The sweet and innocent Suns in pictorial

[westkoast]

Waahhh waaahhh waaahhh.   The only one were the Suns suckered anything was the Raja Bell drawing an O foul on Finley, that was clearly PHX playing the refs and being dirty.  The Nash trip on Bowen was a bad
call, a ref problem, not a Suns dirty play.  All the rest was a bunch of flopping Spurs trying to draw calls, and sometimes they got away with it so they were the ones playing dirty.

One unbiased mans opinion anyway.

Ziggy while I don't think you are bias in any one direction it doesn't quite sound objective when you make it sound as if the Spurs did all the flopping and the Suns only had two cheap plays.  The Suns flopped more last night then the Spurs did by a 2 to 1 margin at least.

I don't think of flopping as necessarily dirty play. Annoying, yes, very. And the Suns players, particularly Nash, is pretty good at it, and I keep expecting the refs to do more about it, but then, as these plays show, and....um....similar plays on the part of the Spurs (some of which are also included here), maybe the refs, in general, ARE ignoring obvious flops.     

I wouldn't say it is dirty but it is cheap.  One could argue it could be considered borderline dirty in some cases because you can seriously injure players by doing it.  Running under players as they are about to jump into the air can really do some damage.  I've seen Nash do this several times this series.

Also, Parker got slammed while in the air  just as hard as Steve Nash did against the scorers table.  One is just a hard foul and one is super cheap and dirty.  I'd personally say that any excessive force when it comes to fouling a player on purpose is dirty.  Whether they are running up the court or if they are going for a layup.  The Spurs are labeled as cheap and dirty but not the Suns, once again. 

If the Spurs play cheap and dirty then I think one would have to say the same about the Suns.  The Horry checking of Nash is not nearly as dirty as Raja Bell trying to take Kobe's head off.  That seems to keep being overlooked when calling the Spurs cheap and dirty but the Suns are poor defenseless guys just trying to play clean, proper basketball.

[JoMal]

Here's another one for you Skander...

Bowen...in one video angle only...is accused of kicking Amare.  Who didn't even complain until after some video coordinater showed him that specific shot.

Nash uses the same foot action to trip Bowen.



Bowen is a nasty villian.
Nash was just tangling up feet.

Guess how you read the situation depends on which team the media pulls for...

This is great.

Comparing Bruce Bowen, who has a legacy of "dirty" video stretching from SA to Tahita - with Steve Nash, who has won the last two MVP's before this year and has ended up more often then not bloodied and sprawled on the court as much from his own efforts as well as the Spurs.

And please explain to me how a virtually stationary player who moves under an opposing player as he jumps, is the same "foot action" of two players running in the same direction, and with the lead runner (Bowen) seemingly jockeying into the same space as the other runner (Nash)?

And, as pointed out, Nash WAS called for a foul on that play. He did not grab at Bowen, though Bowen at first looked like he was grabbing at Nash, and no other action seems warranted from that play.

Why don't you just plaster this board with video of every call and non-call made in this series that you think should have been handled differently and did not favor the Spurs?

[JoMal]

So now the entire Spurs squad is not classy and everyone on it is dirty, cheap?

If that is the case then everyone on the Suns are whiners, play very cheap, wussy and make dirty plays in their own right.

See I have no problem with people saying Bowen and Horry are dirty/cheap...they have a right to say that.  I do have a problem with the Suns not getting the same treatment as far as being labeled as a whole for what a few players have done.

edit: My GF does not watch basketball unless I force her to do so. When she saw the 'running up bowen's leg play' she turned to me and asked "What do you call that move in soccer that players do to try to trip the other?"  So I don't think it is just Lurker who saw it that way.  My GF is an engineer and never lived in Texas a day in her life so you can't lump her in with slow Texas residents 

It is the retaliation "soccer" move to the move made by the other player who is trying to impede the process of the first player running to his end of the court. Bowen probably was just trying to get in Nash's way and Nash pulled the ole soccer tripperuny on him.

[Lurker]

Here's another one for you Skander...

Bowen...in one video angle only...is accused of kicking Amare.  Who didn't even complain until after some video coordinater showed him that specific shot.

Nash uses the same foot action to trip Bowen.



Bowen is a nasty villian.
Nash was just tangling up feet.

Guess how you read the situation depends on which team the media pulls for...

This is great.

Comparing Bruce Bowen, who has a legacy of "dirty" video stretching from SA to Tahita - with Steve Nash, who has won the last two MVP's before this year and has ended up more often then not bloodied and sprawled on the court as much from his own efforts as well as the Spurs.

And please explain to me how a virtually stationary player who moves under an opposing player as he jumps, is the same "foot action" of two players running in the same direction, and with the lead runner (Bowen) seemingly jockeying into the same space as the other runner (Nash)?

And, as pointed out, Nash WAS called for a foul on that play. He did not grab at Bowen, though Bowen at first looked like he was grabbing at Nash, and no other action seems warranted from that play.

Yes, the foot actions were similar.  Planting of the left foot while running and swinging the right foot in an arcing motion to clip the back of the ankle.  But then, like I said, it all depends on which team you are backing.

Why don't you just plaster this board with video of every call and non-call made in this series that you think should have been handled differently and did not favor the Spurs?

Rising to your hyperbole would be fun but I'm NOT that bored today.

[westkoast]

 Bowen probably was just trying to get in Nash's way and Nash pulled the ole soccer tripperuny on him.

Right...And Horry was just trying to get a blocking foul on Nash but decided to change his mind last minute like he said at shoot around today 

[JoMal]

The Spurs are labeled as cheap and dirty but not the Suns, once again. 

If the Spurs play cheap and dirty then I think one would have to say the same about the Suns.  The Horry checking of Nash is not nearly as dirty as Raja Bell trying to take Kobe's head off.  That seems to keep being overlooked when calling the Spurs cheap and dirty but the Suns are poor defenseless guys just trying to play clean, proper basketball.

That doesn't make sense.

Are you saying the experienced and superiorly rough Spurs are no match for the more subtle and frail little Suns when it comes to being noticed for dirty play?

How can that be?

[westkoast]

The Spurs are labeled as cheap and dirty but not the Suns, once again. 

If the Spurs play cheap and dirty then I think one would have to say the same about the Suns.  The Horry checking of Nash is not nearly as dirty as Raja Bell trying to take Kobe's head off.  That seems to keep being overlooked when calling the Spurs cheap and dirty but the Suns are poor defenseless guys just trying to play clean, proper basketball.

That doesn't make sense.

Are you saying the experienced and superiorly rough Spurs are no match for the more subtle and frail little Suns when it comes to being noticed for dirty play?

How can that be?

Ask the media and all the people who are painting the Spurs as the legion of doom and the Suns as the super friends.

I can name a number of cheap and dirty plays from the Suns, Raja Bell has been a dirty and cheap player forever.  Just the same as people are saying about Bruce Bowen.  How is it possible to single out Bruce Bowen for dirty and cheap plays but not Raja Bell?

[JoMal]

Yes, the foot actions were similar.  Planting of the left foot while running and swinging the right foot in an arcing motion to clip the back of the ankle.  But then, like I said, it all depends on which team you are backing.

No, they are not similar, but I guess there is no point in discussing that one any further.

But on your second comment, you are the perfect example of that statement being 100% correct. It does not apply to me in this case, obviously, but I am very glad you can say that without, you know, sounding hypercritical or anything.  

Rising to your hyperbole would be fun but I'm NOT that bored today.

Well, that's boring.

[Lurker]

Yes, the foot actions were similar.  Planting of the left foot while running and swinging the right foot in an arcing motion to clip the back of the ankle.  But then, like I said, it all depends on which team you are backing.

No, they are not similar, but I guess there is no point in discussing that one any further.

But on your second comment, you are the perfect example of that statement being 100% correct. It does not apply to me in this case, obviously, but I am very glad you can say that without, you know, sounding hypercritical or anything.  

I guess if I was denial about who I want to advance then I could agree with you.

And I'm not sure how the plays are different except Nash did it to someone who was running and Bowen did it to someone who was jumping.  Bowen's victim landed and didn't complain until hours later.  Nash's victim went sprawling on his face.  But the foot actions were similar.

[JoMal]

The Spurs are labeled as cheap and dirty but not the Suns, once again. 

If the Spurs play cheap and dirty then I think one would have to say the same about the Suns.  The Horry checking of Nash is not nearly as dirty as Raja Bell trying to take Kobe's head off.  That seems to keep being overlooked when calling the Spurs cheap and dirty but the Suns are poor defenseless guys just trying to play clean, proper basketball.

That doesn't make sense.

Are you saying the experienced and superiorly rough Spurs are no match for the more subtle and frail little Suns when it comes to being noticed for dirty play?

How can that be?

Ask the media and all the people who are painting the Spurs as the legion of doom and the Suns as the super friends.

I can name a number of cheap and dirty plays from the Suns, Raja Bell has been a dirty and cheap player forever.  Just the same as people are saying about Bruce Bowen.  How is it possible to single out Bruce Bowen for dirty and cheap plays but not Raja Bell?

So who, exactly, made this decision, and when, to single out the dirty Spurs' plays and players, and let Bell's clearly equal antics go unnoticed and unpunished? Seems like a conspiracy of some sort to me.

If only the Spurs would stop playing into the hands of the media hordes.  

[Skandery]

The Spurs are labeled as cheap and dirty but not the Suns, once again.

 

I don't know why the Suns aren't perceived as whiny, little, dirty, filthy players by everyone in the media and in the world.  They are so cheap, disgustingly filthy, very physical, extremely nasty and are always out there to hurt somebody, foul people really hard, and in general slow the game down to a defensive halt.

The basketball the Phoenix Suns have played since they've signed Nash three seasons ago has been nothing but absolute filth, just dirty physical play.  Just rough, street ball.  A game with the Suns is nothing but bumps, bruises, bodies on the floor, and hard fouls.  The physical play the Suns play with has been unparalleled in the history of basketball.  I'd wager that the souls of Rick Mahorn and Dennis Rodman have been resurrected into Shawn Marion and Raja Bell.

You're so dead on with that westkoast.  EVERYONE IN THE WORLD IS BLIND!!!  

--give me a friggin' break!!!


If a bully punches you in the face and takes your lunch money and you take a bat to his kneecaps and break his legs, whose to blame for that harmonious relationship.  

There is only one team with a reputation for physical play and that is San Antonio (and deservedly so).  The Suns have done nothing but respond in kind and have lost the battle fought on the terms the Spurs have set!  Call the Spurs geniuses, call them champions, exalt their win-at-all-costs methods, but don't expect the neutrals out here to pat them on the back for those methods.        

[JoMal]

I guess if I was denial about who I want to advance then I could agree with you.

And I'm not sure how the plays are different except Nash did it to someone who was running and Bowen did it to someone who was jumping.  Bowen's victim landed and didn't complain until hours later.  Nash's victim went sprawling on his face.  But the foot actions were similar.

I said I wouldn't do this, but I guess I have to.

Bowen ran under Stoudemire and his foot clipped the back of Amare's ankle in the process as he was coming down from jumping. The only negative thing to say about it is that Bowen tends to be in those positions an inordinately large number of times, because otherwise it looked like a basketball play you see every day.

Nash was trying to run behind Bowen to cross to the middle of the court and his right thigh clipped the back (left) leg of Bowen, around his knee and calf, which threw him off balance.

I just can't see the similarity between these two actions.  It hardly should be called a soccer move either, since that usually involves ankles and this did not.   

Oh, and if you are doing some sort of tit for tat, "So YOU are hypercritical, so what am I" allegation, don't bother.

Why, you ask?

I am so glad you did.

I will keep saying it to begin every one of my post, I DO NOT CARE WHO WINS THIS SERIES, period.

[JoMal]

The Spurs are labeled as cheap and dirty but not the Suns, once again.

 

I don't know why the Suns aren't perceived as whiny, little, dirty, filthy players by everyone in the media and in the world.  They are so cheap, disgustingly filthy, very physical, extremely nasty and are always out there to hurt somebody, foul people really hard, and in general slow the game down to a defensive halt.

The basketball the Phoenix Suns have played since they've signed Nash three seasons ago has been nothing but absolute filth, just dirty physical play.  Just rough, street ball.  A game with the Suns is nothing but bumps, bruises, bodies on the floor, and hard fouls.  The physical play the Suns play with has been unparalleled in the history of basketball.  I'd wager that the souls of Rick Mahorn and Dennis Rodman have been resurrected into Shawn Marion and Raja Bell.

You're so dead on with that westkoast.  EVERYONE IN THE WORLD IS BLIND!!!  

--give me a friggin' break!!!


If a bully punches you in the face and takes your lunch money and you take a bat to his kneecaps and break his legs, whose to blame for that harmonious relationship.  

There is only one team with a reputation for physical play and that is San Antonio (and deservedly so).  The Suns have done nothing but respond in kind and have lost the battle fought on the terms the Spurs have set!  Call the Spurs geniuses, call them champions, exalt their win-at-all-costs methods, but don't expect the neutrals out here to pat them on the back for those methods.        

Skandery -

You are getting very good at this.

Nice work.

[westkoast]

The Spurs are labeled as cheap and dirty but not the Suns, once again.

 

I don't know why the Suns aren't perceived as whiny, little, dirty, filthy players by everyone in the media and in the world.  They are so cheap, disgustingly filthy, very physical, extremely nasty and are always out there to hurt somebody, foul people really hard, and in general slow the game down to a defensive halt.

The basketball the Phoenix Suns have played since they've signed Nash three seasons ago has been nothing but absolute filth, just dirty physical play.  Just rough, street ball.  A game with the Suns is nothing but bumps, bruises, bodies on the floor, and hard fouls.  The physical play the Suns play with has been unparalleled in the history of basketball.  I'd wager that the souls of Rick Mahorn and Dennis Rodman have been resurrected into Shawn Marion and Raja Bell.

You're so dead on with that westkoast.  EVERYONE IN THE WORLD IS BLIND!!!   

--give me a friggin' break!!!


If a bully punches you in the face and takes your lunch money and you take a bat to his kneecaps and break his legs, whose to blame for that harmonious relationship. 

There is only one team with a reputation for physical play and that is San Antonio (and deservedly so).  The Suns have done nothing but respond in kind and have lost the battle fought on the terms the Spurs have set!  Call the Spurs geniuses, call them champions, exalt their win-at-all-costs methods, but don't expect the neutrals out here to pat them on the back for those methods.       

Oh so that is what it is....

If someone has done something to you it makes it okay.  Gotcha.  Hopefully we see Tim Duncan come out in the next game and abuse Kurt Thomas because he has been doing the same to Tim Duncan.  I'd like to know when Parker slammed Marion to the ground in mid air that caused him to 'return the favor'.   If I undercut you on a play Skander and then you turn around to do the same thing doesn't mean it is not dirty, it just means an eye for an eye.  That is it.  Still dirty no matter how you want to slice it.    So you are not exactly saying much in the longest post I've ever seen you make.  As far as all suns this or all spurs that...you are further proving the point I am trying to make.  Raja Bell is a dirty player but the Suns are not dirty as a whole.  You can call Bruce Bowen a dirty player but to say all the Spurs are dirty is a joke.  How the entire Spurs team turned into the Detroit Pistons of '89 because of one MAYBE play (Bowen's foot placement) and one HARD foul boggles my mind.  That is why I brought up Raja Bell's closeline (which is not debatable) and Marion's slamming of Parker.  Should we paint all the Suns as thugs because of those two plays?

Didn't realize I was a raving Spurs fan and before someone says I clearly don't want the Suns to advance because they beat my team...not only did I expect them to beat my team I thought the Spurs would beat them in the second round before the playoffs even started.  Lurker and I use to battle it out on the board long before you guys decided to jump on the Spurs.  In fact it kind of reminds me how everything one team does it magnified a million times and the other kind of gets overlooked.  Us Laker fans know exactly how Lurker feels right now 

[Reality]

Waahhh waaahhh waaahhh.   The only one were the Suns suckered anything was the Raja Bell drawing an O foul on Finley, that was clearly PHX playing the refs and being dirty.  One unbiased mans opinion anyway.

zig,
I may have given you and Jomal the impression Spurs or I were now complaining about the Suns, wanting the exact same calls they got.  In fact the Spurs (Horry and Pop) were quoted as saying they did not want Stoudamire or Diaw suspended.  The Youtube video is to show the Suns are complaining about the Spurs, yet doing virtually the same exact plays as the Spurs.

Nash was trying to run behind Bowen to cross to the middle of the court and his right thigh clipped the back (left) leg of Bowen, around his knee and calf, which threw him off balance. 

Reality:  Objection, fabrication.
Judge:  Sustained.  Mr Jomal keep your scope within 4 legged critters not flying please.

One thing we call all concur on.  Eliminate flopping, take up hockeys stance to severely penalize the flopper.  Sure it will never be 100% right but moves like Bell pulled and Manu regularly pulls, please.  It is ironic Bells Flagrant 3 flop was vs Manu.