So will this be treated like Somalia?

[jn]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3585765.stm

After the footage of American bodies beeing dragged through the streets of Mogadishu people were up in arms.  Bill Clinton was a draft dodger who didn't know how to run a war.  George Bush the elder showed he wasn't a true conservative because he failed to follow the Reagan Doctrine of not sending in troops unless America's vital national interests were at stake.  Bush let his desire to have history view him as a benevolent force clouded his vision and Clinton continued the policy until America was shamed and appalled.

Will there be an outcry now?

Given the fact that the WMD search has proved a farce can we now say we have a vital national interest in Iraq except for oil?  Much has been made of the good we are doing by eliminating Saddam and freeing oppressed groups.  Our war to protect America is now sold as a humanitarian mission, which is exactly what Bush the Elder and Clinton were berated by conservatives for.  

I'm not trying to bait anyone into a hostile argument here, (though that will probably happen  <_< ) but I'd really like to hear your thoughts on this.  

And yes I have factored in the fact that the Admin probably really did believe that Iraq had WMD.  

 

 

[Lurker]

My thoughts haven't changed.  I don't believe we should have ever gone to Iraq, I don't believe we should still be there and I believe we should pull all of our troops and civilians out immediately.

Let the Iraqis and others in the region fight for control.  Whoever finally ends up on top will take years to be in position to negatively impact the US.  And if for some reason they are foolish enough to try anything against Americans then go back in and remove the leaders....just like Afghanistan.

IMO Bush has a lot of lives to answer for.  Too many have died in Iraq for the sole purpose of satisfying Bush's desire for vengence.

[spursfan101]

Bush wouldn't would do the exact opposite of  what Clinton did,  If anything else, I envision an empassioned speech, and more troop deployment.  Horrible, horrible photos. Props to the Iraqi insurgents for knowing our history though, I'm sure that's exactly why they did what they did today. They want to disgust the American people into pulling out of this war.  

[dbodner_lazy]

I just can't see what good this has done for the american people.

"To end the threat of Iraqi WMD's"
- No WMD's were found.
"Iraq helped fund Al-Qaeda, so this will help the war on terror".
- No evidence to suggest they did, and this has only increased Al-Qaeda support and strengthened its member total.

So, what we have here, is a large amount of wasted money, a continually-struggling economy, large american death toll, international ferver and strengthened terrorist cell over what has been found to be a non-existant threat to the american people.

What good has come out of this to justify it?

I was borderline when it started.  If they did have WMD's, I didn't have a problem going to war, however I wanted international backing.  Now, with them being wrong on every account and severely miscalculating the cost to america in terms of $, time and lives lost, I can't support it at all.

[Ted]

Life must have been so easy for the Soviets. They would've made Fallujah a little smudge on the map if the victims had been Russian.

Alas, we are civilized. We do not run out in crowds and dismember dead enemies, even WoW wouldn't do that.

Personally, I don't have a political response for this yet. I'm still feeling sad for the victims' families. I hope they didn't find out through the media before the Army could tell them. Sorry, that's all I've got right now. Not ready to make political hay out of this.

[WayOutWest]

Alas, we are civilized. We do not run out in crowds and dismember dead enemies, even WoW wouldn't do that.
 

Well...at least not since the 60's.

I wonder if in this day and age a splitting of the nation of Iraq, similar to Korea would be viable?

[WayOutWest]

Alas, we are civilized. We do not run out in crowds and dismember dead enemies, even WoW wouldn't do that.
 

Yikes, those bastards.  Read a bit more, they also dragged the bodies behind cars/trucks through the streets.  That would NEVER happen here in the states.  :rolleyes:

My point being that people in the US are no better/worse than anyone else anywhere else in the world.  We just haven't been pushed as far.  For flock's sake we've got serial killers, rapists and CANNIBALS!

[Randy]

Alas, we are civilized. We do not run out in crowds and dismember dead enemies, even WoW wouldn't do that.
 

Yikes, those bastards.  Read a bit more, they also dragged the bodies behind cars/trucks through the streets.  That would NEVER happen here in the states.  :rolleyes:

My point being that people in the US are no better/worse than anyone else anywhere else in the world.  We just haven't been pushed as far.  For flock's sake we've got serial killers, rapists and CANNIBALS!

I'm not sure that I see a lot of difference between this and some of the "celebrations" that have happened in the name of sports -- not to mention the losing.  Thugs exist in every society and they should be dealt with swiftly and firmly.  However, we seem to be more interested in protecting the criminal these days than inflicting justice -- whether it's our country or anywhere else.

Does anyone see the similarities between what is happening in Iraq and what happened in the war of Independence with Britain?  We simply won't allow ourselves to fight in the same way that these people fight.  They believe that they can kill infidels in ANY way they desire -- we have a code of ethics by which the war must be fought.  The US would have never had a chance if we would have fought the Redcoats straight up on the battlefield but with the sniping and shooting behind barriers/etc., the US made it a war.  I'm obviously not talking about the reasons behind it -- simply in the way it is fought.

[WayOutWest]

Alas, we are civilized. We do not run out in crowds and dismember dead enemies, even WoW wouldn't do that.
 

Yikes, those bastards.  Read a bit more, they also dragged the bodies behind cars/trucks through the streets.  That would NEVER happen here in the states.  :rolleyes:

My point being that people in the US are no better/worse than anyone else anywhere else in the world.  We just haven't been pushed as far.  For flock's sake we've got serial killers, rapists and CANNIBALS!

I'm not sure that I see a lot of difference between this and some of the "celebrations" that have happened in the name of sports -- not to mention the losing.  Thugs exist in every society and they should be dealt with swiftly and firmly.  However, we seem to be more interested in protecting the criminal these days than inflicting justice -- whether it's our country or anywhere else.

Does anyone see the similarities between what is happening in Iraq and what happened in the war of Independence with Britain?  We simply won't allow ourselves to fight in the same way that these people fight.  They believe that they can kill infidels in ANY way they desire -- we have a code of ethics by which the war must be fought.  The US would have never had a chance if we would have fought the Redcoats straight up on the battlefield but with the sniping and shooting behind barriers/etc., the US made it a war.  I'm obviously not talking about the reasons behind it -- simply in the way it is fought.

Agreed Randy, the "Good Guy" is a much tougher role to play.

Like I stated way back when, I would have dropped nukes on Afgan and sorted out the ashes later.  It's always easier to ask for forgivness than it is to ask for permission.  I would then have played the "temporary insanity" or "road/terrorist rage" card in the world court.

Thank your blue eyed Jesus I'm not in charge cause after the terrorist I'd start looking for white devils under every rock.  :ph34r:

 

[Guest_spursfan101]

If I were Bush:

I would have my people examine the videotapes of the insurgents and the men and children who violated the American bodies, and I would get a positive ID. I would then bribe the citizens into telling me who these citizens were. Once confirmed, I wouldn't send in the marine corp. I would send in the Navy Seals, and have these people methodically, viciously taken out.

They could take a scene out of "Enemy at the Gate" and hang these idiots from the highest tower.

[WayOutWest]

If I were Bush:

I would have my people examine the videotapes of the insurgents and the men and children who violated the American bodies, and I would get a positive ID. I would then bribe the citizens into telling me who these citizens were. Once confirmed, I wouldn't send in the marine corp. I would send in the Navy Seals, and have these people methodically, viciously taken out.

They could take a scene out of "Enemy at the Gate" and hang these idiots from the highest tower.

I don't know about taking out kids.  It's thier stupid parents fault not theirs.  Hate that strong has to not only be taught but drilled into their heads.  My kids woudn't touch a dead mouse or bird let alone a human body, that type of behavior was taught.

[spursfan101]

I don't know about taking out kids. It's thier stupid parents fault not theirs. Hate that strong has to not only be taught but drilled into their heads. My kids woudn't touch a dead mouse or bird let alone a human body, that type of behavior was taught.

When I was a kid, my dog killed a cat once. He devoured it in our backyard, and I remember my dad saying that we had to kill him. Even though we all loved him, my dad said he had the "taste for blood" and would do it again if given the chance.  If these young boys have the "taste for blood" right now, what's going to happen when they become more indoctrinated.  

I say either kill em, or apologize and give them health insurance. <_<  

[WayOutWest]

I don't know about taking out kids. It's thier stupid parents fault not theirs. Hate that strong has to not only be taught but drilled into their heads. My kids woudn't touch a dead mouse or bird let alone a human body, that type of behavior was taught.

When I was a kid, my dog killed a cat once. He devoured it in our backyard, and I remember my dad saying that we had to kill him. Even though we all loved him, my dad said he had the "taste for blood" and would do it again if given the chance.  If these young boys have the "taste for blood" right now, what's going to happen when they become more indoctrinated.  

I say either kill em, or apologize and give them health insurance. <_<

Is your dad from Iraq?

My dogs killed two cats when they were younger and it didn't change them one bit.  Who cares if they killed cats, rats and mice.  Why the flock would you kill your dog for acting like a dog.  Christ we need to nuke Texas as well!  

[spursfan101]

:lol:  :lol:  

I have a friend who grew up in LA. His dad was a detective in the LAPD, and he was a very strict man who didn't put with SH**.  One day him and his dad were watching TV, and the dog walked right in front of him and took a dump right there on the floor. My friend was expecting his dad to get up and kick the dog or do something, but the man maintained a level head, which suprised him.  A few minutes passed, and his dad got up, picked up the dog, and took him outside to the backyard.

To my friends relief, his dad calmy laid some newspaper on the floor, and put the dog on top of the paper.  Oh, he's going to teach him how to be pottytrained was what my friend thought.  He was wrong, his dad pulled out his service revolver, put it to the dogs head, and BLAM!  He then calmly wrapped up the dog in the paper, and threw it in the trashcan.  AND THAT WAS IN LA, so IT"S NOT JUST A TEXAS THING!!

Oh, and to wrap up my little story, my dad NEVER shot the dog. My mom wore the pants in my family, we comromised, and kept him chained behind the back garage for awhile til he "learned his lesson." Not my dad...the dog! :lol:  

[Ted]

If I were Bush:

I would have my people examine the videotapes of the insurgents and the men and children who violated the American bodies, and I would get a positive ID. I would then bribe the citizens into telling me who these citizens were. Once confirmed, I wouldn't send in the marine corp. I would send in the Navy Seals, and have these people methodically, viciously taken out.

They could take a scene out of "Enemy at the Gate" and hang these idiots from the highest tower.

I don't know about taking out kids.  It's thier stupid parents fault not theirs.  Hate that strong has to not only be taught but drilled into their heads.  My kids woudn't touch a dead mouse or bird let alone a human body, that type of behavior was taught.

So who drilled it into your head? :lol: