Kobe OWNS!!!!

[Joe Vancil]

When a player starts and plays 30 minutes, or comes off the bench and plays 30 minutes, either way he still played 30 game minutes.  Speaking of Tim Dunkan.  Use those accounting skills to grasp.

Is it more important for the 30 minutes to include the first quarter or the fourth quarter?

The rest of your ramble only verifies your total lack of understanding of the finer nuances of a 82 game season and a roster with 4 new players (incl 3 new starters) in the 9 man rotation.  Add in 2 players in their 2nd season with the Spurs (Hill, Mason) as well as none of those 6 really playing with Manu and the team SHOULD have struggled out of the gate.  If you can do the math that means Parker, Duncan and Manu are the only Spurs that are getting major minutes that have been in Pop's scheme for more than 1+ season.

To keep it simple a numbering system has been developed for you PopApologists.

#1 is the "Pops *system* takes a year or two to learn."
What a weak excuse.
Championships with Brent Barrdog in year one, also Man From Nazr who for that matter came over at the half season mark.    Got another lamer excuse?  Of course you do.   
Ron Artest fitting in with the Flamers as is Brown the outcast shooting guard.  Payton and Malone did not take over a year to learn Phil Winters offense, a new *system* for them.

Not exactly sure what the argument here is, but Payton certainly didn't take to the triangle easily, and Malone was an 18-year veteran from an extremely disciplined system.  More often than not, players *DO* take time to adjust to the triangle offense.

[JoMal]

No actually Paul Pierce pushed off Ron Artest and sent him flying.  Though I already know your response.  Artest, whom you loved in the past, has learned the fine art of flopping from Derek Fisher in just 40 some odd games.  The refs somehow needed the Lakers to beat the Celtics.  They wished in Kobe's jumper and they made sure to move the rim when Ray Allen chucked up his shot.  The Lakers didn't win this one!  It was all cheating!

Did I sum it off well enough?

Oh, yes, wk, you are completely correct in assessing how strong Pierece must be. The strongest man ever, to have thrown the 260 pound Artest one-handed into the third row of the bleachers, there, from twenty feet away as he moved away from him. No way Ron could possibly fake that, dummy that he is.

Who cares anyway. NBA is fixed for key outcomes and glorious finishes, and.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Joe Vancil]

Well, the Ray Allen part was definitely cheating, because he's on my fantasy NBA team, and David Stern needs me to lose.

< No, I'm not serious.  At least not entirely. >

[Reality]

Did I sum it off well enough?

No but Jomal did. 

Another Customer Appreciation day for you tho, WoWkoast.   

[westkoast]

No actually Paul Pierce pushed off Ron Artest and sent him flying.  Though I already know your response.  Artest, whom you loved in the past, has learned the fine art of flopping from Derek Fisher in just 40 some odd games.  The refs somehow needed the Lakers to beat the Celtics.  They wished in Kobe's jumper and they made sure to move the rim when Ray Allen chucked up his shot.  The Lakers didn't win this one!  It was all cheating!

Did I sum it off well enough?

Oh, yes, wk, you are completely correct in assessing how strong Pierece must be. The strongest man ever, to have thrown the 260 pound Artest one-handed into the third row of the bleachers, there, from twenty feet away as he moved away from him. No way Ron could possibly fake that, dummy that he is.

Who cares anyway. NBA is fixed for key outcomes and glorious finishes, and.......zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Ahh Sir Issac JoMaL that would have been a nice reply had that even mattered.  He was running in that direction as it is and got pushed in a direction his body wasn't prepared to travel in but let's get off the physics for a second....   

The foul in that instance driving to the hoopp is called based on the offensive player creating separation.  That give the offensive player an unfair advantage.  Especially considering hand check has long been tossed out the window.  The foul is not based on how far a player goes into the stands. Or whether a player is strong enough to move another player.  That goes double for the guy who can't form his own thoughts.  Paul Pierce pushed off.  You could see it in the replay.  They even ran if back and you could see exactly where it was at.  The commentators saw it.    So whether you think hes strong enough to push Ron Artest far is irrelevant.  What's relevant is if there was seperation made by PP with his off arm to create space and there was. 

Did Lord Sternfish buy a special ball in which he controlled from a remote in New York for that game?  You know he MADE Kobe hit the shot under good defense and he MADE Ray Allen miss. 

[JoMal]

Ahh Sir Issac JoMaL that would have been a nice reply had that even mattered.  He was running in that direction as it is and got pushed in a direction his body wasn't prepared to travel in but let's get off the physics for a second....   

The foul in that instance driving to the hoopp is called based on the offensive player creating separation.  That give the offensive player an unfair advantage.  Especially considering hand check has long been tossed out the window.  The foul is not based on how far a player goes into the stands. Or whether a player is strong enough to move another player.  That goes double for the guy who can't form his own thoughts.  Paul Pierce pushed off.  You could see it in the replay.  They even ran if back and you could see exactly where it was at.  The commentators saw it.    So whether you think hes strong enough to push Ron Artest far is irrelevant.  What's relevant is if there was seperation made by PP with his off arm to create space and there was. 

Did Lord Sternfish buy a special ball in which he controlled from a remote in New York for that game?  You know he MADE Kobe hit the shot under good defense and he MADE Ray Allen miss. 

Ooooh, let's not forget physics, wk. I am very attached to it while on this earth.

But NBA quality basketball being the fair and unbiased game that we all know that it is, you have to wonder why it was so important to call anything at all at that point ? unless Artest sold it as much as possible.

I have no real issue with the call being made, just how?.um?. some people want to defend it as such an obvious throw-down when I think we all know that if Artest had not bothered throwing himself into someone?s lap in such dramatics maybe no call would have been even made and we would just be talking about the Kobe EOG shot and Allen?s miss instead.

[Reality]

When a player starts and plays 30 minutes, or comes off the bench and plays 30 minutes, either way he still played 30 game minutes.  Speaking of Tim Dunkan.  Use those accounting skills to grasp.

Is it more important for the 30 minutes to include the first quarter or the fourth quarter?

The rest of your ramble only verifies your total lack of understanding of the finer nuances of a 82 game season and a roster with 4 new players (incl 3 new starters) in the 9 man rotation.  Add in 2 players in their 2nd season with the Spurs (Hill, Mason) as well as none of those 6 really playing with Manu and the team SHOULD have struggled out of the gate.  If you can do the math that means Parker, Duncan and Manu are the only Spurs that are getting major minutes that have been in Pop's scheme for more than 1+ season.

To keep it simple a numbering system has been developed for you PopApologists.

#1 is the "Pops *system* takes a year or two to learn."
What a weak excuse.
Championships with Brent Barrdog in year one, also Man From Nazr who for that matter came over at the half season mark.    Got another lamer excuse?  Of course you do.   
Ron Artest fitting in with the Flamers as is Brown the outcast shooting guard.  Payton and Malone did not take over a year to learn Phil Winters offense, a new *system* for them.

Not exactly sure what the argument here is, but Payton certainly didn't take to the triangle easily, and Malone was an 18-year veteran from an extremely disciplined system.  More often than not, players *DO* take time to adjust to the triangle offense.

Not exactly sure what you are not exactly sure of.
Lurkers excuse was, well you read it.
I already showed Barrdog and Man From Nazr as 1st year Spurs getting plenty of minutes yet the Spurs winning a championship.  Heck lets look at the other two titles.
Stephen Jackson played the 4th most minutes as the Spurs rolled to 60-22 in 2002-3 and then the 3rd most minutes in the playoffs resulting in a RealSpurs Championship.
2007 altho Frankie Elson was pretty much iced out of the playoffs, he got 20 min per game in the reg season and including being put in Pops phony self serving *doghouse* for many a game thus greatly lowering his mpg ave.

The lame excuse is debunked.

As to the Lakers, Gasol came over and 1st year while they needed more firepower from the Big 3 of Kobme, Dick Bavetta and Joey Crawford they still gave Boston a run for their money in the finals.  Yet is was Gasols 1st year. 

You're still not followup commenting on Jefferson.  http://forums.phillyarena.com/index.php?topic=5695.45

[Joe Vancil]

Are we talking players going to LA, or players going to San An?

The triangle is an INCREDIBLY difficult offense to learn.  You can cite an old veteran like Malone who succeeded, but I can just as easily cite the plethora of point guards who've failed, necessitating the re-acquisition of Derek Fisher.  You can cite your Gasol, but I can cite my Payton.  And general consensus agrees with me.

San An is an entirely different scenario.

[Reality]

We were talking about the Spurs, until you brought up the Lakers.
To wit, I can multitask. 

Payton i do not see how his 1st season as a Laker could be considered a failure as they reached the Finals.  Paytons problem was not that he did not understand the triangle, but that he thought (correctly so) that his skills would be better put to use in a pick and roll.  In a tribute to Phil Jacksons coaching superiority over Popovich, Payton asked Jackson to bag the triangle when the Spurs were up 2-0 in the playoffs.  Phil listened, ad-just-ed (there is that 3 syllable word Popovich) and the Lakers took the Spurs 4 straight as Dumbassovich sat on the sidelines making the one and only move he knows, with his arms folded making the "4 dumb" offensive gesture. 

To the point Joe yes i do think Payton struggled with the triangle but thankfully you are under no delusion re Poppeds coaching.

So now back to the Spurs.....

[Joe Vancil]

My mistake.  I thought the following - by you, before I even started on this thread - was about the Lakers.

Ron Artest fitting in with the Flamers as is Brown the outcast shooting guard.  Payton and Malone did not take over a year to learn Phil Winters offense, a new *system* for them.

As for Popovich, whether you fit in to his system or not is less of a question, as he has less of a system.  It's more, "Can you play defense?"  If the answer is not, "No," then you're pretty much a fit - even if the answer is "Only when I want to."  How often you want to is pretty much the marker for your playing time.

Don't believe me?  Name the last egregiously-bad defender who logged important minutes on the Spurs.

[Reality]

Mike Finley

[Lurker]

As for Popovich, whether you fit in to his system or not is less of a question, as he has less of a system.  It's more, "Can you play defense?"  If the answer is not, "No," then you're pretty much a fit - even if the answer is "Only when I want to."  How often you want to is pretty much the marker for your playing time.

WOW!

Joe, I have never seen you be so shallow regarding the finer nuances of basketball.  Just don't know where to start in response so I think I will just let this one go.

[Reality]

As for Popovich, whether you fit in to his system or not is less of a question, as he has less of a system.  It's more, "Can you play defense?"  If the answer is not, "No," then you're pretty much a fit - even if the answer is "Only when I want to."  How often you want to is pretty much the marker for your playing time.

WOW!

Joe, I have never seen you be so shallow regarding the finer nuances of basketball.  Just don't know where to start in response so I think I will just let this one go.

league opponents cower at the thought of facing the D of PF/SF Mike Finley and Matt Bonner.

Lurker should we translate this as your skirt off regarding your PopApologist Excuse #1 followup?  Or rather non followup?

[Lurker]

  league opponents cower at the thought of facing the D of PF/SF Mike Finley and Matt Bonner.

Lurker should we translate this as your skirt off regarding your PopApologist Excuse #1 followup?  Or rather non followup?

And how many minutes has Finley played?  And if you were even remotely cognizant of the team you claim to follow then you would realize Finley played mostly SG.  And that Bonner plays PF/C

reality, try looking at this year's team.  Not last year's.

And I gave up long ago on trying to discuss basketball with you in any sort of manner.  I mostly just try to post corrections when you go so far overboard that even non-basketball fans laugh when I show them your comments.

[Joe Vancil]

As for Popovich, whether you fit in to his system or not is less of a question, as he has less of a system.  It's more, "Can you play defense?"  If the answer is not, "No," then you're pretty much a fit - even if the answer is "Only when I want to."  How often you want to is pretty much the marker for your playing time.

WOW!

Joe, I have never seen you be so shallow regarding the finer nuances of basketball.  Just don't know where to start in response so I think I will just let this one go.

While, obviously, I'm overstating things, I'm still very skeptical of Popovich's ability to run any sort of offense.  In fact, have the Spurs won since Carlessimo left?  While Carlessimo is a DREADFUL coach (which is why I jokingly refer to him as P.J. Car-loss-imo), he does know the X's and O's for an offense.


And while Reality isn't high on Finley's D, I have to remind everyone that when he broke into the league, he broke in as a defender.  His instincts are still right;  he's just older and slower.