Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?

[WayOutWest]

They weren't best players, they were MVP's and their teams were the best.  That's the way it works.

Oscar Robertson was the "best" player when his team didn't win anything in Cincinnati.  That's just the way it is.

Kobe has his fans, but even they know that inspite of the tremendous season he's had, that he has little chance of getting that MVP award.

I agree with all you points rick, ouch, I'm getting this burning sensation in the pit of my stomach.  There have been a few times in history when the MVP was also the best player.  MJ, Magic, Bird, Shaq, Dream? and Duncan are ones I can think of.  In the case of Shaq, Dream and TD they were also the most dominant.

IMO Nash is hands down the MVP of the league again.  You could take Dirk and Kobe off their teams and they would suffer greatly BUT with Nash the players would also suffer greatly cause he gets them some great looks and sets them up perfectly.  IMO TD is the closest to Nash in terms of "valuable" followed by Kobe and Dirk.

[rickortreat]

Oh Yeah?

Well, I agree with you too!

Except that I'm tired of Nash getting the award and think Dirk deserves it, since he has the better team.

Also, Nash isn't the MVP, because by definition you can't stop the MVP and the Spurs showed that they could stop him!

The real MVP is the guy that makes his team win, and is on the best team.  Right now, that team is Dallas and that guy is Dirk.  Dallas will win the Championship this year, unless someone can find a way to stop Dirk.

Without Kobe, this year the Lakers would be in the lottery.  He is the best scorer in the league and that makes him the best player.

TD is the Spurs MVP. They'd still be a good team without him, but they wouldn't be a serious contender.

The only team without an MVP might be the best one-Detroit.  You take out any one guy and that team will still beat you.

[Reality]

After reading through all this nonsense, I can't wait until both TD and Kobe retire. 

yes but by then you will be retired.  And who knows what that will bring.
Any foregleams?

[JoMal]

After reading through all this nonsense, I can't wait until both TD and Kobe retire. 

yes but by then you will be retired.  And who knows what that will bring.
Any foregleams?

I plan on foresaking clothes and only wearing strategically located cut-in-half basketballs until the Planet Dribble comes to take me away.

By then I will be wanting putting away.

[Derek Bodner]

The year said player was the "best", was he on a .500 team?

Michael Jordan didn't have a .500 team until his 4th year in the league.

Now, he didn't win an MVP until his 4th year, but his 3rd year he averaged 37 ppg, 5 rpg, 4.5 apg, was an all-star (he was an all-star his first 9 years in the league), and did make the all-nba first team his 3rd year.

[Reality]

84-85 rookie and while good, no where near Larry Bird.
85-86 injured 3 games in, only played 18 total.  Would have been at best 2nd to Bird.
86-87 the year you mention his 3rd, i would say yes perhaps best player in league on team that was 40-42.

Are you saying Jordan 3 is equivillent to Kobester 2005-6-7?

[WayOutWest]

84-85 rookie and while good, no where near Larry Bird.
85-86 injured 3 games in, only played 18 total.  Would have been at best 2nd to Bird.
86-87 the year you mention his 3rd, i would say yes perhaps best player in league on team that was 40-42.

Are you saying Jordan 3 is equivillent to Kobester 2005-6-7?

No way 3rd year MJ was as good as current Kobe.

[Reality]

I plan on foresaking clothes and only wearing strategically located cut-in-half basketballs until the Planet Dribble comes to take me away.

By then I will be wanting putting away.

Staff lets get going on this.

[Reality]

Michael Jordan would scowl and get pissed at teammates for not playing as hard as he thinks they should.  He has even punched players in practice.  Socking players in the head certainly would not alienate them.

Jordan was motivated by wanting the team to win and you could sense it.  Kobester is motivated more by self and you can sense it.

Jordan III with the Wizards was like Kobe.

You don't think Michael Jordan off the court didn't alienate teammates? 

  No.

If Kobe didn't trust his teammates then what do you call the PHX series and the last game of that same series?  Didn't you just say he kept passing the ball?!

Complete loss of credibility to any who try to claim what the Kobester did in the last Phx game was trusting his teamates.

Jordan....was at the most the 3rd best defender on that squad.   

  I'll stick with my own eyes and Tex Winters revisionist history.

Kobe has to score for them to stay competitive so that is what he does.  They are 30-14 over the past two years when he scores 40 or more.

  The stats have born out that when Kobester goes for 40+ they win at a very good percentage.  50+ almost a lock.  That having been said he definitely ball hogged last night vs Clips, taking 5-6 shots that were purely ego driven responses to MeGettys hoops.  Had zero to do with helping Lakers.  And they lost as he he missed his last 5 shots and had a key turnover when Eltie Brand stripped him completely clean.
As to Kobes 50, i have no problem with your saying the Lakers would not have had the lead were it not for the Kobes scoring night.  Jordan knew when to trust tho, Kobester is still learning and may never learn.

Are you Laker posters going to ignore Phil Jacksons asking to trade him?

[WayOutWest]

The year said player was the "best", was he on a .500 team?

Michael Jordan didn't have a .500 team until his 4th year in the league.

Now, he didn't win an MVP until his 4th year, but his 3rd year he averaged 37 ppg, 5 rpg, 4.5 apg, was an all-star (he was an all-star his first 9 years in the league), and did make the all-nba first team his 3rd year.

I guess we're done here....

[Reality]

I guess we're done here....

I guess.  We established MJ was the best player in a .500 year.
Once in 30 years.  This years best Tim Dunkar on the way to 60 again.

No way 3rd year MJ was as good as current Kobe. 

Translation.  No way Kobe has had a year as good as MJs 3rd.

Will he?
Yes.


1987-88 Bulls lineup.
Michael Jordan         
Sam Vincent           
Charles Oakley       
Dave Corzine         
Brad Sellers         
Scottie Pippen rookie   20.9 min  7.9pts 3.8 boards
John Paxson           
Horace Grant 22.6 min 
Sedale Threatt       
Rory Sparrow         
Mike Brown (is that the coach of Cavs?)           
Artis Gilmore   24 games 15.5 min 
Elston Turner         
Granville Waiters     
Tony White   
Fabs Oberto Sr.

[JoMal]

I plan on foresaking clothes and only wearing strategically located cut-in-half basketballs until the Planet Dribble comes to take me away.

By then I will be wanting putting away.

Staff lets get going on this.

Hmmmm. I thought they would be larger. You see, I have this "El Gordo" problem.....

[Lurker]

Back to the original topic...

1975-76  MVP Kareem.  Lakers record 40-42.

Best player leads team to sub .500 record.

[JoMal]

Okay, on topic.

Was not Pistol Pete Maravich considered if not the best player to play the game up to then, at least the most phenomenal player of his era? And were not his teams some of the worst?

[Reality]

Back to the original topic...

1975-76  MVP Kareem.  Lakers record 40-42. 

In one of the closest votes ever for MVP 409-393-378.
I don't think Kareem was the "best" that year but no matter who was voted MVP the other two would have had an argument.  Lots of media thought Dave Cow got it unfairly over Kareem in 1973 and this was payback.
Bob Mc won in '75.
Point still stands that Kareem was one of (if not the) best on a .500 team in '75-6..

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 409 votes   27.7 16.9  5.0
Bob McAdoo 393  31.1 12.4  4.0
Dave Cowens 378  19.0 16.0  4.2

To show what a joke the MVP judges were and are, in '76 Steve Mix, Clifford Ray and Truck Robinson got votes.

The Kobester certainly scored when it counted by dropping 18-25 another 50 vs the Sonics last night.
Had the Lakers been eliminated the spin from Laker posters would have made for more classic Winnin Juice.