Author Topic: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block  (Read 21533 times)

Offline tk76-

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1426
  • 2Y1- Sixer's 'Logo'
    • View Profile
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #75 on: July 23, 2008, 12:09:21 PM »
Quote
Prince's jump shot has improved enough to where it is good enough to keep defenders honest and open up the lane.  I think Prince/Iguodala would be a very good 2/3, actually

So here's a question that occurs to me for the title seekers among us :)

Would you give up thad young (and pieces, but not real major ones) to get tayshaun prince to start with andre iguodala?

No, but I guess I would not be counted as one of the "title seekers."  I'm all for giving yourself a chance to win, but not by using a Florida Marlin mentality.

jemagee

  • Guest
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #76 on: July 23, 2008, 12:14:05 PM »
Quote
No, but I guess I would not be counted as one of the "title seekers."  I'm all for giving yourself a chance to win, but not by using a Florida Marlin mentality.

Obtaining Tayshaun prince is a florida marlin mentality?

There are actually 'two' florida marlin mentalities

Buy a title and then sell of immediately (which is difficult in todays NBA)

Suck for so long you catch lightening in a bottle and then sell high and restock your minors...the devil rays (yes the devil rays damn it, that's their name) are probably working on the same system)

And in a city starving for a title, and a baseball franchise with 1 title in 100+ years while the marlins have 2 in like 20, i think many fans wouldn't care either way as long as there was a parade

Offline tk76-

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1426
  • 2Y1- Sixer's 'Logo'
    • View Profile
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #77 on: July 23, 2008, 02:19:00 PM »
You are right.  Maybe the Celtic strategy is more accurate- or even what the Suns and Rockets did back when they had Barkley. 

There is nothing wrong with trying to find any way to get a winner.  I just personally like sustained success more than two year runs for titles- that might make me unusual for a Philly fan.  I sort of expect teams to fall short- because being from Philly I am so used to dissapoointment- but really that's just reality for most teams.

I probably would have been perfectly happy with rooting for the Braves all those years they were great but came up just short.  I also have enjoyed the Eagles resurgence despite no SB wins.  I am an intense fan who will follow the teams closely win or lose, so I'd rather be watching 10 years of relative success then see a team go for broke with a bunch of players I used to root against.

Offline Skates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
    • View Profile
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #78 on: July 23, 2008, 02:33:08 PM »
I have no problem "going for it" to win a title, but I am a calculated risk kind of guy.  Tayshaun Prince and the current version of Tracy McGrady are very nice players, but comparing that to what the Celtics did is a big reach.  Kevin Garnett is in a completely different plane of existence than those two.  A Prince or McGrady move would be more akin to the Ray Allen trade, a helpful piece, but meaningless as far as a title is concerned without getting Garnett and having a still very effective Paul Pirce in the fold.  If you are of the belief that we need a superstar player to win a title, which is generally true, then we either have to trade for one or develop one.  Prince and McGrady in 2009 do not qualify as superstars and neither do Iggy or Brand.  Our best hopes for developing a superstar are Thad and Speights, in that order. 

In a year or so some teams that fear losing their superstars in the summer of 2010, like say Cleveland or Phoenix, might decide to trim their losses and trade said superstar for some young, high level assets, draft picks and/or cap space.  That is when a team with well thought of youngsters like Portland, Chicago, Philly or Seattle can make the go for it all move.  Tayshaun Prince and McGrady are not the kind of guys I mortgage the future for (unless my name is Pat Gillick).

jemagee

  • Guest
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #79 on: July 23, 2008, 02:36:24 PM »
Tayshaun Prince is a known quantity, thaddeus young has upside and you hope he reaches it but it's not guaranteed to be reached...as far as 'risks' - prince is more of a certainty in helping a team win a title than thad young is, right now

Offline TheGuiltyParty

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 857
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #80 on: July 23, 2008, 02:42:28 PM »
Could you have a Prince/Young 2/3 combo??

Offline Derek Bodner

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3040
    • AOL Instant Messenger - dbodner22
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - dabodz
    • View Profile
    • http://www.phillyarena.com
    • Email
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2008, 03:30:10 PM »
The celtics 2 they acquired certainly would be a bigger upgrade than Brand + someone like Prince, but the Celtics aren't the only way to build a team.  They really were a unique situation where you had the right veterans, who had the right mindset, and the right skillsets, to fit together and work.  They're not the only way to build a championship, so I don't think acquiring them would be meaningless in a pursuit of a championship.

Offline Skates

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1122
    • View Profile
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2008, 03:43:03 PM »
The celtics 2 they acquired certainly would be a bigger upgrade than Brand + someone like Prince, but the Celtics aren't the only way to build a team.  They really were a unique situation where you had the right veterans, who had the right mindset, and the right skillsets, to fit together and work.  They're not the only way to build a championship, so I don't think acquiring them would be meaningless in a pursuit of a championship.

I think Stefanski's actions and statements indicate that he is building a hyrbid model of the Pistons and Suns.  Since building on the Celtics, Lakers or Spurs championship models each requires a 7' tall hall of famer, he is probably going in a more realistic direction.

Offline rickortreat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2056
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2008, 06:05:33 PM »
Frankly I don't like any of the trades being mentioned here as really helping the Sixers.  Thad has too much upside to trade him for Prince, and I really do like Prince as a player.  In another year or so, IMO, it will be clear that to have traded Thad would have been a big mistake. 

Billups is getting old, and that's why teams aren't going to pay him big money.  I wouldn't even trade Miller for him at this point, because Andre works so well for the Sixers.

What is wrong with being patient and seeing what you have?  A backcourt of Williams and Iguodala would be competitive with any team in the league, and better than most.  A front court with Brand, Young and Dalembert could be equally competitive, and any way you cut it, we have a decent bench, and possibly a great one if Speights pans out.

The nice thing about a young group is that they can surprise you.  I had no idea that the Sixers would become so much more competitive over the past season.  Young and Williams started to contribute significantly and it turned the Sixers into a team that played better than .600 ball for a stretch.

The addition of Brand is significant, since that was the Sixers weakest position last season.  Replacing Evans with Brand is like adding 15 points to your team without considering his impact on the others.  The emergence of Young at the 3 was great last season and it is likely that he will improve as his experience and his body grow. Igoudala at the 2 gives the Sixers an advantage nearly every night.

The weak link now is Dalembert at Center, and the guy managed a double-double last season.  With Brand, Dalembert is not going to be getting many looks at the basket, which will cut down on the mistakes that occur all too often with Sam in the middle.  If your going to make a trade you should be trying to upgrade at Center and add depth the three spot and the guards.

The team should be close to competing for a title with this group.  It may need an additional year of seasoning and development, or the players may not realize the potential I project them to be capable of.

If that is the case, then we can think about trades, but before I break-up this group I want to see them play.  This team will likely win over 50 games this season and may make it to the Conference championship.  The addition of Brand puts them ahead of the Pistons, IMO.

What matters is how they matchup with Boston and the Elite teams out West.  If they can beat Boston as they are, and LA with Bynum in the middle, they can win the title, or they can get close enough that an ageing star will come begging to get on the Sixers' bandwagon ala Robert Horry.

Offline tk76-

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1426
  • 2Y1- Sixer's 'Logo'
    • View Profile
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2008, 06:36:15 PM »
I agree, if the team can Sign Iguodala to a reasonable deal (stating year at 11M or less) they should go with what they have.  It will not be a good enough shooting team this year, but that may improve with time and future moves.

Offline Sub

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 115
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #85 on: July 23, 2008, 06:37:50 PM »
The question would be how far you think Thad is from equalling Prince at the 3, if at all. I could see it happening not this coming season but the following year, where he's putting up similar numbers, but still only 21 years of age. Given that, I'd rather just hold onto Thaddeus. Known quantity or not, I'd like to hold onto some of that long-term potential.

Offline tk76-

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1426
  • 2Y1- Sixer's 'Logo'
    • View Profile
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #86 on: July 23, 2008, 06:53:11 PM »
The question would be how far you think Thad is from equalling Prince at the 3, if at all. I could see it happening not this coming season but the following year, where he's putting up similar numbers, but still only 21 years of age. Given that, I'd rather just hold onto Thaddeus. Known quantity or not, I'd like to hold onto some of that long-term potential.

Agreed.  i want to see Thad as the teams starting SF for another 10-15 years.  I'd rather get to root for one great SF then a 3-4 equally good or even slightly better  vets over that time. 

If Iguodala and Thad end up being a great fit as their jump shots improve, I hope they are a cornerstone of a great chapter of the resurgence of the Sixers.

Offline rickortreat

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2056
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #87 on: July 24, 2008, 05:38:50 PM »
The question would be how far you think Thad is from equalling Prince at the 3, if at all. I could see it happening not this coming season but the following year, where he's putting up similar numbers, but still only 21 years of age. Given that, I'd rather just hold onto Thaddeus. Known quantity or not, I'd like to hold onto some of that long-term potential.


Agreed.  i want to see Thad as the teams starting SF for another 10-15 years.  I'd rather get to root for one great SF then a 3-4 equally good or even slightly better  vets over that time. 

If Iguodala and Thad end up being a great fit as their jump shots improve, I hope they are a cornerstone of a great chapter of the resurgence of the Sixers.

I agree wholeheartedly, and would prefer that the Sixers continue to build their team primarily through the draft.  I think that this gives the fans the best entertainment, and a sound foundation for continued success.

Brand and Miller were additions the team made to fill specific needs, and I don't object to adding vets under those circumstances.  It makes no sense to continue to wait to be able to fill the needs through the draft.  Had Shavlik or Hill or Amundsen worked out, we never would have gotten Brand, and I love that we got him.

But eventually we will have to replace Brand and Miller. They are our oldest starters and our success will be very dependent on Elton.

The Sixers are a predominately young team, and it isn't inconceivable that as they are currently, they could be very good.  It's not unreasonable to think that Iggy, Williams, Green and Young will all have improved their outside shooting and release. One thing that is certain is that Brand will force teams to leave these players open, and not being covered makes it much easier to hit an outside shot.

I want to see the team play a while to evaluate what their weaknesses are.  I think the players they have compliment each other pretty well, and the team has no apparent holes with the possible exception of outside shooters.

This team won a lot when they started playing defense and running.  They were only sporadic in half-court effectiveness, and really had trouble against teams committed to stopping them. With the addition of Brand, now we should be above average in  half-court situations.  That means other teams will be constantly fighting an uphill battle against a pressure defense, and the Sixers can go back and forth between being an uptempo running team, and a grind it out offense that just wears the other team down.

The Sixers are no-longer undersized. That hasn't been something I felt for awhile.  Cheeks was playing Korver at the 4 spot last season before he was traded! It is a big difference to be able to match up with other teams with players that are the right size, and are more athletic.

With Thad at the 3, Brand at the 4 and Sam at the 5, we should be one of the league leaders in rebounds, and score a higher percentage from the inside.  That should also translate into lots of foul shots for our side.

As long as we sign Lou and Iggy I'm looking forward to the new season with great anticipation.

Offline southjersey

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #88 on: July 24, 2008, 06:15:17 PM »
Agreed about the draft, however I think its safe to assume that the sixers are now at a point where they wont be drafting below 20. They will have to do an excellent job of scouting, but I have alot of faith in ES and Dilio.

No way should this twam trade Thad. I'd much rather see a drafted player become a star then trade for  one, or close to one.

Offline sixers hoops

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 70
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Latest from sf1976: Iggy on the block
« Reply #89 on: July 24, 2008, 09:49:47 PM »
I think to get Billups AND prince you'd probably have to include Young, Speights and probably Smith not to mention a first round pick or two, don't you think?

Plus to get the contracts to work without including iguodala you'd have to throw in like the entire bench?

Billups and Prince make about 20.5, so the Sixers would have to send almost 16 million in salary.

Andre Miller, Reggie, and Thad would likely work cap-wise and give them major cap relief and a really good young prospect in Thad. I think Detroit might do something with these principle parts, and I definitely would from the Sixers perspective.