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Author Topic: New Orleans.  (Read 3153 times)

Offline jn

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New Orleans.
« on: April 30, 2009, 10:22:10 AM »
I didn't see much of the Nuggets/Hornets and that's probably a good thing. NO looks like a team that could absolutely implode.   I mean, a 58 point loss at HOME?!?!?   

The Hornets still have a couple of excellent building blocks in Paul and West but there are a lot of question marks after that.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2009, 10:29:04 AM »
As long as you have  Chris Paul you have enough to build around.  The problem is they need to rebuild and I have a feeling they will be looking for a new coach at the same time.  Never a good combo if you plan on winning in the next few seasons.

How much blame do you guys think  a coach should take for a 58 point loss at home (playoff or otherwise)???  Clearly the shlacking was due to a lack of focus and motivation to play hard.  Two things it is up to the coaching staff to handle.

Did you guys also see the rumor that they are in talks with Detroit to get Prince and Hamilton?  Prince I see trading for *IF* Tyson Chandler is not apart of this deal.  Having those two guys on the defensive end should improve that squad a good amount.

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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2009, 10:35:33 AM »
Quote from: jn on April 30, 2009, 10:22:10 AM
I didn't see much of the Nuggets/Hornets and that's probably a good thing. NO looks like a team that could absolutely implode.   I mean, a 58 point loss at HOME?!?!?   

The Hornets still have a couple of excellent building blocks in Paul and West but there are a lot of question marks after that.

The game was actually tied at 62 late in the 3rd but then the Nuggets exploded.  They drove to the hoop and there was nobody to contest shots, stupid unforced turnovers and West was on the bench.

They are going to need some upgrades, Peja is a bit broken down, nobody in the middle and a useless bench.  Depending on how CP3 feels about his coach, they may dump Byron.  If the Lakers win a title and allow PJ to ride off into the sunset with one more ring than Red, then I would welcome B with open arms.
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Offline ziggy

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2009, 10:44:23 AM »
Quote from: westkoast on April 30, 2009, 10:29:04 AM
How much blame do you guys think  a coach should take for a 58 point loss at home (playoff or otherwise)???  Clearly the shlacking was due to a lack of focus and motivation to play hard.  Two things it is up to the coaching staff to handle.

The coach should take virtually no blame for a 58 point loss.  That is all on the players.  If they are that willing to give up, there is virtually nothing a coach can do to change that.
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Offline JoMal

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #4 on: April 30, 2009, 10:51:58 AM »
While a 58 point loss at home is certainly a team effort, do any of you really believe that a Jerry Sloan or a Greg Popovich would not have done something to stir up his troops during a shallacking like that?

Players who allow that to happen on their home court have no pride nor toughness. A coach that lets it happen without severe consequences has no job.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #5 on: April 30, 2009, 12:26:39 PM »
Quote from: ziggy on April 30, 2009, 10:44:23 AM
Quote from: westkoast on April 30, 2009, 10:29:04 AM
How much blame do you guys think  a coach should take for a 58 point loss at home (playoff or otherwise)???  Clearly the shlacking was due to a lack of focus and motivation to play hard.  Two things it is up to the coaching staff to handle.

The coach should take virtually no blame for a 58 point loss.  That is all on the players.  If they are that willing to give up, there is virtually nothing a coach can do to change that.

Good point but if the players give up on a coach...essentially doesn't that mean he needs to go?  He no longer can reach them if that is the case.

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Offline rickortreat

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #6 on: April 30, 2009, 12:52:53 PM »
Sorry, but if you've been laying NBA basksetball all season, and then you lie down in a playoff game you suck as a player. How can you have any self-respect or pride after being blown out? How can you call yourself a ballplayer and then do nothing to help your team?


B. Scott never backed down from anything, and I'm sure he tried to impress that on his players.

I don't get to see enough of them to understand what's going on, but I have a hard time believing Scott could have done something else to motivate these players. When there's a break-down like this, there a lot that's wrong with that team in spite of what they did during the season.

Teams can get away with a lot during the regular season, sometimes you don't even see the flaws until they play another good team that can find that flaw and take advantage of it.  It's pretty clear from the 4-1 results that Denver is a much better team than N.O.  CP3 is a great talent, but then again so is Billups.
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Offline westkoast

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #7 on: April 30, 2009, 01:31:10 PM »
Rick/Ziggy...don't forget that there was chatter around the league that Chris Paul and David West had been tunning out Byron Scott all the way back in December.  Looks like maybe it was more than a rumor?

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Offline Lurker

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #8 on: April 30, 2009, 02:30:55 PM »
Quote from: westkoast on April 30, 2009, 01:31:10 PM
Rick/Ziggy...don't forget that there was chatter around the league that Chris Paul and David West had been tunning out Byron Scott all the way back in December.  Looks like maybe it was more than a rumor?



Didn't Scott have the same problem in Jersey?  After a few years the players just started to tune him out.
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #9 on: April 30, 2009, 03:38:06 PM »
That is a very good point.  Players do stop listening to the coach, and the coach gets stuck, because he doesn't have other talented players to go to.

Some coaches aren't good at connecting with their players, but I wouldn't think an ex player like Scott would have that problem. 

The ego's of some players make them very difficult to coach. I doubt that Vince Carter or Jason Kidd listened to Byron in NJ, not because they knew any better, but because they're jerks.  I mean these guys make absurd amounts of money to play a game, but they're too big to let someone give them directions.

Maybe the Hornets are the same way.

It's not like NJ got better after Scott left. If I was a coach I wouldn't want to take over in NO. Not after seeing how those players performed. But it would be hard to turn down an offer if I were out of work too.
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Offline msc

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2009, 03:39:42 PM »
There are definitely chemistry problems in NO.  Whether it has something to do with Chandler being traded, then having to come back after the trade fell through, or Byron has lost the attention and respect of his players, or some other issue we don't know about.  I get that Peja has been horrible, Posey's not 100%, their bench is weak and Jennero Pargo, who was a huge spark plug off of them last year, is no longer on the squad, but a team with CP3 and David West shouldn't have been spanked as bad as they were.  Although Denver is looking pretty darn tough, but it's hard to say if Denver is just that good or if NO is just that bad.  

Regardless, I see Byron getting the axe.  I don't think it's the right decision, but that seems to be the formula these days when a team under performs.  I've always loved B. Scott.  I know he has a hard-assed, old-school coaching approach much like his old coach and mentor, Pat Riley, but somehow he seems to lose his players.  Some coaches can be hard-assed and still garner the love and respect of their players ... B. Scott hasn't demonstrated the ability to do this.  
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Offline jn

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2009, 04:05:48 PM »
Lots of good posts here.  If I remember correctly it wasn't neccessarily a team wide problem in NJ, it was a JASON KIDD problem in NJ.  I could be wrong but I think that was the main issue.

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Offline Lurker

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2009, 04:21:28 PM »
Quote from: jn on April 30, 2009, 04:05:48 PM
Lots of good posts here.  If I remember correctly it wasn't neccessarily a team wide problem in NJ, it was a JASON KIDD problem in NJ.  I could be wrong but I think that was the main issue.



I wasn't sure if it was just Kidd or not but I think you are right.  But there is a pattern starting where after a couple years Scott loses his team leader (and PG). 
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Offline westkoast

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2009, 05:19:22 PM »
Quote from: jn on April 30, 2009, 04:05:48 PM
Lots of good posts here.  If I remember correctly it wasn't neccessarily a team wide problem in NJ, it was a JASON KIDD problem in NJ.  I could be wrong but I think that was the main issue.



From what I remember Kidd wanted to place a lot of blame on Scott for them not winning a title....

Failing to realize that they just went up against teams MUCH more talented than they were (Lakers/Spurs)

How can you compare a Todd McColluch (spelling?) and a Kenyon Martin to Shaq and Duncan?  Richard Jefferson to Kobe or Manu?
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: New Orleans.
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2009, 06:06:08 PM »
Larry Brown, one of the most successful coaches in the league at building teams, ends up wearing out his welcome and ends up getting tuned out by his players.

Although Larry says some things that annoyed me, I think he is a great coach with a good understanding of what it takes to win.

He went to Detroit and orchestrated one trade and got them a Championship.  Then, the team started to tune him out (ungrateful bastards!) NOTE: DETROIT HASN'T WON ANYTHING SINCE!

When a team tunes out it's coach, what does the ownership do?

You can:

 A. Fire the Coach and hire a new one.

 B. Get rid of the disgruntled talent and try to get some new blood, alienating fans who got attached to a specific player, and possible set your program back a few years in terms of competing for a championship.

It's easier to get rid of the coach, even if it isn't the right move.
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