Is Houston really worse without Yao?

[Randy]

I realize that many are saying that Yao being out lessened the chances of Houston being a contender -- I guess I'm just not sure that I think it's the case.  I really don't think that the Rockets had a chance WITH Yao. 

But I'm not sure that I don't think that the Rockets are a worse team without Yao.  I really like what I'm seeing from this team with Yao out of the game -- with Yao the game seems to be very predictable and the offense slows to Yao's pace (which makes Shaq look like Ben Johnson on steroids) -- without Yao, the Rockets are moving without the ball and sharing it much better.  It reminds me of what Adelman did with the Kings -- when Webber was out of the game, the team moved so much better without the ball -- the same thing is now happening in Houston now that Yao is out.  The team is moving without the ball that it's something to ponder.  I can't help but wonder what a Chris Bosh, Dwight Howard type of player would do in this system rather than Yao. 

I'm not trying to say that I think that Houston is better without Yao -- I just don't think they are as bad as what everyone says.  Hmm, would the Raps trade Bosh for Yao?

[WayOutWest]

How many titles did Adelman and his Kings win?  Exactly.  Yao's loss will impact the Rockets come playoff time.  You have to have the ability to execute in the half court come playoff time, Yao is more than enough in that regard, not having him will make it alot tougher on the Rockets.  They will probably not even make the playoffs now.

[westkoast]

There are still a number of teams Houston can beat with out Yao.  I don't think anyone is questioning if they can beat some of the non-playoff bound teams when they match up.  More like can they handle SA, LA, Dallas, PHX, NO, Den with out a legit second option?

[Randy]

How many titles did Adelman and his Kings win?

About as many as I see the Rockets winning WITH Yao -- none -- which was exactly why I posted this topic.

More like can they handle SA, LA, Dallas, PHX, NO, Den with out a legit second option?

You mean like the way the spanked Denver yesterday?  I don't think that Houston can hang with SA, LA or NO with our without Yao -- I do think that Houston can hang with Phoenix and Denver -- perhaps even Dallas without Yao.  I'm just saying that when a player comes in that disrupts your offense -- then he hurts you as much as he helps you.  Perhaps it's worth seeing if someone can make you BETTER rather than just about the same.

[Lurker]

I'm just saying that when a player comes in that disrupts your offense -- then he hurts you as much as he helps you.  Perhaps it's worth seeing if someone can make you BETTER rather than just about the same.

Scoring 22+ points on 50+% shooting disrupts the offense?  Being only 1 of 5or 6 20/10 players in the league is a bad thing?

What disrupts Houston's offense more than anything is the PG position.  Why do you think they traded for Bobby Jackson?  They needed more experience at that spot.

[Randy]

Okay, the Rockets have had these two players for years -- what has it netted them?  Bounced out in the first round (when they make the playoffs)?  Sure, Yao is a 20/10 -- how far has that gotten him?  Most teams who have two "superstars" at least get past the first round, don't they?  Garnett managed to get his team to the first round and he was basically "it" for the TWolves. 

I don't agree with the whole point guard either -- TMac has always been a player who has to have the ball in his hands to work, take it out of his hands and he doesn't function in the offense.  The Rockets played great ball the other night passing the ball, finding the open man and TMac was the initiated the offense -- the problem is that when Yao plays, the dump it down in the post and stand around and watch doesn't get much done.  Sure, Yao scores 20/10 so the Rockets can get bounced yet once again in the playoffs. 

I wouldn't be very satisfied with that if I were a Rocket fan.

[Lurker]

Okay, the Rockets have had these two players for years -- what has it netted them?  Bounced out in the first round (when they make the playoffs)?  Sure, Yao is a 20/10 -- how far has that gotten him?  Most teams who have two "superstars" at least get past the first round, don't they?  Garnett managed to get his team to the first round and he was basically "it" for the TWolves. 

I don't agree with the whole point guard either -- TMac has always been a player who has to have the ball in his hands to work, take it out of his hands and he doesn't function in the offense.  The Rockets played great ball the other night passing the ball, finding the open man and TMac was the initiated the offense -- the problem is that when Yao plays, the dump it down in the post and stand around and watch doesn't get much done.  Sure, Yao scores 20/10 so the Rockets can get bounced yet once again in the playoffs. 

I wouldn't be very satisfied with that if I were a Rocket fan.

I see the problem...you think McGrady & Yao are both superstars.  Nuff said.


I read something over the weekend where Marion came out and said that Kerr met with him & his agent to discuss a contract extension.  Kerr told Marion only Duncan and Garnett deserve max money (to be clear -Kerr's words not mine) and Marion's reaction: pay me or trade me.

[msc]

I read something over the weekend where Marion came out and said that Kerr met with him & his agent to discuss a contract extension.  Kerr told Marion only Duncan and Garnett deserve max money (to be clear -Kerr's words not mine) and Marion's reaction: pay me or trade me.

Apparently Kerr believes 3 players deserve max money considering the contract he just put on their books w/the Big Cactus. 

I'll bet if you gave Steve Kerr a "do-over" today, he would un-do that trade. 

[Reality]

^^ or could Shaq and he had a gentlemans agreement that Shaq agrees to some reduced buyout if this years playoffs bomb due in large part to a would-be large Shaq ineffective play?

Or are you sticking with your stance that the Big Egostotle doesn't opt out ever?  You know what, he gave that answer with his silly "I'm the son of a seargent and we stick it out till the end, even if it means the severe suffering of collecting a $20 million a year paycheck". 

[JoMal]

How many titles did Adelman and his Kings win?  Exactly.  Yao's loss will impact the Rockets come playoff time.  You have to have the ability to execute in the half court come playoff time, Yao is more than enough in that regard, not having him will make it alot tougher on the Rockets.  They will probably not even make the playoffs now.

They won one. The Laker/League just did not allow it.

[westkoast]

How many titles did Adelman and his Kings win?  Exactly.  Yao's loss will impact the Rockets come playoff time.  You have to have the ability to execute in the half court come playoff time, Yao is more than enough in that regard, not having him will make it alot tougher on the Rockets.  They will probably not even make the playoffs now.

They won one. The Laker/League just did not allow it.

Actually it was the Free Throw line that stopped the Mighty Mighty Kings.  Don't give the Lakers credit for that.

[WayOutWest]

Actually it was the Free Throw line that stopped the Mighty Mighty Kings.  Don't give the Lakers credit for that.

Agreed.  Not even an all-time defensive team of Russell, Duncan, Pippen, Jordan and Payton could play defense as well as the lock down D that the HOME COURT rim and free throw line did on the Kings.

[ziggy]

Houston would have moved past New Orleans, Denver, Golden State, Phoenix and Dallas at least this year.  They were easily on par with Jazz, Lakers and Spurs, before Yao's injury.  The notion that they would go just as far if not farther with Mutombo at center as opposed to Yao at center is absurd.

Would the Jazz make the conference semi's without Boozer?
Would the Lakers make the conference semi's without Kobe?
Would SA make the conference semi's without Duncan?
Would NO make the conference semi's without Paul?
Would Denver make the conference semi's without Anthony, Iverson or Camby?
Would GS make the conference semi's without Davis?
Would the Suns make the conference semi's without Nash?
Would Dallas make the conference semi's without Dirk?

[Randy]

Okay, the Rockets have had these two players for years -- what has it netted them?  Bounced out in the first round (when they make the playoffs)?  Sure, Yao is a 20/10 -- how far has that gotten him?  Most teams who have two "superstars" at least get past the first round, don't they?  Garnett managed to get his team to the first round and he was basically "it" for the TWolves. 

I don't agree with the whole point guard either -- TMac has always been a player who has to have the ball in his hands to work, take it out of his hands and he doesn't function in the offense.  The Rockets played great ball the other night passing the ball, finding the open man and TMac was the initiated the offense -- the problem is that when Yao plays, the dump it down in the post and stand around and watch doesn't get much done.  Sure, Yao scores 20/10 so the Rockets can get bounced yet once again in the playoffs. 

I wouldn't be very satisfied with that if I were a Rocket fan.

I see the problem...you think McGrady & Yao are both superstars.  Nuff said.


I read something over the weekend where Marion came out and said that Kerr met with him & his agent to discuss a contract extension.  Kerr told Marion only Duncan and Garnett deserve max money (to be clear -Kerr's words not mine) and Marion's reaction: pay me or trade me.

I don't believe that Yao and McGrady are superstars -- but I do believe that they are making superstar MONEY! 

I would agree with Kerr -- but wonder how Amare would respond to that -- didn't they Suns pay Amare the max?

[Randy]

Houston would have moved past New Orleans, Denver, Golden State, Phoenix and Dallas at least this year.  They were easily on par with Jazz, Lakers and Spurs, before Yao's injury.  The notion that they would go just as far if not farther with Mutombo at center as opposed to Yao at center is absurd.

Would the Jazz make the conference semi's without Boozer?
Would the Lakers make the conference semi's without Kobe?
Would SA make the conference semi's without Duncan?
Would NO make the conference semi's without Paul?
Would Denver make the conference semi's without Anthony, Iverson or Camby?
Would GS make the conference semi's without Davis?
Would the Suns make the conference semi's without Nash?
Would Dallas make the conference semi's without Dirk?

lol -- sorry, I don't buy that the Rockets were on the same level as the Lakers, Spurs and Jazz.  I never said that the Rockets would make it to the conference semi's without Yao -- I don't think they would make the conference semi's WITH Yao.  Personally, I think they can go as far without him as they would with him -- and that's a first round bounce unless they get lucky and play a bad team or a team with injuries.  And I wasn't talking about replacing Yao with Mutombo -- perhaps you could go back and read my post and see what I was actually referring to trading for Yao.

I'm pretty amazed at your Yao comparisons:  Yao = Kobe?  Yao = Duncan?  Yao isn't a superstar -- and while he may be on the same level as some of the players you mentioned, he certainly isn't the same as others you mentioned.

How about this question:  How well would the prospective teams do without the particular star in regular games against playoff opponents?
   Would the Jazz win without Boozer?
   Would the Lakers win without Kobe?
   Would SA win without Duncan?
   Would NO win without Paul?
   Would Denver win without Anthony, Iverson or Camby?
   Would GS win without Davis?
   Would the Suns win without Nash?
   Would Dallas win without Dirk?
   Would Houston win without Yao?