yahoo says Antonio McD will sign with SA...

[WayOutWest]

Right but they were 19 points over the course of the season....not exactly a huge amount.  What you get in offensive production and defense far makes up for that.  I know you are going to argue that a T in a critical part of a game is worth a lot more than one point but since we don't have any specific games to go by (unless you can think of some) I don't feel the need to bring it up.  That would be playing the 'Well If...' game.  I can't really think of a T he has got in a close game in a while.  He did up in Portland but not since he left to Detroit.

I disagree.  His (McDyees) rebounding is better because hes a stronger guy but as far as man to man defense, I disagree.  Sheed is no slouch when it comes to defending players.   His length really gives a number of players trouble and it helps him close out on shots better than McDyees.

Agreed Sheed is better than McDyess, the T argument is just a cop out.  McDyess is a shell of his former self, IMO he's one of those washed up guys, like Joe Smith, but I haven't really seen much of him lately.  Sheed is still a legit threat and very good defender when his head is in the game, "head in the game" is a legit argument against Sheed.  With McDyess you're going to get slow and steady, a very predictable player that fits in with the Spurs to a T.    With Sheed you will get flashes of brilliance but IMO McDyess is a better fit despite Sheed being a better player.  Maybe that's what Lurker is talking about, I sort of forget why this argument came up in the first place.

[westkoast]

Right but they were 19 points over the course of the season....not exactly a huge amount.  What you get in offensive production and defense far makes up for that.  I know you are going to argue that a T in a critical part of a game is worth a lot more than one point but since we don't have any specific games to go by (unless you can think of some) I don't feel the need to bring it up.  That would be playing the 'Well If...' game.  I can't really think of a T he has got in a close game in a while.  He did up in Portland but not since he left to Detroit.

I disagree.  His (McDyees) rebounding is better because hes a stronger guy but as far as man to man defense, I disagree.  Sheed is no slouch when it comes to defending players.   His length really gives a number of players trouble and it helps him close out on shots better than McDyees.

Agreed Sheed is better than McDyess, the T argument is just a cop out.  McDyess is a shell of his former self, IMO he's one of those washed up guys, like Joe Smith, but I haven't really seen much of him lately.  Sheed is still a legit threat and very good defender when his head is in the game, "head in the game" is a legit argument against Sheed.  With McDyess you're going to get slow and steady, a very predictable player that fits in with the Spurs to a T.    With Sheed you will get flashes of brilliance but IMO McDyess is a better fit despite Sheed being a better player.  Maybe that's what Lurker is talking about, I sort of forget why this argument came up in the first place.

The argument came up because Sheed was rumored to go to SA but bolted to Boston.  Mcdyees I believe was choice #2.  Correct me if I am wrong Lurker.

If the argument that McDyees would be the better fit personality wise, then I can't argue that.  I think that is a perfectly good reason to choose one player over the other (See Ariza vs Artest).  Not just chemistry wise but the franchise as a whole.  The Spurs organization has done a good job of bringing in players who are more blue colar types who mesh with their community.

[Lurker]

Are you guys the Indiana Pacers?  Celebrating a division title like it's a big deal.....

There are teams that celebrate that stuff?!?

The Spurs felt last year was a disappointment.  Besides LA & Boston, SA is a team that believes success = championship/deep run in playoffs.

There are teams that celebrate "deep run in playoffs", the Lakers are NOT one of them.  Lakers success = championship.

Predictable response.  Thanks WOW.

[Reality]

Predictable response.  Thanks WOW.

Give WOW another cracker.
McDs' only game vs the Flamers last year he did 14/12 in 36 minutes.

[Lurker]

  (less T's compared to Rasheed) 

I think this was overlooked a lot.  Sheed led the league in Ts last year...and went to the team that was a top 3 in giving away free FTs.

So you don't think his range and defense (which is superior to McDyees) doesn't outweight 19 technical fouls?  I'm going to hit you with the SA homer stamp on this one.

A number of those technicals based on this reputation he shed after he got to Detroit.   He's not really as big of a hot head and he is made out to be.

Doesn't matter why he got the techs; he still led the league in getting them.

As far as defense I would say McDyess' is just as good as Sheed's.  And Antonio's rebounding is better than Sheed.  Wallace has become more & more perimeter oriented.  We have perimeter shooters; the Spurs needed interior defense & rebounding.  I would rather have McDyess guard Gasol/Bynum than Wallace.

Right but they were 19 points over the course of the season....not exactly a huge amount.  What you get in offensive production and defense far makes up for that.  I know you are going to argue that a T in a critical part of a game is worth a lot more than one point but since we don't have any specific games to go by (unless you can think of some) I don't feel the need to bring it up.  That would be playing the 'Well If...' game.  I can't really think of a T he has got in a close game in a while.  He did up in Portland but not since he left to Detroit.

I disagree.  His (McDyees) rebounding is better because hes a stronger guy but as far as man to man defense, I disagree.  Sheed is no slouch when it comes to defending players.   His length really gives a number of players trouble and it helps him close out on shots better than McDyees.

See if you can find tape of Detroit last year.  McDyess usually covered the post threat.  He is stronger and in the post is the better defender.  Sheed usually covered the non-scoring big man or perimeter big.

And we haven't even addressed lockerroom chemistry.  McDyess has never had a rep as a difficult player nor do you read about off court exploits.  Sheed still can't give up the spotlight.  Should be a fun subplot in Boston this year.

[Lurker]

Right but they were 19 points over the course of the season....not exactly a huge amount.  What you get in offensive production and defense far makes up for that.  I know you are going to argue that a T in a critical part of a game is worth a lot more than one point but since we don't have any specific games to go by (unless you can think of some) I don't feel the need to bring it up.  That would be playing the 'Well If...' game.  I can't really think of a T he has got in a close game in a while.  He did up in Portland but not since he left to Detroit.

I disagree.  His (McDyees) rebounding is better because hes a stronger guy but as far as man to man defense, I disagree.  Sheed is no slouch when it comes to defending players.   His length really gives a number of players trouble and it helps him close out on shots better than McDyees.

Agreed Sheed is better than McDyess, the T argument is just a cop out.  McDyess is a shell of his former self, IMO he's one of those washed up guys, like Joe Smith, but I haven't really seen much of him lately.  Sheed is still a legit threat and very good defender when his head is in the game, "head in the game" is a legit argument against Sheed.  With McDyess you're going to get slow and steady, a very predictable player that fits in with the Spurs to a T.    With Sheed you will get flashes of brilliance but IMO McDyess is a better fit despite Sheed being a better player.  Maybe that's what Lurker is talking about, I sort of forget why this argument came up in the first place.

Check out productivity and efficiency stats for the pst two years.  The difference between McDyess and Sheed is very small.  Sheed gives a 3 point threat and an attitude threat.  One positive, one negative.  McDyess doesn't have the extra offensive threat but doesn't have any baggage either.

TENDEX rating  07/08   08/09
Wallace   15.9   15.2
McDyess  13.3   15.8


NBA efficiency  07/08   08/09
Wallace     16.0    15.5
McDyess    14.2    16.8

[westkoast]

Right but they were 19 points over the course of the season....not exactly a huge amount.  What you get in offensive production and defense far makes up for that.  I know you are going to argue that a T in a critical part of a game is worth a lot more than one point but since we don't have any specific games to go by (unless you can think of some) I don't feel the need to bring it up.  That would be playing the 'Well If...' game.  I can't really think of a T he has got in a close game in a while.  He did up in Portland but not since he left to Detroit.

I disagree.  His (McDyees) rebounding is better because hes a stronger guy but as far as man to man defense, I disagree.  Sheed is no slouch when it comes to defending players.   His length really gives a number of players trouble and it helps him close out on shots better than McDyees.

Agreed Sheed is better than McDyess, the T argument is just a cop out.  McDyess is a shell of his former self, IMO he's one of those washed up guys, like Joe Smith, but I haven't really seen much of him lately.  Sheed is still a legit threat and very good defender when his head is in the game, "head in the game" is a legit argument against Sheed.  With McDyess you're going to get slow and steady, a very predictable player that fits in with the Spurs to a T.    With Sheed you will get flashes of brilliance but IMO McDyess is a better fit despite Sheed being a better player.  Maybe that's what Lurker is talking about, I sort of forget why this argument came up in the first place.

Check out productivity and efficiency stats for the pst two years.  The difference between McDyess and Sheed is very small.  Sheed gives a 3 point threat and an attitude threat.  One positive, one negative.  McDyess doesn't have the extra offensive threat but doesn't have any baggage either.

TENDEX rating  07/08   08/09
Wallace   15.9   15.2
McDyess  13.3   15.8


NBA efficiency  07/08   08/09
Wallace     16.0    15.5
McDyess    14.2    16.8

Sheed also brings championship experience. You purposely left that out.

And it's not an 'attitude threat' because none of his teammates have talked bad about him.  In fact he is well liked by teammates.  He has an attitude with the refs and his reputation as having an attitude towards them haunts him.  You are wording it to sound like he's going to blow up chemistry.  He's never blown up chemistry, just blown up at refs.

[SPURSX3]

Right but they were 19 points over the course of the season....not exactly a huge amount.  What you get in offensive production and defense far makes up for that.  I know you are going to argue that a T in a critical part of a game is worth a lot more than one point but since we don't have any specific games to go by (unless you can think of some) I don't feel the need to bring it up.  That would be playing the 'Well If...' game.  I can't really think of a T he has got in a close game in a while.  He did up in Portland but not since he left to Detroit.

I disagree.  His (McDyees) rebounding is better because hes a stronger guy but as far as man to man defense, I disagree.  Sheed is no slouch when it comes to defending players.   His length really gives a number of players trouble and it helps him close out on shots better than McDyees.

Agreed Sheed is better than McDyess, the T argument is just a cop out.  McDyess is a shell of his former self, IMO he's one of those washed up guys, like Joe Smith, but I haven't really seen much of him lately.  Sheed is still a legit threat and very good defender when his head is in the game, "head in the game" is a legit argument against Sheed.  With McDyess you're going to get slow and steady, a very predictable player that fits in with the Spurs to a T.    With Sheed you will get flashes of brilliance but IMO McDyess is a better fit despite Sheed being a better player.  Maybe that's what Lurker is talking about, I sort of forget why this argument came up in the first place.

Check out productivity and efficiency stats for the pst two years.  The difference between McDyess and Sheed is very small.  Sheed gives a 3 point threat and an attitude threat.  One positive, one negative.  McDyess doesn't have the extra offensive threat but doesn't have any baggage either.

TENDEX rating  07/08   08/09
Wallace   15.9   15.2
McDyess  13.3   15.8


NBA efficiency  07/08   08/09
Wallace     16.0    15.5
McDyess    14.2    16.8

Sheed also brings championship experience. You purposely left that out.

And it's not an 'attitude threat' because none of his teammates have talked bad about him.  In fact he is well liked by teammates.  He has an attitude with the refs and his reputation as having an attitude towards them haunts him.  You are wording it to sound like he's going to blow up chemistry.  He's never blown up chemistry, just blown up at refs.

Well of course that is fine by you WK, any extra point in a game is fine if by the Lakers if they could take advantage of it.  With Mcdyess, there is a very slim chance at any extra points being thrown your way.  I don't count having attitude against him, I really wanted that back since we lost S. Jackson a few years back.  McDyess is going to work out fine for us.  ;-D

[westkoast]

Right but they were 19 points over the course of the season....not exactly a huge amount.  What you get in offensive production and defense far makes up for that.  I know you are going to argue that a T in a critical part of a game is worth a lot more than one point but since we don't have any specific games to go by (unless you can think of some) I don't feel the need to bring it up.  That would be playing the 'Well If...' game.  I can't really think of a T he has got in a close game in a while.  He did up in Portland but not since he left to Detroit.

I disagree.  His (McDyees) rebounding is better because hes a stronger guy but as far as man to man defense, I disagree.  Sheed is no slouch when it comes to defending players.   His length really gives a number of players trouble and it helps him close out on shots better than McDyees.

Agreed Sheed is better than McDyess, the T argument is just a cop out.  McDyess is a shell of his former self, IMO he's one of those washed up guys, like Joe Smith, but I haven't really seen much of him lately.  Sheed is still a legit threat and very good defender when his head is in the game, "head in the game" is a legit argument against Sheed.  With McDyess you're going to get slow and steady, a very predictable player that fits in with the Spurs to a T.    With Sheed you will get flashes of brilliance but IMO McDyess is a better fit despite Sheed being a better player.  Maybe that's what Lurker is talking about, I sort of forget why this argument came up in the first place.

Check out productivity and efficiency stats for the pst two years.  The difference between McDyess and Sheed is very small.  Sheed gives a 3 point threat and an attitude threat.  One positive, one negative.  McDyess doesn't have the extra offensive threat but doesn't have any baggage either.

TENDEX rating  07/08   08/09
Wallace   15.9   15.2
McDyess  13.3   15.8


NBA efficiency  07/08   08/09
Wallace     16.0    15.5
McDyess    14.2    16.8

Sheed also brings championship experience. You purposely left that out.

And it's not an 'attitude threat' because none of his teammates have talked bad about him.  In fact he is well liked by teammates.  He has an attitude with the refs and his reputation as having an attitude towards them haunts him.  You are wording it to sound like he's going to blow up chemistry.  He's never blown up chemistry, just blown up at refs.

Well of course that is fine by you WK, any extra point in a game is fine if by the Lakers if they could take advantage of it.  With Mcdyess, there is a very slim chance at any extra points being thrown your way.  I don't count having attitude against him, I really wanted that back since we lost S. Jackson a few years back.  McDyess is going to work out fine for us.  ;-D

Oh he def will work out.  I don't think he's a bad pick up.  I just don't agree he's as good as Rasheed Wallace is.

[SPURSX3]

Right but they were 19 points over the course of the season....not exactly a huge amount.  What you get in offensive production and defense far makes up for that.  I know you are going to argue that a T in a critical part of a game is worth a lot more than one point but since we don't have any specific games to go by (unless you can think of some) I don't feel the need to bring it up.  That would be playing the 'Well If...' game.  I can't really think of a T he has got in a close game in a while.  He did up in Portland but not since he left to Detroit.

I disagree.  His (McDyees) rebounding is better because hes a stronger guy but as far as man to man defense, I disagree.  Sheed is no slouch when it comes to defending players.   His length really gives a number of players trouble and it helps him close out on shots better than McDyees.

Agreed Sheed is better than McDyess, the T argument is just a cop out.  McDyess is a shell of his former self, IMO he's one of those washed up guys, like Joe Smith, but I haven't really seen much of him lately.  Sheed is still a legit threat and very good defender when his head is in the game, "head in the game" is a legit argument against Sheed.  With McDyess you're going to get slow and steady, a very predictable player that fits in with the Spurs to a T.    With Sheed you will get flashes of brilliance but IMO McDyess is a better fit despite Sheed being a better player.  Maybe that's what Lurker is talking about, I sort of forget why this argument came up in the first place.

Check out productivity and efficiency stats for the pst two years.  The difference between McDyess and Sheed is very small.  Sheed gives a 3 point threat and an attitude threat.  One positive, one negative.  McDyess doesn't have the extra offensive threat but doesn't have any baggage either.

TENDEX rating  07/08   08/09
Wallace   15.9   15.2
McDyess  13.3   15.8


NBA efficiency  07/08   08/09
Wallace     16.0    15.5
McDyess    14.2    16.8

Sheed also brings championship experience. You purposely left that out.

And it's not an 'attitude threat' because none of his teammates have talked bad about him.  In fact he is well liked by teammates.  He has an attitude with the refs and his reputation as having an attitude towards them haunts him.  You are wording it to sound like he's going to blow up chemistry.  He's never blown up chemistry, just blown up at refs.

Well of course that is fine by you WK, any extra point in a game is fine if by the Lakers if they could take advantage of it.  With Mcdyess, there is a very slim chance at any extra points being thrown your way.  I don't count having attitude against him, I really wanted that back since we lost S. Jackson a few years back.  McDyess is going to work out fine for us.  ;-D

Oh he def will work out.  I don't think he's a bad pick up.  I just don't agree he's as good as Rasheed Wallace is.

I see McDyess as less worries for our coaching staff, yes Sheed is well liked, but during a game when he starts getting rattled they would have to worry if they would have him explode or taking out of the game. 

[WayOutWest]

I see McDyess as less worries for our coaching staff, yes Sheed is well liked, but during a game when he starts getting rattled they would have to worry if they would have him explode or taking out of the game. 

The other problem with Sheed is he sometimes feels the need to "respond" durring a game.  Sometimes he takes a big shot that is very ill advised.  The Spurs already have a "response" guy in Manu, he can make the big play in more ways than just jacking up a 30 ft 3-point shot.

[WayOutWest]

Predictable response.  Thanks WOW.

Championship titles and "predictable" go hand in hand with the Lakers.