Author Topic: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?  (Read 12713 times)

Offline westkoast

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2008, 11:42:47 AM »

Stay calm Spurs Sheep.  For I will lead you.  Along with Michael Finleys lockdown D.

I'm sorry.  I thought this was a discussion between intelligent basketball followers.  But just to placate the thought challenged on this board...

It is obviously the fact that Horry retired and Barry went to Houston that has caused the complete collapse of the defense.  All hail the great (SARCASM) mind of Reality.

Why is it so bad really though? Havent seen them yet.
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jemagee

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2008, 11:43:22 AM »
Well, no manu and poor defense should do it don't you think?



Offline Reality

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2008, 11:43:39 AM »
Cousin Luker,
Twisty like your relative eh.

Bonner and Fabs combined for 40 minutes, 2 pts, about 5 boards and no FTAs vs MN.

Thats your Greg Poppycocks Bonner and Fabs.

Vs Scola, any other FA he's chased off, yes Barrdog, shoot even Gist at this point.

Clueless indeed.  ;)

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2008, 11:58:32 AM »
Cousin Luker,
Twisty like your relative eh.

Bonner and Fabs combined for 40 minutes, 2 pts, about 5 boards and no FTAs vs MN.

Thats your Greg Poppycocks Bonner and Fabs.

Vs Scola, any other FA he's chased off, yes Barrdog, shoot even Gist at this point.

Clueless indeed.  ;)

You really think you're making a good point.  How sad.  :-[ 
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

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"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

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jemagee

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2008, 12:00:40 PM »
Quote
You really think you're making a good point.  How sad.

There's a whole in your logic right there - big one - it involves the use of the word think as applied to the person you are referring to.

Offline SPURSX3

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2008, 12:07:24 PM »
Cousin Luker,
Twisty like your relative eh.

Bonner and Fabs combined for 40 minutes, 2 pts, about 5 boards and no FTAs vs MN.

Thats your Greg Poppycocks Bonner and Fabs.

Vs Scola, any other FA he's chased off, yes Barrdog, shoot even Gist at this point.

Clueless indeed.  ;)

Reality is like Yoda....but more gay.... ;)
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #21 on: November 06, 2008, 12:22:45 PM »
There's a whole in your logic right there - big one - it involves the use of the word think as applied to the person you are referring to.

A "whole" what?  Whole "lotta" wisdom/sarcasm/bs?  I'm going with bs.  ;D
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

jemagee

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #22 on: November 06, 2008, 12:23:40 PM »
argle fragle - too early in the morning

remember boys and girls - hot topic is not punk rock

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #23 on: November 06, 2008, 12:25:05 PM »
Cousin Luker,
Twisty like your relative eh.

Bonner and Fabs combined for 40 minutes, 2 pts, about 5 boards and no FTAs vs MN.

Thats your Greg Poppycocks Bonner and Fabs.

Vs Scola, any other FA he's chased off, yes Barrdog, shoot even Gist at this point.

Clueless indeed.  ;)

Reality is like Yoda....but more gay.... ;)

I agree, when it comes to gay, Reality is a master amoung masters.  :D

Hot for verga Reality is.  ;D
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Lurker

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2008, 01:02:54 PM »

Why is it so bad really though? Havent seen them yet.

There are two basic reasons: rebounding and rotations.

The Spurs have been one of the top defensive rebounding teams for the past decade.  They generally have limited teams to an one & done offense.  And they force teams to use the majority of the shot clock running their offense to even get off a halfway decent shot (the boring play that the common fan sees).  They take away the offense's comfort zones and make them work for their points.  This year they are getting killed on the glass...they are weaker than normal on the offensive boards.  And teams are pounding their offensive glass with great success...for example, at the end of regulation last night the Wolves had outscored the Spurs 23-0 on second chance points.

The second area of concern is defensive rotations.  The whole team...both young and old...seems to be having communication problems and mental lapses.  They seem to hestitate that split second before rotating.  Or two players follow the same cutter leaving another player open.  Teams are getting more uncontested shots than I have seen for a Spurs opponent in a long time.  There are some reasons (excuses?) for this.  The new guys (Mason, Hill) are still learning the defense.  Injuries has forced Pop to give older vets (Thomas, Finley) more minutes than he would otherwise.

Also contributing to the overall record is Pop's tendency to use November & December as experimental months.  He will play different combinations on the floor.  He uses a deeper bench to see who can produce and who needs more practice time.  He will let the team play through different situations ala Phil to see how they react.  Pop will use these early season games as teaching tools.

Also the opening schedule wasn't kind.  The Suns were motivated to come in and beat the nemisis that knocked them out of the playoffs again.  Shaq wanted to prove that he wasn't washed up and as a whole they needed to show that they were contenders in a new system.  The Blazers were playing their home opener and were trying to show they belong in playoff discussions.  That game could have gone the other way if Finley's 7 footer hadn't skimmed off the rim.  The Mavs are the Spurs biggest divisional/state rival and needed to prove they are still relevant in the west as well as that their new system works. 

Especially with the Mavs one should look at the boxscore.  The Spurs had 11 players with 12 or more minutes and even the 12th player (vaughan) played over 10.  This is more like a preseason boxscore than a regular season one.
Duncan was the only player over 30 minutes....Mason played right at 30, Parker 29.5 minutes.  The Mavs had 4 of their starters play 35+ minutes. And their top 2 reserves played 18+ minutes.  In a blowout win their 3 end of the bench guys played 2 minutes each.  Does anyone really believe come the real season that the Spurs will go that deep in their bench?
It riles them to believe that you perceive the web they weave.  Keep on thinking free.
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jemagee

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2008, 01:06:52 PM »
OK - so maybe it's the rebounding

or maybe it's not

http://www.knickerblogger.net/stats/2009/d_efg.htm

Their effective FG% allowed is one of the worst in the league, and as already stated they are the worst defensive efficiency team in the league - as far as defensive rebounding % (which is a better arbiter than just counting as far as i'm concerned) - they are actually middle of the pack

They're also not forcing a whole lot of turnovers

THeir offense in many ways ini one of the better ones in the league right now in terms of scoring when they have the ball and not holding on to it - but they just don't have an awful lot of 'possesions' per game.

It seems that a slight more up tempo offense might be helpful

Offline westkoast

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #26 on: November 06, 2008, 01:09:24 PM »
Well, no manu and poor defense should do it don't you think?




It's not like Manu is a super lock down defender.  In fact (and maybe Lurker/x3 will disagree) but I actually think Duncan and Parker are better defenders.

I want to know why the defense is so poor.  Bad rotations?  Bad transition defense?  No closing out on shooters?  These are all things they've done VERY WELL for the past few years.  It looks like the Lakers stole their defensive mojo ala Space Jam.
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jemagee

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2008, 01:11:56 PM »
Quote

It's not like Manu is a super lock down defender.

No - but he's going to help the offensive tempo - i didn't realize the spurs had the least amount of possessions in the league - but one of the better performing offenses in the league WHEN they have the ball...the rebounding doesn't seem to be a huge problem per se in that they are mediocre at it - the FG% allowed though is atrocious....i have no idea if he would help with the turnover rate

Duncan and Parker are better defenders at their positions - but that's not the relevant question

The relevant question would be what is the net impact of the guys taking ginoblis place versus manu himself?

The spurs CAN NOT be allowing such a good eFG if they are going to run such a slow offense AND be one of the worst offensive rebounding teams in the league...yes getting better on defense would help sure but maybe picking up the tempo on offense would help as well

Offline westkoast

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2008, 01:26:26 PM »
Quote
No - but he's going to help the offensive tempo - i didn't realize the spurs had the least amount of possessions in the league - but one of the better performing offenses in the league WHEN they have the ball...the rebounding doesn't seem to be a huge problem per se in that they are mediocre at it - the FG% allowed though is atrocious....i have no idea if he would help with the turnover rate

Again I haven't seen any games this year so I can only go off what our resident Spurs experts say but if they are getting offensive rebounds I would imagine a number of those are easy put backs or points in the paint.

Manu doesn't help the tempo on offense.  In fact I think at times he disrupts it and that is why he is such a handful.  Sometimes he forces things and goes real fast in attack mode, not typical Spurs tempo.  The fact he disrupts the tempo and the offense at times is exactly why he tends to be the X-Factor for them.

Quote
Duncan and Parker are better defenders at their positions - but that's not the relevant question

Well if your 2 best defenders are still on the floor it makes me wonder why there was such a sharp drop off in defensive intensity.

Quote
The relevant question would be what is the net impact of the guys taking ginoblis place versus manu himself?

Good point!

Quote
The spurs CAN NOT be allowing such a good eFG if they are going to run such a slow offense AND be one of the worst offensive rebounding teams in the league...yes getting better on defense would help sure but maybe picking up the tempo on offense would help as well

Honestly I expect them to be fine when we get deeper into the season.  Though, as we all have said for the past few years, it does look as if some of the aging players need to be replaced with younger guys.
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jemagee

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Re: Spurs start season 0-3, WTF is going on?
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2008, 01:32:23 PM »
The problem with the spurs 'tempo' is that they are so damn slow - they are dead last in offensive pace and possessions but first in offensive efficiency - but they are also dead last in defensive efficiency as well - their offense peforms excellently but they just don't have enough chances offensively - they may grab offensive boards (again, i don't like counting stats) but they grab them at one of the worst rates in the league.

If Manu 'disrupts' their offense by making it run faster, based on the efficiency with which it has performed all year, that's a good thing, the offense NEEDS to go faster