ESPN reporting Okafor - 6/72...

[bebopdeluxe]

...if that is the number, we can forget about anything remotely close to 5/70 for Iggy.

And - honestly - I can't see Iggy getting more than Okafor...so, 6/70 (or perhaps, 5/60, if Iggy wants a shorter deal) has got to be the top end of what Iguodala and his agent can realistically expect...

Right?

[tk76-]

6/72 starts at about 9.9M with annual 8% raises.  That has Okafor making 600K less than Dalembert this year- which shows how Dalembert is still being soemwhat overpaid.

I see a 6/73 in Iguodala's future- which would start right at 10M.

[bebopdeluxe]

If you were an NBA GM, and you were picking first in a pickup game where the losing team's GM's family is killed, and the two best players in the game were Okafor and Iguodala, who would you pick?

I pick Emeka.

Here's another scenario...let's say that we did NOT get Brand, and both Okafor and Iguodala were signed to similar contracts...LB calls Stefanski and asks if we would trade Iguodala straight up for Okafor.  Would you do it?

I would do it in a nanosecond.

So, in my mind, there is no way the Sixers should pay Iggy more than Okafor...although I guess I could live with 6/73 (just to make the Sixers' new drama queen happy).

[Sub]

I'm not sure Okafor's deal affects Iguodala's all that much. Different players, different positions. Iguodala's the better basketball player, though, hands down.

[bebopdeluxe]

Sub:

1) I completely disagree that Okafor's signing a 6/72 contract does not affect Iguodala's market value.

2) The question of Iguodala being a better basketball player has nothing to do with his "market value", IMO.  You may also think that Iggy is a better player than Josh Smith, but I think it can be argued very strongly that Smith's "market value" (as a 3/4 who is a big-time shotblocker) is higher than Iguodala (in a league where swingmen are much more plentiful).  Look at Bogut's contract.  What the heck - Diop got a 5 year, full MLE contract.

Iggy and his agent better look at the money that good-to-marginal bigs get in the NBA before he starts asking for ridiculous money.

[Sub]

2) The question of Iguodala being a better basketball player has nothing to do with his "market value", IMO. 

I was referring to your hypothetical, homicidal pickup game scenario.

[Skates]

If you were an NBA GM, and you were picking first in a pickup game where the losing team's GM's family is killed, and the two best players in the game were Okafor and Iguodala, who would you pick?

I pick Emeka.

Here's another scenario...let's say that we did NOT get Brand, and both Okafor and Iguodala were signed to similar contracts...LB calls Stefanski and asks if we would trade Iguodala straight up for Okafor.  Would you do it?

I would do it in a nanosecond.

So, in my mind, there is no way the Sixers should pay Iggy more than Okafor...although I guess I could live with 6/73 (just to make the Sixers' new drama queen happy).

In your pick-up game scenario your family gets killed.  Iguodala is by far a better basketball player than Okafor and in a pick-up game his team would win 9 out of 10 times.  In the NBA where they play a structured team game a big guy with some talent and game like Okafor has more value than Iggy even though Iggy is the better basketball player, so I will agree that Okafor has more market value than Iggy, Deng, Ellis, etc.  Big men always do.

Every contract for an RFA affects every other one, but Okafor does not set the market for Iggy.  Biedrins set the market for Okafor and Okafor basically signed for $1.5 million per year over what Biedrins got.  Okafor has slightly better statistics than Biedrins, although I think Biedrins has equal or better numbers on a per minute basis as he gets shorter runs because Nelson goes to the mini-me line-ups he favors so often.

The market for Iggy is more logically linked to Ellis and Deng if you are looking for comparable players, although I know logic rarely applies in the NBA.  Stefanski has a background in mortgage finance and using truly comparable players to determine Iggy's value, and adjusting for the differences between the players like a real estate appraiser, is likely how he will approach the negotiations.

Josh Smith is unique in that teams are still willing to pay him for potential he may never reach.  Smith is still a tweener who does not rebound, shoot a high % or defend like a PF.  Before anyone cites his blocked shots I would note that he lacks bulk and strength to deny the low block to a guy like Brand, he basket hangs to get a lot of his blocks, (that is why the top shot-blocking forward in the game never sniffs a spot on the all-defensive first or second teams) and is not known for being a good fundamental defender.  He also has not shown the perimeter skills of a SF.  In the right system he can thrive and anywhere he goes he will make some spectacular dunks and blocks, but he is the one guy in this RFA class who is still looked upon almost like a guy coming out of the draft and is valued more highly based on his potential than his production alone.

[bebopdeluxe]

Skates:

First of all, it's not my family that gets killed...

 

Second of all, I do not agree with your premise...if the two best players are Iggy and Okafor in the game, I believe that Okafor's defensive presence and shotblocking ability will have more of an impact on the game than Iggy's athleticism.  Now, if it was a one-on-one game, I think that Iggy would win easily.

To be fair, I was being a bit tongue-in-cheeky with that first example, but the second one - the more plausible example still holds...all things being equal (similar contracts, teams need both an impact swingman and an impact big), would you trade Iguodala straight up for Okafor?

I would do it in a heartbeat - and I believe that most NBA GM's would as well.  In a world where teams would need both players, teams would jump on Okafor first, IMO.

And that should drive "market value", in my view.

[jemagee]

I am on skates side of this, opeople get blinded by height, okafor is no more a 'super star' than iguodala is, and he's not as good as you are making him out to be

[carolina blue]

Is Okafor really much better than Dalembert?

[Skates]

IMO in pick-up games guards and perimeter players/slashers have an advantage unless the big is an offensive monster, which Okafor is not.  More realistically Okafor would have no place on this team with all of our bigs.  If I was asked to trade Sammy and Iggy for some combination of Okafor and Wallace or Richardson, yes I would do that in a minute and toss in a first round pick to boot.

[bebopdeluxe]

carolina blue:

Would you trade Sammy straight up for Okafor?

I would...quickly.

jem:

I'm not blinding myself to thinking that Okafor is some kind of All-Star...but in a world where bigs get overpaid (Diop got a 5-year, full MLE deal, for crissakes), Okafor's "market value" is at least as high as Iguodala, IMO...but I respect your opinion if you do not agree with me.

[jemagee]

I'm not blinding myself to thinking that Okafor is some kind of All-Star...but in a world where bigs get overpaid (Diop got a 5-year, full MLE deal, for crissakes), Okafor's "market value" is at least as high as Iguodala, IMO...but I respect your opinion if you do not agree with me.

Fine...i can buy that

6 years 66 million dollars

that's what monta ellis got

To me, iguodala is worth more than monta ellis.

And that's how his agent is going to argue it as well probably.

There's a 'cache' in contracts and rightly or wrongly if igduodala makes less than ellis he'll be seen as 'less' than ellis by the majority of folks.

[tk76-]

I was referring to your hypothetical, homicidal pickup game scenario.

And I thought the courts I played on  growing up where pretty tough.  I broke my nose a few times, and there were a few fights, but nobody ever came close to getting whacked.

As per value- Okafor is more valuable because he can cover most centers and PF's. Biendins is physically overmatched by a lot of centers.  In terms of production, I also think Okafor comes out ahead, but Biedrins is a good intangibles type of player, and is about 4 years younger thean Okafor.

I think they both signed for about market value since they are both good bigs with somewhat limitted ceilings.  I agree with Skates that its hard to equate their values with Iguodala.

[Skates]

If you think back it seems that the Tyson Chandler and Sammy D signings set the market for Biedrins and Okafor.  As for Biedrins v. Okafor, I think Biedrins has more lateral and overall mobility and could play PF more easily than Okafor.  Okafor would definitely do better against the power players.