This is starting to get silly...New Kobe trade rumors

[WayOutWest]

Maybe in LA it looks like that but from everywhere else it looks like the Lakers are now just another franchise- one with a better past, but not much of a future.

My opinion is based on TV apearances and attendace figures when the Lakers are playing away and at home.

[westkoast]

If the Lakers were just another franchise they wouldn't get the attention that they do.  Hate em or love em it is the truth.  No matter what they will be talked about.  It is more then just that they are in a major market because the Knicks don't make half as much noise as the Lakers do.    Even tho the Lakers are closer to the Knicks then they are the Spurs lol....meaning the Lakers still are watched closely when they are a mid-bottom of the pack squad right now.  Saying no team has a future shows how bitter you are towards the franchise.  EVERY franchise has a chance to turn it around.  Some would argue that the Spurs looked to have no future as David Robinson started to age until they were able to draft the greatest power forward to play the game.  He bounced into their lap, literally.  Even Philly has a chance to turn it around.

'Just another franchise' title belongs to Philly if anyone...and that is not a shot at you Rick, it is just the truth.

[WayOutWest]

Boston is a perfect example of comming back from the dead.

[westkoast]

Boston is a perfect example of comming back from the dead.

Exactly..went from having one of the worst records last year to bouncing better EC teams by 30 points without breaking a sweat.

[Joe Vancil]

The difference in the Shaq and Kobe situation, WOW, is that Shaq's situation was about money, and Kobe's situation was about ego.  Money problems don't destroy team chemistry the way ego problems do....unless the money problem *IS* an ego problem.  Shaq wanted to be paid for what he had done...not "to prove a point."  Granted, what he did was an @$$#013 thing to do, but a good front office simply fines Shaq for such a thing, and continues in the negotiations and gets a contract extension hammered out.

Finally, you have to realize the logic problem with the Kobe situation.  You have one of two scenarios:

1)  Kobe said, "Either Shaq goes, or I go."

I think that's what happened.  And if Kobe were to make such a threat now, he'd likely make other threats in the future.  That's a cancer, and you need to cut it out.  Either trade him before that point, or sign-and-trade him afterward.  He'll fetch a pretty penny, being a young talent, and you could pilfer a great deal, and add to the pieces around Shaq.  Heck, Shaq won the title in 2006 on a roster depleted to get him;  if you added lots of pieces and kept the roster together, it's not inconceivable that the Lakers could have had the 2005, 2006, and 2007 titiles with Shaq and the pieces acquired by trading Bryant.

2)  Kobe said, "It doesn't matter to me whether Shaq goes or not."

This is your take.  In that case, it is absolutely *STUPID* to dump Shaq.  Why should you?  After all, Kobe has no objection.

What DIDN'T happen is what a GOOD teammate - one not at all like Bryant - would have done.  And that's is to say, "Trading Shaq will hurt your chances of keeping me."


                                                                   

[WayOutWest]

The difference in the Shaq and Kobe situation, WOW, is that Shaq's situation was about money, and Kobe's situation was about ego.  Money problems don't destroy team chemistry the way ego problems do....unless the money problem *IS* an ego problem.  Shaq wanted to be paid for what he had done...not "to prove a point."  Granted, what he did was an @$$#013 thing to do, but a good front office simply fines Shaq for such a thing, and continues in the negotiations and gets a contract extension hammered out.

So did you miss the whole NVE, Elden and EJ are gone point I made?  Invalidates everything you just posted above.  Shaq problem is his ego AND money.  So Shaq brings you DOUBLE the trouble.

Finally, you have to realize the logic problem with the Kobe situation.  You have one of two scenarios:

1)  Kobe said, "Either Shaq goes, or I go."

I think that's what happened.  And if Kobe were to make such a threat now, he'd likely make other threats in the future.  That's a cancer, and you need to cut it out.  Either trade him before that point, or sign-and-trade him afterward.  He'll fetch a pretty penny, being a young talent, and you could pilfer a great deal, and add to the pieces around Shaq.  Heck, Shaq won the title in 2006 on a roster depleted to get him;  if you added lots of pieces and kept the roster together, it's not inconceivable that the Lakers could have had the 2005, 2006, and 2007 titiles with Shaq and the pieces acquired by trading Bryant.

Has everyone forgotten how out of shape Shaq kept getting each and every year?  Shaq was leading by example into the toilet.  So if you start getting lazy at work and missing work should you be worth ME putting my neck out for you?  NO cause you don't give a frog about your work why should I give a frog about keeping you at work.  Obviously if we were friends it would be a different scenario.

2)  Kobe said, "It doesn't matter to me whether Shaq goes or not."

This is your take.  In that case, it is absolutely *STUPID* to dump Shaq.  Why should you?  After all, Kobe has no objection.

What DIDN'T happen is what a GOOD teammate - one not at all like Bryant - would have done.  And that's is to say, "Trading Shaq will hurt your chances of keeping me."

I'm sure Shaq WOULD have gone that route with NVE, Elden and EJ if he had a brian but he didn't nor did he have a work ethic.  Obviously it was a horrid situation but I don't blame Kobe for it.  I don't blame Kobe for Shaq getting FAT and lazy after his first title, nor do I blame Kobe for Shaq missing games durring "company time", nor do I blame Kobe for INSULTING Buss on national television.

[Reality]

Has everyone forgotten how out of shape Shaq kept getting each and every year?  Shaq was leading by example into the toilet.  So if you start getting lazy at work and missing work should you be worth ME putting my neck out for you?  NO cause you don't give a frog about your work why should I give a frog about keeping you at work.  Obviously if we were friends it would be a different scenario.

Shaq may well have been just as motivated to get in shape with a Kobegone 2004-5 Lakers as he was with the 2004-5 Heat.  Maybe moreso, since the mediastrom over "How will Shaq and the Lakers do without Kobe" would have been huge.  Thereby perhaps prompting his widdle ego.

[westkoast]

Has everyone forgotten how out of shape Shaq kept getting each and every year?  Shaq was leading by example into the toilet.  So if you start getting lazy at work and missing work should you be worth ME putting my neck out for you?  NO cause you don't give a frog about your work why should I give a frog about keeping you at work.  Obviously if we were friends it would be a different scenario.

Shaq may well have been just as motivated to get in shape with a Kobegone 2004-5 Lakers as he was with the 2004-5 Heat.  Maybe moreso, since the mediastrom over "How will Shaq and the Lakers do without Kobe" would have been huge.  Thereby perhaps prompting his widdle ego.

And what happened?  He tried then gave up after a few months.  Like always.

Anyone who is still wondering if the Lakers should have kept Shaq instead of Kobe should check out Shaq's killer stat line..

29 minutes a game..8.5 points 6 rebounds less then 40% from the field.

[WayOutWest]

Shaq may well have been just as motivated to get in shape with a Kobegone 2004-5 Lakers as he was with the 2004-5 Heat.  Maybe moreso, since the mediastrom over "How will Shaq and the Lakers do without Kobe" would have been huge.  Thereby perhaps prompting his widdle ego.

YAWN

96

SIKE!

I agree.  Hindsight is is 20/20 and if the Lakers had traded Kobe and brought in a very good player I wonder if it would have been enough to turn Shaq around BUT it was clearly Wade who carried the team with Shaq and that's what the Lakers would have needed in return for Kobe.  I don't know if Wade would have been able to carry the Lakers past the Spurs but it would have been an interesting scenario.  The only players who I think could have worked with Shaq instead of Kobe at that point in Shaq career are Wade and a healthy T-Mac.  Ray Allen and a few other players might have been able to win titles with a younger Shaq BUT Kobe even then Kobe did have to carry the Lakers durring stretches and durring games when the Lakers three-peated, so I don't know who could have done that if it was possible at all.  As funny as it sounds Sam Cassel comes to mind, a 3rd/4th tier player, not any 1st/2nd tier back court players.

[Reality]

And what happened?  He tried then gave up after a few months.  Like always.
Anyone who is still wondering if the Lakers should have kept Shaq instead of Kobe should check out Shaq's killer stat line.. [/quote]
"All that counts is titles" according to msc and WayOut in the WildBlue YAWNder West.  Shaq 1, Kobester and Lakers zero.

[westkoast]

"All that counts is titles" according to msc and WayOut in the WildBlue YAWNder West.  Shaq 1, Kobester and Lakers zero.

Shaq + Kobe = 3

Shaq + Wade = 1

Kobe by himself = 0

Shaq by himself (In Orlando and in LA)  = 0
.
Discrediting Wade's talent like you always seem to do just to try to get a jab at the Lakers makes you look silly as a basketball fan.

[Reality]

Shaq may well have been just as motivated to get in shape with a Kobegone 2004-5 Lakers as he was with the 2004-5 Heat.  Maybe moreso, since the mediastrom over "How will Shaq and the Lakers do without Kobe" would have been huge.  Thereby perhaps prompting his widdle ego.

I agree.  Hindsight is is 20/20 and if the Lakers had traded Kobe and brought in a very good player I wonder if it would have been enough to turn Shaq around....

Let the heavens rejoice.

[JoMal]

Heaven only knows that the last thing this board needs to be more boring is to keep talking about the same old crap involving the Lakers and "opinions" on Shaq and Kobe's relationship.

But if the issue is whether or not Kobe will be, or wants to be, traded, I think the answer is going to evolve into a "No" - from both the Lakers stand and Kobe's.

And as much as I hate to say it, that is going to be due to Phil Jackson, who once again proves his worth by doing something about an issue that affects the basketball being played and not the soap opera being played around him, and his team.

Has anyone else not noticed that the Lakers are a pretty decent team at the moment? Some of those young, unproven Laker players of yore that made up Bryant's supporting cast are no longer all that young and unproven. If Kobe were to be traded, no doubt the team to which he went would immediately go into a rebuilding mode, because to get Kobe will require some talent in return, or why bother.

He has just done the rebuilding process with the Lakers, and from all I have observed from the cheap seats, Jackson has actually succeeded in forming Walton and Bynum and Turief into a "TEAM" that not only supports the superstar, but in whom the superstar clearly is trusting more and more in the scheme of the offense.

If Kobe does as promised, which is to essentially just shut up, I see no reason for him to opt out of Los Angeles. The management's ire towards him can die down, Jackson can do what he always does, and Kobe might, just might, be satisfied that the team is actually giving him some quality around him. Now that Fisher is back, his comfort level is clearly as high as it has ever been on the court.

So for Kobe to go elsewhere and make an immediate championship quality team and associated impact, what team out there could possibly use him to do this anyway? Phoenix? San Antonio? Cleveland? Dallas?

Uh uh

Boston has already made their moves, the Bulls would not have the chemistry for several years, Sloan would end up killing Kobe in a month or so, and no way he would opt for any of the drudges in the East other then those mentioned, especially the Knicks or Nets.

So he might just look around and realyze that the Lakers have secretly given him exactly what he was asking for all along, just not with immediate impact free agent players or blockbuster trades.

Once Odom comes back, I can see a much better finish for the Lakers this season, and in as few as two years from now, when the Dallas, the Spurs, and the Suns start to fade, the Lakers will be right back on top.

Now I must go poison myself in the most agonizing fashion I can come up with.

[WayOutWest]

Once Odom comes back, I can see a much better finish for the Lakers this season, and in as few as two years from now, when the Dallas, the Spurs, and the Suns start to fade, the Lakers will be right back on top.

Unfortunately, that's what it's going to take for the Lakers to get on top, for other teams to fall off.  The Lakers don't have a championship caliber team.  Unless Bynum becomes a force in the middle, something he just doesn't seem to have in him, and Odom plays at a level not seen since his days in Miami, the Lakers are not going anywhere other than the second round at best.  I just don't see Odom being healthy or passionate enough to be the difference maker nor do I see Bynum being able to play at a level that offsets guys like Dirk and TD.  Dirk and TD can play each other even and allow the other players to put them over the top.

There is hope that it could happen with Kobe and his supporting case but not an expectation, especially when there is a team like the Suns that can overwhelm the Lakers.  Not to mention there are up and comming teams like the Jazz who are much better positioned to take over the top spot when teams like the Spurs/Mavs/Suns get older and start to fall off.

[Reality]

And as much as I hate to say it, that is going to be due to Phil Jackson, who once again proves his worth by doing something about an issue that affects the basketball being played and not the soap opera being played around him, and his team.

Has anyone else not noticed that the Lakers are a pretty decent team at the moment? 

It's been 3 games.  Last years Lakers would beat some of the good teams then lose against sub .500s.
I also noticed they caught Phoenix on a back to back and Phx has sucked against everyone in 2nd nighters.  Next day Amare was on the shelf for a sore knee.
 

Once Odom comes back, I can see a much better finish for the Lakers this season, and in as few as two years from now, when the Dallas, the Spurs, and the Suns start to fade, the Lakers will be right back on top.

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/courtside/archives/2007/10/jeff_mcdonald_d_1.html
Dream on.