The sweet and innocent Suns in pictorial

[Reality]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoAXg2pOG5s

Esp the Nash trip. 

[ziggy]

Waahhh waaahhh waaahhh.   The only one were the Suns suckered anything was the Raja Bell drawing an O foul on Finley, that was clearly PHX playing the refs and being dirty. 

The Nash trip "by" Bowen (where Nash basically fell down with virtually no contact) was a bad call, a ref problem, not a Suns dirty play.  The one where Nash tripped Bowen, was a foul on Nash, and a foul was called on Nash, and Nash deserved a foul, but IMHO it was not a deliberate trip trying to play dirty by Nash.

All the rest was a bunch of flopping Spurs trying to draw calls, and sometimes they got away with it so they were the ones playing dirty.

One unbiased mans opinion anyway.


*******   Nite I made a clarification above one the 2 Nash/Bowen plays   *********

[westkoast]

Waahhh waaahhh waaahhh.   The only one were the Suns suckered anything was the Raja Bell drawing an O foul on Finley, that was clearly PHX playing the refs and being dirty.  The Nash trip on Bowen was a bad
call, a ref problem, not a Suns dirty play.  All the rest was a bunch of flopping Spurs trying to draw calls, and sometimes they got away with it so they were the ones playing dirty.

One unbiased mans opinion anyway.

Ziggy while I don't think you are bias in any one direction it doesn't quite sound objective when you make it sound as if the Spurs did all the flopping and the Suns only had two cheap plays.  The Suns flopped more last night then the Spurs did by a 2 to 1 margin at least.

[Reality]

Waahhh waaahhh waaahhh.   The only one were the Suns suckered anything was the Raja Bell drawing an O foul on Finley, that was clearly PHX playing the refs and being dirty.  The Nash trip on Bowen was a bad
call, a ref problem, not a Suns dirty play.  All the rest was a bunch of flopping Spurs trying to draw calls, and sometimes they got away with it so they were the ones playing dirty.

One unbiased mans opinion anyway.

Nash trip was not a dirty play?
Not where i come from.

[ziggy]

Waahhh waaahhh waaahhh.   The only one were the Suns suckered anything was the Raja Bell drawing an O foul on Finley, that was clearly PHX playing the refs and being dirty.  The Nash trip on Bowen was a bad
call, a ref problem, not a Suns dirty play.  All the rest was a bunch of flopping Spurs trying to draw calls, and sometimes they got away with it so they were the ones playing dirty.

One unbiased mans opinion anyway.

Ziggy while I don't think you are bias in any one direction it doesn't quite sound objective when you make it sound as if the Spurs did all the flopping and the Suns only had two cheap plays.  The Suns flopped more last night then the Spurs did by a 2 to 1 margin at least.

Looking at the video, I didn't see a bunch of dirty play by the Suns.  Maybe it was a little physical, but from the video provided I didn't see a bunch of dirty play by the Suns.  I thought the Spurs were doing a lot of flopping (as did Raja Bell), and that the bumping and banging wasn't all that bad, but the Spurs were on the floor everytime there was a little contact.  A little contact is not dirty play by the Suns.

[ziggy]

Waahhh waaahhh waaahhh.   The only one were the Suns suckered anything was the Raja Bell drawing an O foul on Finley, that was clearly PHX playing the refs and being dirty.  The Nash trip on Bowen was a bad
call, a ref problem, not a Suns dirty play.  All the rest was a bunch of flopping Spurs trying to draw calls, and sometimes they got away with it so they were the ones playing dirty.

One unbiased mans opinion anyway.

Nash trip was not a dirty play?
Not where i come from.

Like I said it was one mans opinion.  They got tangled up, big deal.  You will need to do a lot more than show me that video to convince me that Nash deliberately tried to trip Bowen in a dirty way on that play.  I just don't see how that was some smoking gun about how the Suns are playing dirty.   Reality read my initial post, as there were 2 Nash/Bowen plays, and I modified my original post to clarify what I was referring to.

[Lurker]

Ziggy....first off I agree that video was footage of mostly solid playoff basketball. 

However if one were to dissect Nash's foot actions in the same split-second by split-second detail that is applied to Bowen's actions then you see him stick his foot slightly forward kicking at Bowen's feet (a solid soccer move designed to trip your opponent).  But of course Nash can't be dirty because he is a 2 time MVP.  And part of the good guys who are trying to knock off the big bad villians.

[Skandery]

And part of the good guys who are trying to knock off the big bad villians.

So now the Spurs are big bad villains?  Who is calling them that?  They've always been the wonderful little small market team that could.  What's changed?

[Lurker]

What's changed?

America's infatuation with Suns style basketball.

[Skandery]

So it was America's infatuation with Suns style basketball that got Amare kicked in the leg.  America's infatuation with Suns style basketball got Nash thrown to the scorer's table.  America's infatuation with Suns style basketball is I'm sure why poster's like Bods, Joe Vancil, JoMaL, etc. have denounced the cheap tactics and under the table filthiness that has consumed this series.  Journalists like Bill Simmons (a shameless Celtics/Clippers fan) and John Hollinger must be infatuated with Suns style basketball which is why they've focused on the dirty play of Bowen and villainy of the Spurs team.

My post 10 days ago in the "Almost game time" thread started by SPURSX3:

If its a slow, dirty, nasty, grimy, physical, ugly, defensive game than Phoenix obviously has no chance in the world.

I knew this and I'm sure Popovich and his staff knew this ere'go, go on out their and make this game slow, dirty, nasty, grimy, physical, ugly, and defensive Bruce, go on Robert, go ahead Manu, go on Timmy. 

The Spurs turned themselves into public enemy #1 and have nobody to blame but themselves for their tarnished image.  I had respect for the Spurs when they looked at a 62 win upstart Phoenix team 2 years ago and said we don't have to revert to thug tactics to pound you into the ground.  And pound Phoenix into the ground they did.  I can't stand behind this Spurs team that looks at this Phoenix team and says we have to pound you into the ground, literally, because if we just played basketball, we would probably lose.  Nothing having to do with anything about basketball but a malicious cheap shot will be the sole reason the Spurs will be remembered for having advanced and the reason for that is not America's infatuation with Suns style basketball but the Spurs own dishonorable methods.         

[Lurker]

And I say the Spurs are playing the same physical playoff game that they have for the past 7-8 years.  And up until this series they were not villians. 

So what has changed?

[JoMal]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoAXg2pOG5s

Esp the Nash trip. 

That type of one-sided propaganda would make the Bush administration proud.

Some of those were moving screens on the part of the Spurs, BTW. And the Nash/Bowen "soccor" move? Bowen has just thrown his left arm at Nash, bringing him (again), right into an opposing players' space, and Nash ran up his legs.

But I don't understand the topic here. THOSE are plays that you are accusing the Suns of doing that equate to "dirty" plays? I have seen worse contact at my family's Thanksgiving Day dinner table. 

[Lurker]

Here's another one for you Skander...

Bowen...in one video angle only...is accused of kicking Amare.  Who didn't even complain until after some video coordinater showed him that specific shot.

Nash uses the same foot action to trip Bowen.



Bowen is a nasty villian.
Nash was just tangling up feet.

Guess how you read the situation depends on which team the media pulls for...

[westkoast]

So now the entire Spurs squad is not classy and everyone on it is dirty, cheap?

If that is the case then everyone on the Suns are whiners, play very cheap, wussy and make dirty plays in their own right.

See I have no problem with people saying Bowen and Horry are dirty/cheap...they have a right to say that.  I do have a problem with the Suns not getting the same treatment as far as being labeled as a whole for what a few players have done.

edit: My GF does not watch basketball unless I force her to do so. When she saw the 'running up bowen's leg play' she turned to me and asked "What do you call that move in soccer that players do to try to trip the other?"  So I don't think it is just Lurker who saw it that way.  My GF is an engineer and never lived in Texas a day in her life so you can't lump her in with slow Texas residents 

[JoMal]

Waahhh waaahhh waaahhh.   The only one were the Suns suckered anything was the Raja Bell drawing an O foul on Finley, that was clearly PHX playing the refs and being dirty.  The Nash trip on Bowen was a bad
call, a ref problem, not a Suns dirty play.  All the rest was a bunch of flopping Spurs trying to draw calls, and sometimes they got away with it so they were the ones playing dirty.

One unbiased mans opinion anyway.

Ziggy while I don't think you are bias in any one direction it doesn't quite sound objective when you make it sound as if the Spurs did all the flopping and the Suns only had two cheap plays.  The Suns flopped more last night then the Spurs did by a 2 to 1 margin at least.

I don't think of flopping as necessarily dirty play. Annoying, yes, very. And the Suns players, particularly Nash, is pretty good at it, and I keep expecting the refs to do more about it, but then, as these plays show, and....um....similar plays on the part of the Spurs (some of which are also included here), maybe the refs, in general, ARE ignoring obvious flops.