Author Topic: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.  (Read 7331 times)

Offline ziggy

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #15 on: December 01, 2009, 06:52:26 PM »
Because they are dumb.

You kill me sometimes rick.  You wag your finger at punking, and then you go about trying to punk everybody with this thread.  One can never tell when you are serious or not.
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #16 on: December 01, 2009, 07:24:43 PM »
No, I'm sincere about this. I'm not saying Allen is a good guy or anything like that, but I do think he's a great ball player and I'd like to see him get a shot at a ring. I really think he could help a lot of teams and a many GM's are fools for not offering him an opportunity.

To me it seems obvious that if you could add a player that can put up 20 plus points and 5 assists to a good team's backcourt, your probably going to improve that team.  Now teams that already have enough quality guards don't need him. He'd be redundant in San Antonio since they have Parker, but in LA he'd replace Fisher and that is a major upgrade. The Lakers would end up winning a few more games than they would otherwise, because of the points Allen could chip in.  It would, however, diminish Kobe's chances at a scoring title, so if he cares about that bringing in Allen would be a bad idea.

With the Sixers, AI obviously has less of a chance at a title, but at least it's better than Memphis. Since they're short a good guard right now as a result of injury he's needed and needed to start. I hope to hear that they've signed him soon.

Offline Derek Bodner

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #17 on: December 01, 2009, 07:33:54 PM »
I have long learned trying to talk about AI is like pissing in the wind.  Neither side of the coin is rational.  Not his supporters, and not his detractors.

Offline rickortreat

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2009, 07:36:44 PM »
I just read that Allen has been offered a 1 year contract with the Sixers, but hasn't accepted the offer yet.

I want him to do well to demonstrate just how good he still can be. And how dumb basketball people are to  think he's not worth signing.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2009, 09:52:56 PM »
Because they are dumb.

I think you are the only person around here that thinks that, that in of itself should tell you something.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2009, 09:56:31 PM »

Correction Lurker, the Lakers added THE head case.  Lakers always go for the best!

That's who I meant. 

Why would the Lakers want to deal with both Artest & Iverson?
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2009, 10:01:50 PM »
rick,

At this point in his career it isn't what Iverson does on the court, it is what he does inside the locker room.

And THAT is what none of the contenders want. 

It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2009, 10:05:15 PM »

Correction Lurker, the Lakers added THE head case.  Lakers always go for the best!

That's who I meant. 

Why would the Lakers want to deal with both Artest & Iverson?

Adding Cryverson to the Lakers/Artest mix is like dropping a grenade on Hiroshima back in 45.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

jemagee

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2009, 10:37:15 PM »
Quote
At this point in his career it isn't what Iverson does on the court, it is what he does inside the locker room.

Not entirely - since his refusAl to accept a bench role is one of the reasons no teams want him.  Sixers are hoping nostalgia increases one of the worst attendances in the league. Might for a couple weeks, won't make the sixers any better in my opinion, not long term, & now you just waste a season since Iverson probably wouldn't be on the roster next year, but young guys and Iverson don't tend to go well together.

Hello Iverson, good bye Jrue

Offline rickortreat

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2009, 10:47:52 PM »
Don't be surprised to see Jrue and AI in the same backcourt. Because of his size Holiday is a good fit with AI, just as Iguodala is. This gives the Sixers a stronger small lineup option.

The only problem will be when Lou comes back, but one way or another, Lou will get his minutes.

The important thing is that now the Sixers have a good enough back court to compete and their worst guard is Green. With Brand back they also have inside scoring and rebounding, so I expect them to start winning.

Sixers have lost 7 straight and are desperate for a win, adding a reliable 20+ scorer can't hurt, especially when they seem to go flat one quarter every game.

Offline ziggy

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2009, 11:50:46 PM »
No, I'm sincere about this. I'm not saying Allen is a good guy or anything like that, but I do think he's a great ball player and I'd like to see him get a shot at a ring. I really think he could help a lot of teams and a many GM's are fools for not offering him an opportunity.

To me it seems obvious that if you could add a player that can put up 20 plus points and 5 assists to a good team's backcourt, your probably going to improve that team.  Now teams that already have enough quality guards don't need him. He'd be redundant in San Antonio since they have Parker, but in LA he'd replace Fisher and that is a major upgrade. The Lakers would end up winning a few more games than they would otherwise, because of the points Allen could chip in.  It would, however, diminish Kobe's chances at a scoring title, so if he cares about that bringing in Allen would be a bad idea.

With the Sixers, AI obviously has less of a chance at a title, but at least it's better than Memphis. Since they're short a good guard right now as a result of injury he's needed and needed to start. I hope to hear that they've signed him soon.

So rick, you want to bash Brandon Roy for being frustrated at how his role is changing, and not knowing how to fit with Andre Miller, but you call all NBA GM's dumb for not wanting to add Allen Iverson who quit on Detroit last year, and Memphis this year because he wasn't starting and wasn't the absolute focus of the offense.  That's what you are saying, and yet you claim to be serious, and not trying to punk all of us?  Really rick, that is what you are saying?
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

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Offline Lurker

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #26 on: December 02, 2009, 07:43:55 AM »
Quote
At this point in his career it isn't what Iverson does on the court, it is what he does inside the locker room.

Not entirely - since his refusAl to accept a bench role is one of the reasons no teams want him. 


No it is more than that.  It is calling out his coaches.  It is demanding to be the focus of the offense.  It is being late for practice.  It is his attitude and the effect on team chemistry. 

All great things to expose young players.   ::)

Sixers are hoping nostalgia increases one of the worst attendances in the league. Might for a couple weeks, won't make the sixers any better in my opinion, not long term, & now you just waste a season since Iverson probably wouldn't be on the roster next year, but young guys and Iverson don't tend to go well together.

Hello Iverson, good bye Jrue

I agree with your assessment.  Iverson, if he gets his way as the focal point of the team, will lead the Sixers to the playoffs as first round fodder for the East's big 4.  But it will be at the expense of developing the younger players.

Horrible decision by upper management IMO.
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jemagee

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #27 on: December 02, 2009, 09:49:57 AM »
Lurker, I said, one of the reasons...there is an on court reason teams don't want him, not the only one, but there is one I believe.

and the sixers & Iverson agreed to terms, sigh

Offline rickortreat

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2009, 12:22:25 PM »
Note that the contract is not guaranteed and the Sixers can cut him at any time.  So the risk is all Allen's.

His mouth and his desires are not the Sixers problem. The Sixers want to win games and think that Allen can help them. So do I.

He will be given the opportunity to play extended minutes if his production is better than what another player could provide. Which is all any basketball player has the right to expect.

I doubt AI wants to embarrass himself by playing badly or making things worse. It is more likely for all concerned that he wants to make this thing work, to shut up all his detractors and showcase his skills for a contender. It is also in the Sixers best interests for Allen to do well.  It's hard to be a fan when your team isn't winning and the building is empty when the Sixers are home.

This isn't about AI and his mouth. This is about winning ball games.  Weak coaches and fragile ego's make the addition of a player like Iverson problematic, but nothing he says matters. The only thing that matters is what he does on the court.

Ziggy, the last thing any coach should do is coddle a player or have him dictate how the team should play. But AI expects to play and thinks he's better than the other players at his position on your team. Detroit was stupid to bring him in and not play him, and their coach got fired after AI left. Detroit still sucks 'cause their guards suck. Iverson would have helped them if they supported him, and his frustration is understandable, since Detroit lied to him about his role. Memphis was also stupid. You don't bring in a player to a team and then not play him or give him a chance to compete.

This is the same thing happening to Miller in Portland. Who's team is it anyway, Roy's or the coach's? The coach has an obligation to try to win games by putting the best available team on the floor.  I don't know enough about Portland to know who should play, but I do know that they went out and signed Miller and I know that Miller is a better guard than Blake. It doesn't make sense to bring in a free agent who started last year and then put him on your bench. Does it?

That's the only question you need to answer and them you can distinguish between a team that knows what it's trying to do, and a team with no real vision of how to be successful that's degenerated into a team being run by the players and their ego's rather than a coach. No good coach takes crap from his players. He tells him to shut up and sit down. Lots of times that's what it takes to be a good coach. Players don't see themselves objectively, and they never think losing is their fault.  Popavich never takes crap from his players and neither does Sloan or Jackson. That's why they manage to keep winning, season after season. They get rid of old players and add new ones, give them specific roles and play them based on performance. That's what good coaches do. Is McMillan doing that?

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Sixers and Iverson had a talk today.
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2009, 11:31:12 PM »
Note that the contract is not guaranteed and the Sixers can cut him at any time.  So the risk is all Allen's.

His mouth and his desires are not the Sixers problem. The Sixers want to win games and think that Allen can help them. So do I.

He will be given the opportunity to play extended minutes if his production is better than what another player could provide. Which is all any basketball player has the right to expect.

I doubt AI wants to embarrass himself by playing badly or making things worse. It is more likely for all concerned that he wants to make this thing work, to shut up all his detractors and showcase his skills for a contender. It is also in the Sixers best interests for Allen to do well.  It's hard to be a fan when your team isn't winning and the building is empty when the Sixers are home.

This isn't about AI and his mouth. This is about winning ball games.  Weak coaches and fragile ego's make the addition of a player like Iverson problematic, but nothing he says matters. The only thing that matters is what he does on the court.

Ziggy, the last thing any coach should do is coddle a player or have him dictate how the team should play. But AI expects to play and thinks he's better than the other players at his position on your team. Detroit was stupid to bring him in and not play him, and their coach got fired after AI left. Detroit still sucks 'cause their guards suck. Iverson would have helped them if they supported him, and his frustration is understandable, since Detroit lied to him about his role. Memphis was also stupid. You don't bring in a player to a team and then not play him or give him a chance to compete.

This is the same thing happening to Miller in Portland. Who's team is it anyway, Roy's or the coach's? The coach has an obligation to try to win games by putting the best available team on the floor.  I don't know enough about Portland to know who should play, but I do know that they went out and signed Miller and I know that Miller is a better guard than Blake. It doesn't make sense to bring in a free agent who started last year and then put him on your bench. Does it?

Clearly your understanding of the game at the NBA level is limited or you're such an Iverson sack hugger that you're blinded to the facts.  There is more to it than an individuals ability to produce.  Isiah Rider, Stephen Jackson, and AI are all examples of talented individuals who's mental game/attitude detracts so much from their ability to produce that it becomes "subtraction by addition".  How a player affects team chemistry, the locker room, and the practice court can be just as important as his ability to preform on the court when it's to the extreem that Iverson has become.  As a player, how can you respect a guy like Iverson?  AI doesn't put in the work of a champion in practice or in the training room, he no longer puts in the performance of a champion on the court yet he DEMANDS to be treated and coddled like a champion?  Please!  BRILLIANT move by the contendors to take a pass on Iverson.  AI got what he deserves, a ticket for a ride to nowhere.

That's the only question you need to answer and them you can distinguish between a team that knows what it's trying to do, and a team with no real vision of how to be successful that's degenerated into a team being run by the players and their ego's rather than a coach. No good coach takes crap from his players. He tells him to shut up and sit down. Lots of times that's what it takes to be a good coach. Players don't see themselves objectively, and they never think losing is their fault.  Popavich never takes crap from his players and neither does Sloan or Jackson. That's why they manage to keep winning, season after season. They get rid of old players and add new ones, give them specific roles and play them based on performance. That's what good coaches do. Is McMillan doing that?

Looks like THREE teams decided not to take Iverson's crap, could be more before the end of the year.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"