but I am also objective and I doubt you saw the same game because no way, no how, was this game called fairly, the Suns got away with murder last night. Having dealt with this subject vis a vie the Lakers all the time, I would just tell everyone to deal with it, but make no mistake, I saw Bell commit at least 2 fouls that were borderline flagrant as was Marion's shove on Parker, I don't wear silver and black glasses and I could see that.

You do not have to confront ANYONE to get suspended for leaving the bench, leaving the bench is sufficient Rick, not only did Amare leave the bench but had a team mate not stopped him he most assuredly would have confronted Horry, IMO, Bell should be suspened as well becasue he got totally in Horry's face, only team mate kept it from getting totally out of control, I could see Diaw getting a pass, but Amare, according to the rules, sits at least the next game. I still think the Spurs would have and will bag this series.  

Truth is, I totally agree with Skander, from the second I saw it, I knew what Horry was trying to do, he was successful, and it was brilliant, regardless of how cheap it was. I also agree with MSC, it was really nothing more than a good hard body check, Nash made it look like a Ronnie Lott takedown when I daresay he almost could have kept his feet, but he, like Horry, knew exactly what he was doing with that award winning acting job, his comment about seeing stars afterward tells me he took advantage of a cheap shot to get the max penalty assessed, EXACTLY like he should have.

[SPURSX3]

The Suns DID get away with a lot more last night than we did.  Last time I checked the travel violation was suppossed to be a turn over and yet it was not called most of the night.  elbows and shoves  were apperant through the whole game.  The Suns atleast stepped it up and came to play.  I don't blame the bad officiating for our loss - Jomal points it out nicely, we had the game in hand.  If you ask me there are two things WE did that allowed us to lose the game.  1.) Tim got himself into foul trouble with some really dumb fouls there - that hurt us big time when we could have used him to dominate with Amare on the bench.  2.) Pop pulled Tony out i the third when we held an 11 point lead and were running things with the suns, he put Vaughn in for Tony after the time out and the Suns cut our lead away.  Bad choices by Tim and Bad choices by Pop.  As for the roughness, the Spurs played thorugh it and still had the lead for nmost of the game, losing Tim affected us more than the rest of that stuff, losing Horry for one game is nothing to the Suns losing Amare and Boris.