TWolves and Wizards trade

[ziggy]

I don't know, this doesn't make a lot of sense to me.  Foye and Miller for the #5 pick in a weak draft?
They must believe that Rubio is going to fall to #5.


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/basketball/nba/06/23/wizards.timberwolves.trade/index.html

Wizards agree to trade No. 5 pick to Timberwolves for Miller, Foye

The Wizards and Timberwolves have agreed in principle to a trade involving Washington's No. 5 pick in the draft, a league source told SI.com on Tuesday.

The Wizards would receive Randy Foye and Mike Miller while the Timberwolves would get the No. 5 pick, Etan Thomas, Darius Songaila and Oleksiy Pecherov.

The deal would leave Minnesota with the Nos. 5 and 6 picks in the lottery. The Timberwolves also have the 18th and 28th selections in the first round of Thursday's draft.

The trade was awaiting final approval by both sides. If consummated, the deal would enable new Timberwolves general manager David Kahn to make any number of moves leading up to the draft, whether he decides to keep the picks or package some or all of them to move up to No. 2 in an exchange with Memphis that could bring Ricky Rubio to Minnesota.

It is clear from the trade that Kahn intends to rebuild his backcourt after offering his two most talented guards to Washington -- and by no coincidence, this happens to be a draft heavy with guards, and point guards in particular.

For Washington, the trade is particularly intriguing. With the arrival of new coach Flip Saunders coinciding with the return from injury of point guard Gilbert Arenas and center Brendan Haywood, the Wizards are in win-now mode. This trade would deepen their backcourt with Miller becoming the likely starter at shooting guard alongside Arenas, and Foye serving as an excellent combo guard off the bench.

It was long rumored that the Wizards were seeking to dump salary, but this deal makes it clear they are investing to win big as the trade would keep them well above the luxury-tax threshold -- but with a much stronger team. They'd go into next season with firepower at all positions, in addition to the bench scoring they'd receive from Foye, swingman Nick Young and second-year big man JaVale McGee.

Miller's $9 million salary will expire next season, while Foye (who makes $3.6 million next season) is entering his fourth year and will be a restricted free agent in 2010.

[Lurker]

IMO Rubio won't drop past the Kings at 4 if he drops that far.  Most mock drafts have him going 3rd to OKC.

Here is Chad Ford's ESPN thoughts...

The Timberwolves have reached a deal for this pick, as noted above, and now have the No. 5 and No. 6 pick. They're hoping to grab two of these three players: Ricky Rubio, Hasheem Thabeet and Tyreke Evans. But we have all three of those players off the board. In that case, they're willing to settle for James Harden and Stephen Curry. Then again, to get what it wants, Minnesota may be ready to make further moves. While the Wolves say they won't trade both 5 and 6 to move up to No. 2, they might be willing to move 5 and 18 to move up to 2 or 3 in the draft.

[westkoast]

Has to be because of Miller's expiring contract AND a chance to move up in the draft.  In that order.  Foye is just in the trade so the numbers are right.  The Wolves are going into full blown rebuilding mode.  New GM wants to gut the team and he needs picks/money to rebuild.  I don't know if it was a great idea but it is starting the process out the gate. 

Waiting on jn's take on it from the on the court side.  jn does losing Miller really hurt the squad all that much? 

[ziggy]

Has to be because of Miller's expiring contract AND a chance to move up in the draft.  In that order.  Foye is just in the trade so the numbers are right.  The Wolves are going into full blown rebuilding mode.  New GM wants to gut the team and he needs picks/money to rebuild.  I don't know if it was a great idea but it is starting the process out the gate. 

Waiting on jn's take on it from the on the court side.  jn does losing Miller really hurt the squad all that much? 

I think this draft will be defined by 3 players
Blake Griffen
Ricky Rubio
Tyreke Evans

with a 4th player close to joining that group in James Harden

Beyond that I don't see any of the PG as being much better than Randy Foye, and none of the wing players as better than Mike Miller in terms of overall contribution.  Thabeet will be Ok, perhaps a bit better than Joel Przybilla/Sam Dalambert/Theo Ratliff, but then again maybe not.

In terms of improving their team for next year, well picking 5 & 6 and give Foye and Miller isn't going to do it, unless they get lucky and both Evans and Harden slip.

This is clearly a move by Kahn to move on from the McHale era, and I can understand that.  At the same time Minny was making a move to becoming a .500 team when Al Jefferson went down.  I think every year you try to be better than you were the year before, so I question this move for that reason.

Now if they can get to #2 by trading the #5 or #6 and the #18, and take back a salary, then getting Rubio and either Harden or Evans for Foye and Miller is a risk worth taking.

[jn]

It's a bit hard to know what to think at this point, especially since we don't have a coach.  Seems like they might want to settle that before the draft so that everyone is on the sam page.   

As far as the available players I'm a fan (to varying degrees) of Evans, Curry, Flynn and Harden.  It seems everyone has the same opinion of Rubio, could be a major star or could be a no defense kid who gets pushed around for 5 years before he toughens up washes out.  As I've made abundantly clear, I'm not a fan of Thabeet.   

I'm really not sure what advantage could be gained by more trades to move up even further.  I'm not sure anyone outside Griffin is worth moving up for.

Losing Miller means losing a solid veteran.  On the other hand his outside shooting wasn't particularly good last year and that was the main reason the Wolves acquired him.   Foye started to come on but I think this trade was ideal for him.  I suspect Flip will do for him exactly the same thing that he did for Billups.  That is, stop messing around with the combo guard matter and make him a true point guard.   

[ziggy]

It's a bit hard to know what to think at this point, especially since we don't have a coach.  Seems like they might want to settle that before the draft so that everyone is on the sam page.   

As far as the available players I'm a fan (to varying degrees) of Evans, Curry, Flynn and Harden.  It seems everyone has the same opinion of Rubio, could be a major star or could be a no defense kid who gets pushed around for 5 years before he toughens up washes out.  As I've made abundantly clear, I'm not a fan of Thabeet.   

I'm really not sure what advantage could be gained by more trades to move up even further.  I'm not sure anyone outside Griffin is worth moving up for.

Losing Miller means losing a solid veteran.  On the other hand his outside shooting wasn't particularly good last year and that was the main reason the Wolves acquired him.   Foye started to come on but I think this trade was ideal for him.  I suspect Flip will do for him exactly the same thing that he did for Billups.  That is, stop messing around with the combo guard matter and make him a true point guard.   

Interesting perspective on Foye.  Hadn't thought of it in those terms.  I do believe that Washington will be a solid eastern team if they get everyone healthy. 

I had a chance to watch Rubio a few times plus the Olympics.  I watched him, because he was on the same Spanish team as Rudy Fernandez, and I was watching Fernandez.  I was very impressed with him as a 17 year old.  He was a better defender than I expected, and he was a tremendous passer.  I would look at him as a Jason Kidd type.  Not as strong, nor as good a rebounder, a marginal shooter, but a great passer, great in a running game, and a better than average defender.

I am with you on Thabeet, he doesn't impress me.  Above I said this draft would be defined by 3-4 guys.  I would add that there are 3 other players that I believe could be solid pro's in the right situation.
Stephon Curry
DaJuan Blair
Eric Maynor

[jn]

I liked what I saw of Blair as well, though I read somewhere recently that some injury problems have cropped up and scared off some teams. 

I hadn't thought about Maynor.  Virginia Commonwealth, correct?

[Wolverine]

I'm completely with you guys on Thabeet.  He's a major stiff.  Saw him play a few times in college, and he did absolutely nothing to impress me.  NO offensive game to speak of; marginal rebounder (disappointing considering his size); and his shot-blocking is a by-product of his heighth.

He'll be a bust with the second overall pick.  Fitting, I suppose, since Memphis is selecting there. 

[ziggy]

I liked what I saw of Blair as well, though I read somewhere recently that some injury problems have cropped up and scared off some teams. 

I hadn't thought about Maynor.  Virginia Commonwealth, correct?

Yes Maynor is from VCU.

From what I understand Portland is interested in Blair.  He is definitely a banger, and a rebounder.  He will be a solid back up in the NBA I think.

[Joe Vancil]

Can't believe that no one is talking about the Wizards.  A healthy Arenas and Haywood elevate the team, and they just got Foye and Miller for spare parts.  An Arenas-Foye backcourt will be awfully hard to defend, and I like the Butler/Jamison combo at the forwards, and now you've got Miller adding to that. 

Of course, you've still got Blatsche/Haywood at center, which means you're not really all that good at rebounding.

[Lurker]

Can't believe that no one is talking about the Wizards.  A healthy Arenas and Haywood elevate the team, and they just got Foye and Miller for spare parts.  An Arenas-Foye backcourt will be awfully hard to defend, and I like the Butler/Jamison combo at the forwards, and now you've got Miller adding to that. 

Of course, you've still got Blatsche/Haywood at center, which means you're not really all that good at rebounding.

And your lock down defender is ?

[Joe Vancil]

Butler's no slouch....

[Skandery]

And your lock down defender is?

Caron Butler!

[Lurker]

And your lock down defender is?

Caron Butler!

I would go with Joe's words..not a slouch.  But I don't see him as a lock down defender.  And without better team defenders on the floor with him; his talents are wasted.

[westkoast]

And your lock down defender is?

Caron Butler!

I would go with Joe's words..not a slouch.  But I don't see him as a lock down defender.  And without better team defenders on the floor with him; his talents are wasted.

Far from a lock down defender because he, like most players, get a lot more out of scoring the basketball.  He would rather play solid defense and have energy to score than he would being a lock down type guy.  Which to be honest is a much better use of his talent.  He is an above average offensive player.