Timmy Dunker really cost himself in Games 3 4 5 6 in this years Finals. Had the Spurs romped 4-1, and they didnt, no way Detroit was gonna have that happen, but if they romp 4-1 or Tim is not so shakey in those games, he might have passed Shaq.
Wow. I couldn't disagree more. Mostly because I *DON'T* fault Duncan for 3-4-5, and even if the Spurs had SWEPT Detroit, I wouldn't put Duncan's legacy above that of Shaq's. All of this "Duncan isn't clutch/Duncan is a choker" crap is exactly that...crap. The guy is an absolute gamer, and gives you what he's got every game...which is NOT a quality I'd assign to O'Neal. That doesn't change the fact that Shaq has made a bigger impact on the game as a whole than Duncan has - which is where my "greater legacy" choice is based.
By the numbers, Shaq's 10,379 points ahead of Duncan, meaning, at his current rate, it's going to take Duncan 6 seasons to catch Shaq...assuming Shaq's career is over at this moment. Duncan is 3402 rebounds behind Shaq - 4 seasons back of Shaq. Duncan is 785 BLOCKS behind Shaq - that's 4 seasons back of Shaq - whose career average is EQUAL to Duncan's. Heck, it's going to take Duncan 3 more seasons to catch Shaq in *STEALS*! And that's playing in 82 games a year, at Duncan's career average - which he's been below 3 of his last 4 years.
All of that, and you say a couple of playoff games against Detroit would tilt the scales in Duncan's favor?
Shaq outscored Duncan careerwise. Wow, a whooping 26 to 22.
Joe V April 4, 2004 post* "Without Popavitchs offense Duncan scores 28 a game"
*exact date and quote may vary slightly
Better footwork then Duncan? They both need work. Duncans 12-18 foot bankers completely outdo anything Shaq has ever done away from the hoop. Duncan will also can the occasional 15-20 foot straight jumper. Shaq has no such coordination.
Those 26 to 22 numbers are somewhat misleading. Duncan's high season was 25.5. Not only is Shaq's average above that, but so are 10 of the 13 season's he's played. And compared to Duncan's 22.5 average, Shaq's only had ONE season where he wasn't above that: 2003-04 - his last year in Los Angeles. Shaq's all-time low - 21.5 in 2003-04, beats two of Duncan's seasons - ONE OF THEM BEING THIS CURRENT SEASON! *THIS* *YEAR* was Duncan's low. It was also his career low in games. When you get right down to it, Shaq's supposed to be breaking down...yet he played more games and more minutes per game than Duncan did *THIS* *YEAR*. Played more games this year than Duncan did LAST YEAR.
As for Duncan having this great 15-20 foot jumper, if you're so enamored by that, why aren't we comparing Chris Webber or Dirk Nowitzki to Shaq? That is a WEAKNESS to Duncan's game. Sure, it's nice to have. But I don't want my big man pulling a Karl Malone and trying to prove he can shoot from outside; I want him banging away in the paint - the way Shaq does.
And there is ABSOLUTELY *NOTHING* wrong with Shaq's post footwork. In fact, it's the best I've ever seen. Duncan isn't even in the same ballpark in this regard. Yet you try to dismiss both of them in this regard, and then point out Duncan is willing to shoot a shot I wouldn't want him shooting? What are you trying to do...get me to say, "Oh, Karl Malone was right going to the outside against Chicago"? Ain't gonna happen. If I saw Shaq shooting 15 footers, I'd be blasting him the same way...whether or not they're going it.
And speaking of shots going in, if Duncan's outside game is so great, why is he only at .507 from the field for his career? His high was .549 - his rookie year, when he WASN'T the focal point of the offense. Since then, his best has been a piddly .513. Comparing that with O'Neal, his career worst was .557. His career average is .579. He just came of a year where he finished at .601.
Counterpoint: Put down crack pipe. '96 had all in their prime or at the least very healthy: Charles Barkley, Anfernee Hardaway, Grant Hill, Karl Malone, Reggie Miller, Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal, Gary Payton, Scottie Pippen, David Robinson and John Stockton. No comparison in any way shape or form to 2004.
Not to mention the FIBA refs vs Timmy Dunker.
Counter to the counterpoint - Duncan missed the 2000 Olympic games with INJURY. Duncan missed the 1998 WCB because of the NBA lockout. Shaq's never had these troubles.
And a bigger counter to the counterpoint - shall we discuss the 1994 WCB team that Shaq anchored? Something tells me that outside of Marbury, I think you'll take the 2004 Olympic team. The 1994 was nothing more than a giant marketing gimmick, and they outperformed the 2004 Olympic Team. In fact, Duncan's Olympic Team lost more games at the Olympics BY ITSELF than *ALL* the other Olympic Teams in U.S. History - college or pro - COMBINED. That's far from a trivial distinction.
There's no crack pipe involved. Shaq won. Duncan lost. And Shaq had to face the same kind of FIBA refs that Duncan did; he did it twice, and WON BOTH TIMES. The difference is that Shaq, with his footwork and strength, ADJUSTED. Duncan DIDN'T. The FIBA refs weren't picking on Duncan...Duncan is simply used to the star-level calls/no-calls of the pathetic officiating of the NBA. Face it - Duncan embarrassed himself on the Olympic team - both on the court with his play, and off the court with his whining about the refs. He showed us he's capable of competing with Shaq in the whining game....he just typically chooses not to.
to be continued but basically i say 2005-6 '6-'7 will be more decisive.
For that year to be "decisive," Duncan would have to lead a 16-1 Spurs team through the playoffs to the Championship, named the MVP, with Duncan averaging, for the season, 126.5 points, 41.5 rebounds, and 9.57 blocks per game.
Actually, if Duncan did just 1/4th of that - 31.6, 10.4, 2.39 - along with winning the Championship, I might BEGIN to mention Duncan's legacy and comparing it to Shaq's. But that's the kind of season it's going to take....or 5 or 6 more at Duncan's CURRENT level, with his teams having playoff success. The difference is THAT BIG, Reality.
