What do the Spurs do with Manu?

[WayOutWest]

Manu's been hurt that last two playoffs, this year's injury probably upset the Spurs FO.

"In San Antonio they have not sat down with me to discuss an extension. I have a year to go on my current contract. I do not know what they want to do. I will wait and will continue to play. Contract talks were suspended after the Olympics," - Manu Ginobili

So what will the Spurs do? 

Let him play out his last year and decide after?
Trade him?
Sign him to an extension?

I put them in order of likelyhood to happen IMO.

[westkoast]

Of course contract talks were suspended after the Olympics.  This is a business.  As classy as the Spurs organization is they SHOULD have suspended talks until they decided what they wanted to do on their side.  I don't think it's unreasonable for the Spurs to debate if they want to re-sign him.  They do need to go after some younger talent and Manu still is a talented player they could use as trade incentive. 

I'd trade him before the end of the year because he can just as easily leave to get money somewhere else at the end.  If he has a typical Manu year (not like the last one) he can sign to a large number of teams.

[WayOutWest]

Of course contract talks were suspended after the Olympics.  This is a business.  As classy as the Spurs organization is they SHOULD have suspended talks until they decided what they wanted to do on their side.  I don't think it's unreasonable for the Spurs to debate if they want to re-sign him.  They do need to go after some younger talent and Manu still is a talented player they could use as trade incentive. 

I'd trade him before the end of the year because he can just as easily leave to get money somewhere else at the end.  If he has a typical Manu year (not like the last one) he can sign to a large number of teams.

But every team in the league, except maybe the Grizz  , can read a birth certificate and they must know that Manu is on the downside of his career.  I don't think he'll get offered big money, unless there is a team out there that is going for an "all-in" title run and need immediate help.  IMO the Spurs will keep Manu a few more years at a discounted price.

[westkoast]

Of course contract talks were suspended after the Olympics.  This is a business.  As classy as the Spurs organization is they SHOULD have suspended talks until they decided what they wanted to do on their side.  I don't think it's unreasonable for the Spurs to debate if they want to re-sign him.  They do need to go after some younger talent and Manu still is a talented player they could use as trade incentive. 

I'd trade him before the end of the year because he can just as easily leave to get money somewhere else at the end.  If he has a typical Manu year (not like the last one) he can sign to a large number of teams.

But every team in the league, except maybe the Grizz  , can read a birth certificate and they must know that Manu is on the downside of his career.  I don't think he'll get offered big money, unless there is a team out there that is going for an "all-in" title run and need immediate help.  IMO the Spurs will keep Manu a few more years at a discounted price.

He's 31 and had he not pushed it in the summer he might be fully healed enough to contribute for another crack this next season.  Instead he pushed it and is a big ? coming up.  With that said I still think a team would give him more than the mid-level exception after this year.  You have to take into mind even though he is older and the Spurs have played more games than most teams, he still comes off the bench.  He doesn't have as many miles as you would assume.

[WayOutWest]

He's 31 and had he not pushed it in the summer he might be fully healed enough to contribute for another crack this next season.  Instead he pushed it and is a big ? coming up.  With that said I still think a team would give him more than the mid-level exception after this year.  You have to take into mind even though he is older and the Spurs have played more games than most teams, he still comes off the bench.  He doesn't have as many miles as you would assume.

The other plus for Manu is that he's more of a "skills" player than most other guys at his position.  Manu does not rely on his athletic ability to play his game, much like Steve Nash.  Barring injuries, I can see him playing at least another 4 years.

[Lurker]

http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/spurs/Money_talks_and_Manu_stays.html

From the local paper...

Buck Harvey - Buck Harvey A team put in a call to the Spurs last season with a legitimate offer for Manu Ginobili.

?Helluva player for a helluva player,? is the way Gregg Popovich describes the proposal now.

Popovich's answer then is the same as it is now, even after Ginobili ended another season with a limp. Popovich has always loved the guy, and he knows a healthy Ginobili can't be replaced.

But there's another reason Ginobili will be a Spur as long as he is upright.

He's also a helluva draw at the box office.

That the Spurs would even consider trading Ginobili seemed impossible a year ago. Ginobili used the same word this week to describe his sense of that time.

But then Ginobili collapsed in Beijing, and the Spurs chose to shelve any contract-extension discussions. When he felt pain before the All-Star break, then later went out for the rest of the season, there was more doubt.

A rumor surfaced this month that the Wizards called the Spurs with an offer for him, and maybe all of this made Ginobili wonder if the ground had shifted. Asked by the Argentine press this week whether he thought he could be traded, he said ?impossible? had lost a few letters.

?Today I believe there is a chance it could happen,? he said.

There's always a chance. Popovich said that. ?People get in trouble when they say never,? Popovich said Wednesday.

If somebody makes what Popovich calls ?a stupid offer,? then who knows?

?But Manu Ginobili is someone I cannot envision trading,? Popovich continued. ?He has been such a huge part of our heart and soul; people like that are hard to come by. You don't even think about trading somebody like that. I can't imagine a scenario where he would be traded.?

As Popovich put it, ?He fits us.? He closes games as few can, and a moment in the Spike Lee documentary, ?Kobe Doin' Work,? underlines that. Then, the Lakers are about to play the Spurs, and the camera focuses on Ginobili, who was unable to play that night because of an injury.

?That's a bad boy, right there,? Bryant said in the film. ?I have so much respect for his game.?

Ginobili isn't perfect. Neither is Bryant, as his fourth-quarter collapse on Tuesday suggests.

But Ginobili wins games as few have, and an example came from an ESPN columnist who had a great idea. He called the Elias Sports Bureau and asked for the career winning percentages of 14 players, from Russell to Jordan to Magic.

There are variables, certainly, such as who was lucky enough to play with which team in which years. Still, Larry Bird was first. Ginobili second.

So the reasons to keep Ginobili are overwhelming: He gives the Spurs their best chance to win, and his contract is both reasonable and short.

But just as critical is the business of entertainment. Trading a popular player always has been dicey, and now it's marketing suicide. In this economic climate, with Plenty of Good Seats Available, no team wants to give its fans a reason to stay home.

The Phoenix Suns, for example, are willing to trade everyone but Steve Nash. ?You have to care about these things now,? said one in the Suns organization.

The Spurs have to care about more. Nash might help another team, but Ginobili, if healthy, might turn another franchise into a contender.

Imagine the backlash if Ginobili took, say, the Wizards deep into the playoffs. It would be Scola times 10.

So the Spurs will happily stick with Ginobili. And if he shows even a glimmer of his old self next season, the Spurs will want to sign him to yet another contract.

Talent and box-office appeal are a helluva combination.


bharvey@express-news.net

And to highlight something for those RealSpurs...

?That's a bad boy, right there,? Bryant said in the film. ?I have so much respect for his game.?

[SPURSX3]

I had a feeling the trade talks would pop up this summer.  I don't want to see Manu go, but it is a business, I think if the Spurs get desperate enough they would pull the trigger, I think they are waiting for draft day to see what happens, if we end up with nothing I believe will start shopping Manu around.

[westkoast]

Lurker...

Good article mos def but it leaves me thinking this...

If you were going to trade him it has to be now and not a year from now if the Spurs were really to go after someone else. 

Do you think people in SA would really stop showing up to games if Manu left and they continued to win?  Obviously he is a key player and I know he is loved in Texas but if they landed a quality player in exchange would the seats not get filled?  Seems like a very loyal bunch out there.  Though when fans get use to winning things do change over time.....

[WayOutWest]

A team put in a call to the Spurs last season with a legitimate offer for Manu Ginobili.

Any real fans of the Spurs have any idea what the offer for Manu was last year?

What do you guys think the offer from the Wiz this year might be?  Arenas IMO would not be a legit offer because of his health issue and ludacris contract.  Butler is not a legit offer for Manu IMO.  My fav FNBA SF/PF Jamison maybe? 

Jamison would be an excellent addition IMO, he's athletic, good rebounder, can finish at the rim, and a solid outside shooter to compliment TD's inside game.  The problem is he is not a closer, that would force the Spurs to completely rely on Parker to close out games and handle the critical "give him the ball and get out of the way" possesions that Manu excels at in the playoffs.

[WayOutWest]

Lurker...

Good article mos def but it leaves me thinking this...

If you were going to trade him it has to be now and not a year from now if the Spurs were really to go after someone else. 

Do you think people in SA would really stop showing up to games if Manu left and they continued to win?  Obviously he is a key player and I know he is loved in Texas but if they landed a quality player in exchange would the seats not get filled?  Seems like a very loyal bunch out there.  Though when fans get use to winning things do change over time.....

IMO trading Manu would be like trading Worthy in the 80's.  Proven guy that was a fan favorite. 

[westkoast]

A team put in a call to the Spurs last season with a legitimate offer for Manu Ginobili.

Any real fans of the Spurs have any idea what the offer for Manu was last year?

What do you guys think the offer from the Wiz this year might be?  Arenas IMO would not be a legit offer because of his health issue and ludacris contract.  Butler is not a legit offer for Manu IMO.  My fav FNBA SF/PF Jamison maybe? 

Jamison would be an excellent addition IMO, he's athletic, good rebounder, can finish at the rim, and a solid outside shooter to compliment TD's inside game.  The problem is he is not a closer, that would force the Spurs to completely rely on Parker to close out games and handle the critical "give him the ball and get out of the way" possesions that Manu excels at in the playoffs.

And that lies the problem....

Who can finish quite like he can?  Everyone I can name who finishes as good or better than Manu is NOT going to be traded or is locked up in a contract.  Even if his foot is still bad he can shoot a basketball.  There are hundreds of healthy players in this league who don't have the nerves, desire, or confidence to take those last second shots.

Again though, do the Spurs keep Manu around until he retires or do they deal him now *IF* a talented young player that fit their system was offered up?

[Lurker]

A team put in a call to the Spurs last season with a legitimate offer for Manu Ginobili.

Any real fans of the Spurs have any idea what the offer for Manu was last year?

What do you guys think the offer from the Wiz this year might be?  Arenas IMO would not be a legit offer because of his health issue and ludacris contract.  Butler is not a legit offer for Manu IMO.  My fav FNBA SF/PF Jamison maybe? 

Jamison would be an excellent addition IMO, he's athletic, good rebounder, can finish at the rim, and a solid outside shooter to compliment TD's inside game.  The problem is he is not a closer, that would force the Spurs to completely rely on Parker to close out games and handle the critical "give him the ball and get out of the way" possesions that Manu excels at in the playoffs.

And that lies the problem....

Who can finish quite like he can?  Everyone I can name who finishes as good or better than Manu is NOT going to be traded or is locked up in a contract.  Even if his foot is still bad he can shoot a basketball.  There are hundreds of healthy players in this league who don't have the nerves, desire, or confidence to take those last second shots.

Again though, do the Spurs keep Manu around until he retires or do they deal him now *IF* a talented young player that fit their system was offered up?

I would say that when healthy Manu is as good a finisher as there is in the NBA.  The key is healthy which has been a problem for the past couple years.  As far as age he is 1 year older than Kobe...who according to some Laker fans can play another 5-6 years.  So really the key is how healthy are his ankles?

IMO the Spurs need to wait & see how Manu is doing.  He was just rounding into top shape when his ankle went bad...and it is the opposite ankle from the injury during the olympics.  If he shows no pain and can perform at his normal controlled-manic level then you extend/re-sign him.  And until he proves that it will be hard to get value for him in trade. 

As far as losing him for nothing...I really doubt that happens.  Next year is the Year of the Free Agent according to those in the know.  And while Manu is a top player he isn't in the James/Wade/Bosh group.  The Spurs will also hold his bird rights which will allow them to offer more money than anyone else.  Then there is the whole economic downturn and projected lower revenues which leads to lower salary cap.  If Manu proves he is back to health and seriously wants to leave SA; I would guess it will be done in a sign & trade.

From the fans point of view; we would miss Manu.  But even Gervin was traded when he thought he could still play and was bigger than the team.  And today he still has a "little" bit of popularity in SA.   

[westkoast]

I would say that when healthy Manu is as good a finisher as there is in the NBA.  The key is healthy which has been a problem for the past couple years.  As far as age he is 1 year older than Kobe...who according to some Laker fans can play another 5-6 years.  So really the key is how healthy are his ankles?

I was thinking the only people who I see as good or better than Manu are Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony (Zig had a stat supporting this a while ago), and Ray Allen.

Kobe is a year older than Manu but is in better shape and has not had 2 years of injury problems.  I think that is why some Laker fans say he can play another 5 years and are asking if Manu is on his way out.  I think W.O.W would agree Kobe is towards the second half/ the end of his career as well.  4-5 years is not a very long time.

IMO the Spurs need to wait & see how Manu is doing.  He was just rounding into top shape when his ankle went bad...and it is the opposite ankle from the injury during the olympics.  If he shows no pain and can perform at his normal controlled-manic level then you extend/re-sign him.  And until he proves that it will be hard to get value for him in trade. 

You extend him in hopes of getting a better player or do you ride him till its glue factory time?  Reason I ask is while the Spurs have a great core (duh) how many more years are they going to wait before they seriously take the steps to rebuild?  I don't see the Spurs getting in on the Summer of FAs next year deal.

As far as losing him for nothing...I really doubt that happens.  Next year is the Year of the Free Agent according to those in the know.  And while Manu is a top player he isn't in the James/Wade/Bosh group.  The Spurs will also hold his bird rights which will allow them to offer more money than anyone else.  Then there is the whole economic downturn and projected lower revenues which leads to lower salary cap.  If Manu proves he is back to health and seriously wants to leave SA; I would guess it will be done in a sign & trade.

I don't really know enough about him to say if he would bolt or not.  I am just kind of going off the attitude of players and agents who always tell players at this stage to get the paycheck since those dollars are not going to come back around after.

The Spurs might not want to offer him more money than anyone else as you know.  He could get a huge offer from someone trying their hardest to piece together a championship.  What if the Cavs owner went after him?  If you want a shooter who will actually shoot well the entire playoff run......

From the fans point of view; we would miss Manu.  But even Gervin was traded when he thought he could still play and was bigger than the team.  And today he still has a "little" bit of popularity in SA.   

That's kind of my point.  Fans seem pretty loyal in SA and I don't see them leaving the stands if Manu gets traded.

[WayOutWest]

IMO the Spurs need to wait & see how Manu is doing.  He was just rounding into top shape when his ankle went bad...and it is the opposite ankle from the injury during the olympics.  If he shows no pain and can perform at his normal controlled-manic level then you extend/re-sign him.  And until he proves that it will be hard to get value for him in trade. 

You're in a catch-22, if he doesn't get back to form then you will not get anything for him so you might as well keep him.  If he recovers then you're going to want to keep him anyway.  So I really don't see Manu going anywhere unless some other team makes SA an offer they can't refuse.

I give Manu greif for being "dramatic", but I do respect his game.  I respect his game more than most NBA players because Manu is in the mold of Nash and Bird, they don't have half the physical/athletic gifts that most NBA players have but they still manage to be superior basketball players because of their brains, heart, nerves, and skils.  IMO Manu retires a Spur, as does TD, the only big three guy that may not is Parker.

[westkoast]

IMO the Spurs need to wait & see how Manu is doing.  He was just rounding into top shape when his ankle went bad...and it is the opposite ankle from the injury during the olympics.  If he shows no pain and can perform at his normal controlled-manic level then you extend/re-sign him.  And until he proves that it will be hard to get value for him in trade. 

You're in a catch-22, if he doesn't get back to form then you will not get anything for him so you might as well keep him.  If he recovers then you're going to want to keep him anyway.  So I really don't see Manu going anywhere unless some other team makes SA an offer they can't refuse.

I give Manu greif for being "dramatic", but I do respect his game.  I respect his game more than most NBA players because Manu is in the mold of Nash and Bird, they don't have half the physical/athletic gifts that most NBA players have but they still manage to be superior basketball players because of their brains, heart, nerves, and skils.  IMO Manu retires a Spur, as does TD, the only big three guy that may not is Parker.

I will say this, it would be nice to see a franchise be loyal to a player like Manu Ginobilli.  He has been a class act, a key member of 3 titles, and does what his coach asks on the court every single night.  After thinking about it, bad ankle or not, they should extend him.  On top of your catch 22 comment I think it's great when a player can finish his entire career up with one franchise.  That rarely happens anymore with all-star talent it seems.