Serge Ibaka, role player with future on playoff team

[Reality]

In my continuing series on role players who play an important part in their teams championship pursuit (DeJuan Blair, and Championship obtainment (Fabs Oberto, Brent Barrdog, Man From Nazr and more, Andrew Superbyns, Shannon Brown), i bring you the following rookie:

Serge Ibaka, 6'10" 20 year old PF for the OKC Thunder.  In 17 min per game, he's pulling down a near Blairlike 14.3 boards per 48.  Good for 3rd amoung rookies with SuperBlair of course at #1 and the Jomal liked Jon Brockman at #2 with 15.8, albeit in less minutes then Blair and Ibaka.

To the would-be fabricators (including 'sause and now sadly Vancil), notice just as with the above Championship Rolers i did not say "Ibaka will be the leagues MVP, Ibaka will lead OKC to a title this year, Ibaka will be a 20/20 guy next season" or any of the other made up b.s. you try ascribing to me.  I do say Ibaka will be a valuable contributor on an OKC playoff team this year and into the future barring injury.  He's not coached by Greg DumbAssovich, he's going to get some valuable minutes and not be benched in favor of Mike Finley and Matty Bonehead.

To wit, 'Baka did 24 minutes vs Phoenix last night and after the Suns closed a 12 point deficit to 3, SuperBaka had a most timely score to ice the game and finish with 15 pts and 9 boards.  This coming after the Thunder were jobbed by the Lakerlike refs vs Utah in Pastyville and then choked away a nice lead vs Marshmello Anthony and the Thuggets for two straight losses.  (well one loss and one job).

Alas, it's 49 wins, currently 6th seed with a good opportunity to stay there and Serge Ibaka playing a role to the basketball intelligents who realize such. 

[Reality]

7 blocks vs the Flamers last night.  5 boards and a steal in only 28 minutes.

One of his best blocks was protecting an 88-86 Thunder lead with 2:30 to go.  Kome tried a 28 footer en route to his 12-28 shooting night.  Clang.  Odom gets the rebound and tries to shoot and BAM, Serge there to swat it back!  Of course this is Laker Winnin Basketball so lets see what ensued after that:

Thunder up 88-86
That Serge Swat of Odumb falls to Shannon Brown who gets it over to Kobes.
Kobes drives, travels, has no prayer so jumps into a set Collison.  Tweet!  No travel call, defensive blocking foul on Collison.  Kobes nods knowingly, aware of whats going on.
88-88

Thunder jumpshot bounces on rim but Serge Ibaka is there for the tip in over Gasoft.  90-88 Thunder, right?  Tweet!  The claim is that the ball was sitting on the rim, not bouncing slightly above.  Sure looked to me like it bounced.  We won't know because TNT shows an overhead angle and not a sideview.  Good enough for Doug Laker Collins to pronounce that the ball was "sitting on the rim".  Doug cannot see thru the basketball but hey, he knows where his bread is buttered.

Still not done, now we got Durant trying to get position with hairboi Artest bodying him.  Fine, its playoff hoop.  Let Artest put a body on him.  But when Durant breaks free from Artest and just slightly has incidental contact with Gasoft, Gasoft decides to flop backwords Derrick Swisher style, his arms rotating in little circles as if he was swing dancing with W.O.W. and westkoast at a West Hollywood bar.  Tweet! You know that's good for another foul call.

So there you have it.  A Thunder lead taken down by that tough, playoff savvy Laker team. 
My Laker Winnin Juice sales spike -again.

[Joe Vancil]

In my continuing series on role players who play an important part in their teams championship pursuit (DeJuan Blair, and Championship obtainment (Fabs Oberto, Brent Barrdog, Man From Nazr and more, Andrew Superbyns, Shannon Brown), i bring you the following rookie:

Serge Ibaka, 6'10" 20 year old PF for the OKC Thunder.  In 17 min per game, he's pulling down a near Blairlike 14.3 boards per 48.  Good for 3rd amoung rookies with SuperBlair of course at #1 and the Jomal liked Jon Brockman at #2 with 15.8, albeit in less minutes then Blair and Ibaka.

To the would-be fabricators (including 'sause and now sadly Vancil), notice just as with the above Championship Rolers i did not say "Ibaka will be the leagues MVP, Ibaka will lead OKC to a title this year, Ibaka will be a 20/20 guy next season" or any of the other made up b.s. you try ascribing to me.  I do say Ibaka will be a valuable contributor on an OKC playoff team this year and into the future barring injury.  He's not coached by Greg DumbAssovich, he's going to get some valuable minutes and not be benched in favor of Mike Finley and Matty Bonehead.

To wit, 'Baka did 24 minutes vs Phoenix last night and after the Suns closed a 12 point deficit to 3, SuperBaka had a most timely score to ice the game and finish with 15 pts and 9 boards.  This coming after the Thunder were jobbed by the Lakerlike refs vs Utah in Pastyville and then choked away a nice lead vs Marshmello Anthony and the Thuggets for two straight losses.  (well one loss and one job).

Alas, it's 49 wins, currently 6th seed with a good opportunity to stay there and Serge Ibaka playing a role to the basketball intelligents who realize such. 

I like Ibaka.  And if you over-hype him the way you did Oberto and - AS YOU SAID OF HIM, "ALL-STAR POTENTIAL" - Blair, I'll make fun of him the same way I make fun of Blair.

Amazing you're not hyping Paul Millsap last year, or Joel Przybilla, or even Greg Ostertag in past seasons.  Ditto for Chris Anderson, Bo Outlaw, or tons of other awesome role-playing types.  But then again, I *LIKE* guys like this.  I just stop liking them when people start acting like they're all-stars.

[Joe Vancil]

Thunder jumpshot bounces on rim but Serge Ibaka is there for the tip in over Gasoft.  90-88 Thunder, right?  Tweet!  The claim is that the ball was sitting on the rim, not bouncing slightly above.  Sure looked to me like it bounced.  We won't know because TNT shows an overhead angle and not a sideview.  Good enough for Doug Laker Collins to pronounce that the ball was "sitting on the rim".  Doug cannot see thru the basketball but hey, he knows where his bread is buttered.

And for those of you at home, wondering about the actual *RULE* involved here, no, we are NOT playing by the rules of international basketball, where any "bounce" might be of consequence.  The proper angle to see whether or not it is a goal-tending is the angle from above the rim.  Whether or not a basketball is going up or down, whether it bounces or not, if the ball is above the rim, obscuring the rim, IT'S GOAL-TENDING.

[Reality]

quote the rule, otherwise it will just be more of your blowhardedness.

My understanding is the rule states that if the ball is not lying against the rim and ANY part of the ball is outside the cylinder then it may be tipped in.

[westkoast]

quote the rule, otherwise it will just be more of your blowhardedness.

My understanding is the rule states that if the ball is not lying against the rim and ANY part of the ball is outside the cylinder then it may be tipped in.

http://www.nba.com/analysis/rules_11.html

a. Touch the ball or the basket ring when the ball is using the basket ring as its lower base.
EXCEPTION: If a player near his own basket has his hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if his contact with the ball continues after the ball enters the cylinder, or if, in such action, he touches the basket.

b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.

c. For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgment of the official, must have a chance to score.

d. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched any part of the backboard above ring level, whether the ball is considered on its upward or downward flight.

e. During a field goal attempt, touch a ball after it has touched the backboard below the ring level and while the ball is on its upward flight.

f. Trap the ball against the face of the backboard. (To be a trapped ball, three elements must exist simultaneously. The hand, the ball and the backboard must all occur at the same time. A batted ball against the backboard is not a trapped ball.)

g. Touch any live ball from within the playing area that is on its downward flight with an opportunity to touch the basket ring. This is considered to be a "field goal attempt" or trying for a goal.

h. Touch the ball at any time with a hand which is through the basket ring.

i. Vibrate the rim or backboard so as to cause the ball to make an unnatural bounce.
PENALTY: If the violation is at the opponent's basket, the offended team is awarded two points, if the attempt is from the two point zone and three points if it is from the three point zone. The crediting of the score and subsequent procedure is the same as if the awarded score has resulted from the ball having gone through the basket, except that the official shall hand the ball to a player of the team entitled to the throw-in. If the violation is at a team's own basket, no points can be scored and the ball is awarded to the offended team at the free throw line extended on either sideline. If there is a violation by both teams, play shall be resumed by a jump ball between any two opponents at the center circle.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joe is right,  You are wrong.  Again, what something is 'in your book' is not what is correct to the rest of us on the planet.

[WayOutWest]

quote the rule, otherwise it will just be more of your blowhardedness.

My understanding is the rule states that if the ball is not lying against the rim and ANY part of the ball is outside the cylinder then it may be tipped in.

Joe is right,  You are wrong.  Again, what something is 'in your book' is not what is correct to the rest of us on the planet.

When Retardity starts ANYTHING with "My understanding" it will always end in:



Yes, I am bored.  Powerpoint is lame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Joe Vancil]

quote the rule, otherwise it will just be more of your blowhardedness.

My understanding is the rule states that if the ball is not lying against the rim and ANY part of the ball is outside the cylinder then it may be tipped in.

The fact that you DO NOT know the rule, and ask me once again to quote something, when you, yourself, provide no quotes outside of newspaper articles is the same dodge you always employ.

My answer:  *NO*.  I will *NOT* do YOUR homework in LEARNING THE RULES OF THE GAME YOU COMMENT ON for you.  Learn them yourself.  It will spare you further embarrassment.

The very fact that you don't know the goaltending rule actually surprises me.  The very fact that EVEN BY YOUR INTERPRETATION AS STATED ABOVE, you criticize the angle that the broadcast showed, when it should be obvious that this would be one angle necessary to see by your interpretation - that does *NOT* surprise me.

[Reality]

b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joe is right,  You are wrong.  Again, what something is 'in your book' is not what is correct to the rest of us on the planet.

"within the imaginary cylinder"

The ball was not within.  Half the ball was in, half was out when Serge tipped the ball.

[Reality]

quote the rule, otherwise it will just be more of your blowhardedness.

My understanding is the rule states that if the ball is not lying against the rim and ANY part of the ball is outside the cylinder then it may be tipped in.

The fact that you DO NOT know the rule, and ask me once again to quote something, when you, yourself, provide no quotes outside of newspaper articles is the same dodge you always employ.

My answer:  *NO*.  I will *NOT* do YOUR homework in LEARNING THE RULES OF THE GAME YOU COMMENT ON for you.  Learn them yourself.  It will spare you further embarrassment.

The very fact that you don't know the goaltending rule actually surprises me.  The very fact that EVEN BY YOUR INTERPRETATION AS STATED ABOVE, you criticize the angle that the broadcast showed, when it should be obvious that this would be one angle necessary to see by your interpretation - that does *NOT* surprise me.

You claim to know the rule blowhard, but don't post it.
I claimed:

The claim is that the ball was sitting on the rim, not bouncing slightly above.  Sure looked to me like it bounced.  We won't know because TNT shows an overhead angle and not a sideview.  Good enough for Doug Laker Collins to pronounce that the ball was "sitting on the rim".  Doug cannot see thru the basketball but hey, he knows where his bread is buttered.

I will find out the rule.  I believe the rule is going to be that if any part of the ball is outside the cylinder and going up, it's tippable.

The very fact that EVEN BY YOUR INTERPRETATION AS STATED ABOVE, you criticize the angle that the broadcast showed, when it should be obvious that this would be one angle necessary to see by your interpretation - that does *NOT* surprise me.

In checking to see if a ball is sitting on the rim or not, use an overhead shot?
Stupid.
If checking to see if the ball was in the cylinder or not, use an overhead shot.

[westkoast]

b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Joe is right,  You are wrong.  Again, what something is 'in your book' is not what is correct to the rest of us on the planet.

"within the imaginary cylinder"

The ball was not within.  Half the ball was in, half was out when Serge tipped the ball.

Seriously?  After clearly being shown what the rule says, after countless years of goal tending being called this way, and after knowing that the only time you ever seen this not being called a goal tend is in international play, you continue on.

The ball being in the imaginary cylinder means any piece of the ball being in the imaginary cylinder.  Not what Reality deems to be the correct amount.  Use your nogging for a minute and think logically.  How would the refs be able to tell in real time which percentage of the ball is actually in the cylinder?  If any piece of the ball is in it, it is goal tending.  Much like if a ball is laying on the rim rolling out but still touching the rim you can't tip it back in.  That is goal tending as well.

[Joe Vancil]

quote the rule, otherwise it will just be more of your blowhardedness.

My understanding is the rule states that if the ball is not lying against the rim and ANY part of the ball is outside the cylinder then it may be tipped in.

The fact that you DO NOT know the rule, and ask me once again to quote something, when you, yourself, provide no quotes outside of newspaper articles is the same dodge you always employ.

My answer:  *NO*.  I will *NOT* do YOUR homework in LEARNING THE RULES OF THE GAME YOU COMMENT ON for you.  Learn them yourself.  It will spare you further embarrassment.

The very fact that you don't know the goaltending rule actually surprises me.  The very fact that EVEN BY YOUR INTERPRETATION AS STATED ABOVE, you criticize the angle that the broadcast showed, when it should be obvious that this would be one angle necessary to see by your interpretation - that does *NOT* surprise me.

You claim to know the rule blowhard, but don't post it.
I claimed:

The claim is that the ball was sitting on the rim, not bouncing slightly above.  Sure looked to me like it bounced.  We won't know because TNT shows an overhead angle and not a sideview.  Good enough for Doug Laker Collins to pronounce that the ball was "sitting on the rim".  Doug cannot see thru the basketball but hey, he knows where his bread is buttered.

I will find out the rule.  I believe the rule is going to be that if any part of the ball is outside the cylinder and going up, it's tippable.

The very fact that EVEN BY YOUR INTERPRETATION AS STATED ABOVE, you criticize the angle that the broadcast showed, when it should be obvious that this would be one angle necessary to see by your interpretation - that does *NOT* surprise me.

In checking to see if a ball is sitting on the rim or not, use an overhead shot?
Stupid.
If checking to see if the ball was in the cylinder or not, use an overhead shot.

Okay - we'll try this one more time - since you have no clue as to what goaltending as defined by the NBA rules versus the Internationl rules is.

If the ball is WITHIN THE CYLINDER - not COMPLETELY WITHIN THE CYLINER, but merely WITHIN THE CYLINDER, it cannot be touched.  As such, whether it is in contact with the rim or not is IRRELEVANT.

As for not posting the rule?  You're darn right.  Posting the rule only encourages you to argue the definition - which is pretty much par far the course when dealing with such things with you.  It is a waste of time.  You don't want to know the rule;  you want me to waste my time looking it up, figuring that I'll just let it drop, and thereby leaving you room to say that my point has not been proven.  The fact that other people are willing to do this for you is ridiculous to the point of obscene.

The fact is that when people looked up the definition, everyone sees that I'm right, and you're wrong.  Everyone but *YOU*.  And anyone here would have told you that before having to read the rule, because everyone of us here - again, other than you - knows the rule.

You are ignorant of such things because you CHOOSE to be ignorant of such things.

The fact is that one of us has read the rulebook and one of us hasn't.  The fact that I cannot quote it word for word does not mean that you, who've never bothered reading it, are as well-versed on its contents as I am.

But since you're so great at asking for references, prove to me that in regards to knowing the rules, I've made some sort of mistake on here.  EVER.  Message thread and quote.  When I don't know, or when I'm not sure, I *ASK*.  I don't try to play like I know it.

You're right that there's a blowhard on this thread.  It's the guy who doesn't know the rule and its application, and has to start his interpretation with, "My understanding is..."  Your understanding is wrong.

[Reality]

Blowhard,
c. For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgment of the official, must have a chance to score.

Which it did not.
The ref I'm consulting with concurs that as the rule states, once the ball has touched the rim (as it had), it now becomes a judgement call by the official as to whether or not the ball had a chance to score.
The replays clearly show the ball about to fall outside of the hoop.

[Reality]

b. Touch the ball when it is above the basket ring and within the imaginary cylinder.
c. For goaltending to occur, the ball, in the judgment of the official, must have a chance to score.

If c does not cancel out b, then Serge most def basket interfered as I stated half the ball was still inside the cylinder. 
I will also add that what is called in NBA games and what the rules state are often not the same at all.  Travelling, hand checking, etc.  I've seen tons of cleanups/putbacks/tip ins/tip slams after misses that certainly had a portion of the ball inside the cylinder yet the score was allowed with no call whatsoever.  Tons.

[Reality]

I like Ibaka.  And if you over-hype him the way you did Oberto and - AS YOU SAID OF HIM, "ALL-STAR POTENTIAL" - Blair, I'll make fun of him the same way I make fun of Blair.

Nice try blowhard.  A 20 year old rookie whom you had no clue about gets 7 blocks vs the Lakers in a playoff game and rather then simply complimenting him you're trying to put some spin on it.
I'll stand by my exact op ib Serge.

I'll also stand by Blair having All Star potential.  Your prognasticating has zero credibility (see OKC whom btw Serge plays for), so for you to be offering some kind of blowhard threat about my prognosting is quite hippo.