Here is a good thread starter...

[Lurker]

One writer's opinion of all-time NBA team.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/dreamteams/08/14/nba.alltime/index.html

FRONTCOURT
 SF | Larry Bird | Boston Celtics (1979-92)
More athletic in the open court over the first half of his career than legend has it, Bird was a threat to score or assist from any spot on the floor. He is arguably the greatest clutch shooter in history. 
 PF | Tim Duncan | San Antonio Spurs (1997-present)
The greatest power forward in history, he has become the Bill Russell of his generation. In an era when power forward is the NBA's best position, Duncan is at the top of the list as the league's most versatile player at both ends of the court. 
 C | Bill Russell | Boston Celtics (1956-69)
Eleven championships in 13 years, including eight in a row. He invented the blocked shot and established the precedent that rings were more important than scoring titles. Russell is far and away the most important and influential player in the history of the game.


BACKCOURT
 PG | Magic Johnson | Los Angeles Lakers (1979-91, '95-96)
With an unprecedented blend of size, open-floor athleticism and leadership, he led the Lakers to five championships and nine NBA Finals in 12 years -- a run that is second only to Russell's.
 SG | Michael Jordan | Chicago Bulls (1984-93, '94-98), Washington Wizards (2001-03)
He led the league in scoring each of the six years that he led the Bulls to a championship. Only George Mikan (twice, in 1949-50 and '51-52), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (1970-71) and Shaquille O'Neal (1999-2000) have been able to pull off that trick.

COACH
 Coach | Red Auerbach | Washington Capitols (1946-49), Tri-Cities Blackhawks (1949-50), Boston Celtics (1950-66)
I'm going with Red on the basis of originality and courage, for putting forth the first all-black starting five in racist Boston. His relationships with players set the standard for future generations of coaches, as did his offensive and defensive systems. Phil Jackson has faced an entirely different set of circumstances in his era, and has done practically as well -- so no argument here for those who would prefer to put Jackson in this chair.

RESERVES
POSITION PLAYER
C Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Shaquille O'Neal
F Bob Pettit, John Havlicek
G Oscar Robertson, Jerry West, Bob Cousy

[Lurker]

Some notable exceptions...

Wilt (where's Pro when you need him)
Kobe
Dr J
Round Mound
Hakeem

I'm sure there are more but for just off the top of my head...

[rickortreat]

There are a lot more names that need to be considered.

Moses Malone
Kevin McHale
Rick Barry
James Worthy

But leaving Wilt off the list is crazy.

[westkoast]

There are a lot more names that need to be considered.

Moses Malone
Kevin McHale
Rick Barry
James Worthy

But leaving Wilt off the list is crazy.

As players coming off the bench?  I love James Worthy like a relative (lol) but no way he should play in place of Larry Bird.

Leaving Wilt off the list is crazy.  I'd toss Kareem in there but as good as Cap was I don't know if it would be a half way decent debate to compare his dominance to Wilt or Bill.

What about World B Free?   Who would be the back up for Timmy?  Karl Malone?

[rickortreat]

To tell you the truth, I think Moses Malone would outwork and outplay every other Center on the list assuming they were all at their peak going head to head.  Wilt was an absolute beast, but Moses was a monster.

As players coming off the bench?  I love James Worthy like a relative (lol) but no way he should play in place of Larry Bird.

No, but I'd put him ahead of Havlicek or Pettit, and I'd put McHale ahead of those two as well.  Seriously, no PF in the game had better post up moves than McHale.  Rick Barry was a better outside shooter than any of them, with the possible exception of Bird.

I'm quite sure I could come up with enough names to make a second team that would beat that first team, especially with a tag team of Moses and Wilt, McHale and Dr. J at the forward spots, Nate Archibald at the point and a healthy Andrew Toney.  Worthy, Barry and Wilt off the bench.  They would score at will and never give up a rebound.

[WayOutWest]

The only name I would DEFINATELY change is Russel.  I'd put Kareem in his place.  Since this is a team for "all time", no way a 6'9 center can hold his own against a modern era player.  Wilt routinely destroyed him even though the Celts would typically win.  Wilt was a liability at the FT line and I don't think he was much of a defender, Kareem has him beat at both.

The only other name I would consider changing is Bird, you already have one defensive liability in Magic, why ad another.  Hard to find a guy who had Bird's range and ice water blood so maybe it's a moot point.

[Joe Vancil]

Quoted from WayOutWest:

Since this is a team for "all time", no way a 6'9 center can hold his own against a modern era player.

...*cough* Ben Wallace *cough*

I think you need to leave Russell right where he is.  Bird/Erving is worth a slight debate, but otherwise, the starters are exactly who they need to be.

[WayOutWest]

Quoted from WayOutWest:

Since this is a team for "all time", no way a 6'9 center can hold his own against a modern era player.

...*cough* Ben Wallace *cough*

I think you need to leave Russell right where he is.  Bird/Erving is worth a slight debate, but otherwise, the starters are exactly who they need to be.

Wallace would get creamed like Russel got creamed by Wilt.  The closest I've seen to a small center guarding a big modern center is Moses, Zo and Hakeem.  Russel didn't have the bulk that those guys had, he would get killed.  With Kareem you don't worry about anything and any era, to date that is, he has no weakness.  He's the greatest center of all time and I would want him on my "all time" team.

[Joe Vancil]

You miss my point.  Ben Wallace is considered the defensive stud of this time, and he's FAR from getting "creamed" by "modern era" players.  And, of course, he's 6-9.

My point is that if Wallace can do it, I don't see why Russell COULDN'T.

And it's not that Abdul-Jabbar is an unworthy candidate.  In my opinion, he's the second-greatest player of all time.  It's just the fact that you're bumping aside the greatest player in favor of him.

[WayOutWest]

And it's not that Abdul-Jabbar is an unworthy candidate.  In my opinion, he's the second-greatest player of all time.  It's just the fact that you're bumping aside the greatest player in favor of him.

I'm bumping the greatest winner of all time for the greatest center of all time.  Russel was not as bulky as the other guys I mentioned, including Wallace and both were pretty much one demensional players.  If you want the greatest team of all time it should have the greatest player at each and every position.  Wallace would do little if nothing against the best centers of all time in their prime.  Each and every player on the roster could win a game on the floor or at the line with the possible exception of TD at the FT line.  The only defensive liabilities on the roster are Magic and Bird but I'm not sure who I'd replace them with and not give up a ton of other stuff.  Magic and Bird had that "winner" mystique that would carry a team beyond thier individual defensive and physical limits.  No big man dominated a game like Mikam and Russel but that wouldn't carry over into the modern era.

[Joe Vancil]

You keep saying that Russell wouldn't carry over to the modern era, and I keep pointing to the fact that players like Ben Wallace are out there, and successful.  If they're successful, I don't see why a legendary player with better intelligence, a greater drive, superior leadership skills, and a history of performing his biggest in clutch games WOULDN'T be.

I'm not saying Russell is going to average 25 rebounds a game...just that he'd be right in line to lead the league.

Winning is a skill, itself, and winners in one era will translate to being winners in another era.  And it's the type of skill that separates the "legend in their own mind" players like Joe "Jellybean" Bryant from the Birds and Ervings.

[WayOutWest]

You keep saying that Russell wouldn't carry over to the modern era, and I keep pointing to the fact that players like Ben Wallace are out there, and successful.  If they're successful, I don't see why a legendary player with better intelligence, a greater drive, superior leadership skills, and a history of performing his biggest in clutch games WOULDN'T be.

Who has Wallace gone up against in their prime.  Fat Shaq owned him, don't know how he's done against TD so I don't think Wallace would do well against the best of the best at the 5 spot.  I wouldn't worry about that with Kareem patrolling the middle. Again, Russel did not have the bulk size that guys like Wallace and Malone had so he's not going to do as well as those guys when he has to muscle up against big centers.

Winning is a skill, itself, and winners in one era will translate to being winners in another era.  And it's the type of skill that separates the "legend in their own mind" players like Joe "Jellybean" Bryant from the Birds and Ervings.

Pwaak....same point I made with Magic and Bird, do you want a cracker?

[Skandery]

WOW, its time to put the peace pipe down and start comprehending those big words coming at you from the screen.

Bill Russell wasn't big enough and didn't have all those muscles you say and couldn't body up against the "blowed up" modern era Center.  Hmmmm.  I've heard people argue until they're blue in the face that Wilt Chamberlain was the strongest man of any player in any generation in the history of the game.  Bill Russell bodied up against "The Big Dipper" well enough to beat him year after year after year after year.

Old and decrepit, Russell still took it to so-called Mr. Strongest Man Ever.  In Game 7 of 1967-68 ECF at the age of 34, he held Chamberlain to 2 shot attempts in the entire 2nd half and up only 97-95 with 30 seconds left, made the foul shot, made the ensuing block which bounced to a Sixer, grabbed the defensive rebound from the miss, and made the ensuing assist to Jones for the 100-96 victory.  Jerry West stated to the media after getting beat for the 5th straight time in the NBA Finals later that year, “If I had a choice of any basketball player in the league, my No.1 choice has to be Bill Russell. Bill Russell never ceases to amaze me.”  The next year in the Finals, at age 35, he grabbed 21 rebounds in Game 7 against the Chamberlain-led Lakers and beat them for the 6th straight time. 

We're talking the greatest defensive center in the history of basketball and you don't think if you put him in today's world of training programs, 5 and 6 fitness coaches, countless trainers and training regimens, better organization of the game at younger and younger ages, that he wouldn't grow up to STILL be the greatest defensive center in the history of basketball. 

Would Pele get beat up on in World Cup 2010 because today's soccer player is faster and stronger?  Would Muhammed Ali get pounded by the likes of De La Hoya, Meriweather, and Lewis?  Would Babe Ruth be a roster after-thought struggling in Triple A Baseball?  I say NO, just like Bill Russell wouldn't have too much trouble against what we try to pass off for All-Star Centers these days -- Dwight Howard, Amare, Shaq, Yao Ming, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, and Jamaal Magloire.  Speaking of which, WHO did Shaq do it against anyway--Rik Smits, Jason Collins, Erick Dampier, oh yeah an over-the-hill Dikembe Mutombo.  Russell did it against the most dominant offensive big man in history well into his mid-30s!  What has Shaq done the past two years (at the ages of 33 and 34), oh yeah, struggle to get to 60 games.

[WayOutWest]

WOW, its time to put the peace pipe down and start comprehending those big words coming at you from the screen.

I guess school is out for you to be posting in a big boy thread.

Bill Russell wasn't big enough and didn't have all those muscles you say and couldn't body up against the "blowed up" modern era Center.  Hmmmm.  I've heard people argue until they're blue in the face that Wilt Chamberlain was the strongest man of any player in any generation in the history of the game.  Bill Russell bodied up against "The Big Dipper" well enough to beat him year after year after year after year.

The Stilt OWNED Russel, he routinely had his way with Bill but the 5 HOF'ers on the Celtics would win the game.  Why do I bother repeating myself, you just wasted a whole pragraph arguing a point I already addressed.  Get with it, this is not an MSNBC board.

Old and decrepit, Russell still took it to so-called Mr. Strongest Man Ever.  In Game 7 of 1967-68 ECF at the age of 34, he held Chamberlain to 2 shot attempts in the entire 2nd half and up only 97-95 with 30 seconds left, made the foul shot, made the ensuing block which bounced to a Sixer, grabbed the defensive rebound from the miss, and made the ensuing assist to Jones for the 100-96 victory.  Jerry West stated to the media after getting beat for the 5th straight time in the NBA Finals later that year, “If I had a choice of any basketball player in the league, my No.1 choice has to be Bill Russell. Bill Russell never ceases to amaze me.”  The next year in the Finals, at age 35, he grabbed 21 rebounds in Game 7 against the Chamberlain-led Lakers and beat them for the 6th straight time.

 

The game where Wilt faked an injury because they were losing so bad?  The game where the Laker coach refused to put Wilt in after the Lakers closed the gap?  Because Wilt was heartless is why I don't consider him the greatest center of all time, that honor goes to Kareem.

We're talking the greatest defensive center in the history of basketball and you don't think if you put him in today's world of training programs, 5 and 6 fitness coaches, countless trainers and training regimens, better organization of the game at younger and younger ages, that he wouldn't grow up to STILL be the greatest defensive center in the history of basketball.

 

I cant' stand when a decent debate gets ruined by "what if" garbage.  We are talking about an "all time" team with players "as is".  If we want to play the "what if" game then if Shaq made his FT and stayed in Shape, Russel wouldn't have the right to sniff Shaq's jock, Shaq would dominate for 15 years strait and break Russel's ring record.

Would Pele get beat up on in World Cup 2010 because today's soccer player is faster and stronger?  Would Muhammed Ali get pounded by the likes of De La Hoya, Meriweather, and Lewis?  Would Babe Ruth be a roster after-thought struggling in Triple A Baseball?  I say NO, just like Bill Russell wouldn't have too much trouble against what we try to pass off for All-Star Centers these days -- Dwight Howard, Amare, Shaq, Yao Ming, Zydrunas Ilgauskas, and Jamaal Magloire.  Speaking of which, WHO did Shaq do it against anyway--Rik Smits, Jason Collins, Erick Dampier, oh yeah an over-the-hill Dikembe Mutombo.  Russell did it against the most dominant offensive big man in history well into his mid-30s!  What has Shaq done the past two years (at the ages of 33 and 34), oh yeah, struggle to get to 60 games.

I can't speak for all those players but YES some/most/all would have problem with the increase in speed and athleticism in the modern game.  And why are you bringing up Shaq competition?  Stay on point, you are acting like Reality and every other red herring debater on this board.  All I said was FAT Shaq owned Wallace, I was questioning who Wallace has really gone up against.  A better argument would be Zo, he was to Shaq was Russel was to Wilt, and undersized defensive center doing his best to hold his own against a monster.

[Skandery]

I guess school is out for you to be posting in a big boy thread

I wish I took Spanish in high school so I could write in a language you might understand.

The Stilt OWNED Russel, he routinely had his way with Bill but the 5 HOF'ers on the Celtics would win the game.  Why do I bother repeating myself, you just wasted a whole pragraph arguing a point I already addressed.  Get with it, this is not an MSNBC board.

Yeah that's right, the OTHER 5 HOFs beat the stilt.  Yeah I forgot, Cousy was the one guarding Wilt.  I remember when 6 foot 3 Sharman was blocking Wilt's shot.  That's right bench warming HOFer K.C. Jones was beating Wilt all those times.  Listen carefully because I'm really sick of repeating this over and over--half those Celtic jokers on that roster wouldn't have been allowed IN the building that houses the HOF much less get voted if they didn't play on Bill Russell's team.  You want to know the difference between "Stilt" and the greatest player of all time--Russell made 7 ppg bench scum like K.C. Jones a Hall of Famer while Mr. Stilt couldn't make 18 ppg starting STUD Chet Walker one.  That's the difference!

The game where Wilt faked an injury because they were losing so bad?  The game where the Laker coach refused to put Wilt in after the Lakers closed the gap?  Because Wilt was heartless is why I don't consider him the greatest center of all time, that honor goes to Kareem.

We're talking GAME 7 OF THE GOSHDARN, FREAKIN' NBA FREAKIN FINALS!!!  If as you keep repeating Stilt OWNED Bill Russell why did Russell always, always, ALWAYS get the best of him while fools like you keep whining, crying, and using excuses about coaching decisions and fake injuries and how heartless Wilt was.  FACT:  GAME 7 FINALS, make-or-break time.  FACT:  Russell made Wilt his little girl even though he was 2 years older.

I cant' stand when a decent debate gets ruined by "what if" garbage.  We are talking about an "all time" team with players "as is".

Fine we'll play it your way.  If Aliens abducted Russell in 1960, cryogenically froze him until now, released him back into today's NBA, he'd STILL be a lock for 5 or 6 straight Defensive Player of the Year awards and his team would be in Finals contention every single year until he retired.  That's right Bill Russell "as is" would still dominate.

All I said was FAT Shaq owned Wallace

Yeah I remember just how much he absolutely OWNED the crap out him in the 2004 NBA Finals.  Come again.  Oh yeah, it was all of Detroit's HOF players that beat Shaq that year. 

A better argument would be Zo, he was to Shaq was Russel was to Wilt, and undersized defensive center doing his best to hold his own against a monster.

You're comparing Russell to Zo, are you comparing Russell to Zo, am I here, is this happening, is this man comparing Zo to Russell.  ZO!! Russell!!  Are you comparing Zo to Rus...Zo!! Zo!! Are you serious!! 

I'm at a loss . . . 
. . . how do you argue with a guy whose comparing the greatest defensive player in history with a player who couldn't get past the Sprewell-Houston Knicks in the first round while losing a girly slap-fight to Grand Mama!!