Reports say Yao Ming signed extension

[Reality]

The ranks Lurker posted along with Yaos being burdened with a Jeff Van Grunty offense.  Enough said.  Yao is doing well in the NBA.

Randolph since you are so enamored with Nazrs game helping Timmy Dunker, who has Yaos Nazr or elstwhile good PF been these past 3 years?  

Playoffs?  Went for 30+ 3 times and shot 65%.
Anyone but Van Grunty and Hou takes that series.

[Guest_Randy]

Reality,

Why does a post about Yao suddenly become a post about the Spurs and Nazr?  

Anyone that has half a clue and an open mind saw that Nazr did a GREAT job supporting TD in the playoffs.  Houston chose their PF years ago and unfortunately they paid a ton of money to Maurice Taylor to be "the man" at the PF position -- that was a mistake (thankfully, Zeke helped them out of that pit).  

However, if you watched the playoffs last year, you would have realized that it wasn't TMac who determined the fall of the Rockets -- Yao was outplayed on both ends of the floor.  It's a lot like Shaq in the Detroit/Lakers series -- Shaq got his numbers but what the stats didn't show was how many times he got beaten down the floor by Ben Wallace.  You don't pay that kind of money to a player unless that player can strap a team on his back -- and Yao HASN'T shown he can do that.  Sure, he can produce great numbers but an individual producing great numbers doesn't necessarily help his team win, does it?

In order to deserve this contract, Yao has to become better conditioned so that he can withstand the up and down game and he has to become more aggressive -- on the boards as well as offensively and defensively.  

[Lurker]

IMO the true question is:

Does Yao not perform well in the NBA or does he not perform up to YOUR EXPECTATIONS of what he SHOULD do in the NBA?

I beleive that he performs very well in the NBA....just not up to many overinflated expectations of what he should do.

[Joe Vancil]

For my take, I think you have to pay Yao the money, because if you don't, someone else certainly will.  There aren't that many big centers around, and Yao Ming is the best of them outside of O'Neal.  And a big center is always a big advantage.

In doing this, the Rockets have locked up half of their core.  Lock McGrady up, and you've got the other half.  And that's what the Rockets need to do.  After that, it becomes surrounding them with the right pieces.
 

[Guest_Randy]

IMO the true question is:

Does Yao not perform well in the NBA or does he not perform up to YOUR EXPECTATIONS of what he SHOULD do in the NBA?

I beleive that he performs very well in the NBA....just not up to many overinflated expectations of what he should do.

My criteria is this:

You ONLY pay this kind of money to a player who can strap a team on his shoulders and carry them.  I just don't see Yao doing that -- do you?

[Guest_Randy]

For my take, I think you have to pay Yao the money, because if you don't, someone else certainly will.  There aren't that many big centers around, and Yao Ming is the best of them outside of O'Neal.  And a big center is always a big advantage.

In doing this, the Rockets have locked up half of their core.  Lock McGrady up, and you've got the other half.  And that's what the Rockets need to do.  After that, it becomes surrounding them with the right pieces.

How many teams have done that, Joe, but killed their future in doing so.

Examples:

Jazz locked up AK47 for the same reason.  Is he really worth it?

Grizz locked up Gasol for the same reason.  Is he really worth it?

Sonics locked up Ray Allen for the same reason.  Is he really worth it?

Philly locked up Dalembert.  Is he really worth it?

Atlanta locked up JJ.  Is he really worth it?


We have seen many players "locked up" for huge longterm deals and they fail to help their team reach the promise land.  Many of them fail to even rise to their expectations and promise -- and what they end up doing is killing their teams long-term chances of competing.  

Granted, someone would have paid Yao the money -- that's one of the things that I think is wrong in the NBA today.  Owners are spending prime money for players that aren't prime players.  And it kills franchises!  Of course, I guess that's their choice -- I would just like to see owners pay players what they are worth, not the overinflated prices (esp. for big men) that the NBA dictates.

[Lurker]

My criteria is this:

You ONLY pay this kind of money to a player who can strap a team on his shoulders and carry them.  I just don't see Yao doing that -- do you?

I only see two players that haven't missed the playoffs....Shaq & Duncan.

Not KG...look at last year.
Not Kobe....ditto.
Not LeBron...ditto
Not AI....time was but not any more.


So I guess there are a lot of players out there who are overpaid....including a few in LA.

[Lurker]

For my take, I think you have to pay Yao the money, because if you don't, someone else certainly will.  There aren't that many big centers around, and Yao Ming is the best of them outside of O'Neal.  And a big center is always a big advantage.

In doing this, the Rockets have locked up half of their core.  Lock McGrady up, and you've got the other half.  And that's what the Rockets need to do.  After that, it becomes surrounding them with the right pieces.

How many teams have done that, Joe, but killed their future in doing so.

Examples:

Jazz locked up AK47 for the same reason.  Is he really worth it?

Grizz locked up Gasol for the same reason.  Is he really worth it?

Sonics locked up Ray Allen for the same reason.  Is he really worth it?

Philly locked up Dalembert.  Is he really worth it?

Atlanta locked up JJ.  Is he really worth it?


We have seen many players "locked up" for huge longterm deals and they fail to help their team reach the promise land.  Many of them fail to even rise to their expectations and promise -- and what they end up doing is killing their teams long-term chances of competing.  

Granted, someone would have paid Yao the money -- that's one of the things that I think is wrong in the NBA today.  Owners are spending prime money for players that aren't prime players.  And it kills franchises!  Of course, I guess that's their choice -- I would just like to see owners pay players what they are worth, not the overinflated prices (esp. for big men) that the NBA dictates.

Lakers have locked up Kobe.

IS HE REALLY WORTH IT??

[Reality]

Lakers have locked up Kobe.

IS HE REALLY WORTH IT?? [/quote]
  :hail:  :hail:  

[Guest_Randy]

Yes, IMO, he is.  He is the best player at his position.

As for KG, Kobe and others -- as I mentioned before, these guys ARE capable of strapping a team on their shoulders and winning a game.  I haven't seen Yao do that yet!

[Reality]

Yes, IMO, he is.  He is the best player at his position.

As for KG, Kobe and others -- as I mentioned before, these guys ARE capable of strapping a team on their shoulders and winning a game.  I haven't seen Yao do that yet!

How many games would the Lakers need to win this year to bring Kobe up to .500 lifetime without Shaq?

I've seen Yao go for 41 and 22 rebounds.  Does this qualify as "strapping on their shoulders?"  I really do not want to know what Kobe has strapped on his shoulders but i do know he has had some triple doubles.  Is this what you mean?

[WayOutWest]

Yes, IMO, he is.  He is the best player at his position.

As for KG, Kobe and others -- as I mentioned before, these guys ARE capable of strapping a team on their shoulders and winning a game.  I haven't seen Yao do that yet!

I agree Randy, don't know why it isn't obvious to everyone else.

Lock up guys:
Shaq (though his time is probably the shortest, 2 years)
TD
KG
Kobe
T-Mac
LeBron

Then there are bubble guys, I'm not 100% sure but I wouldn't argue against them:
Amare
Dirk
JO
Wade
Nash (only becasue of what he's done with the Suns, otherwise he's a definate NO)

Guys I could and would argue against are all the guys you mentioned although it's a tough arguement with Yao, he's probably a bubble guy who's on the bubble of bubble guys.  You cannot argue his numbers, that's why I've kept him on my fantasy squad but I completely agree he doesn't seem like he's going to live up to "the man" label he needs to be in this league with his talent and now his paycheck.
 

[WayOutWest]

Yes, IMO, he is.  He is the best player at his position.

As for KG, Kobe and others -- as I mentioned before, these guys ARE capable of strapping a team on their shoulders and winning a game.  I haven't seen Yao do that yet!

How many games would the Lakers need to win this year to bring Kobe up to .500 lifetime without Shaq?

I've seen Yao go for 41 and 22 rebounds.  Does this qualify as "strapping on their shoulders?"  I really do not want to know what Kobe has strapped on his shoulders but i do know he has had some triple doubles.  Is this what you mean?

When the game is on the line does Yao want the ball?  Does he demand the ball?  Does he impose his will in the critical moments?

The answer is clearly NO to all of the above.  He's always put up good numbers but he's in the same company as Webber IMO.

[Guest_Randy]

Okay, strapping a team on their shoulders is when the player carries their team to a win.  And Kobe HAS done that -- not just in regular season but in the playoffs (when Shaq went down, he led the Lakers to victory).

I just don't see Yao doing that -- but only time will tell.

[Joe Vancil]

And I look at Yao and see the most dominant center in the league when Shaq retires.  If Kobe is the best at his position, and deserves a max contract for that, why doesn't Yao?  

I'll argue against paying Kirilenko and Gasol and Allen and JJ, but not against Ming.  Top level centers are more rare than any other position.  And Ming is there.

Would I like to see more from him?  Of course.  But what he's giving you currently isn't chopped liver.