Author Topic: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?  (Read 5628 times)

Offline westkoast

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2007, 05:05:50 PM »
Plus one would make it seem like the Lakers are at .500 ball because of Kobe or for no other reason then they just flat out are a horrible team...as oppose to how bad injuries messed a team up who, at one time, was 12-13 games above .500.
B-Rad with the injury/rest of team sucks excuse, it's unique to the Kobester.
Previous 30 years NBA best players did not have injured teamates and they always had great teamates.
Superb mocha, thank you.

You are a moron....keep twisting though.  Didn't realize I said that no teams ever had injuries.  Can you tell me the last time a team had injuries to 4 of the 5 starters over the course of one year and half the bench in one season?  As if that doesn't factor in  ::)
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 05:09:19 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Reality

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #16 on: April 12, 2007, 06:02:54 PM »
Not quite sure what is worse.....just throwing names out of players and saying they will automatically make a team a contender (replacing Kobe for Amare or Yao :laugh: ) 

B-Rad I had listed Tim Duncan also.  I notice you left him out.  Since you think, i mean know the Lakers would be better with Kobe instead of AStoud or Yao, how about Tim Duncan? 

I sense a breakthru coming.

Offline westkoast

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #17 on: April 12, 2007, 06:13:00 PM »
Not quite sure what is worse.....just throwing names out of players and saying they will automatically make a team a contender (replacing Kobe for Amare or Yao :laugh: ) 

B-Rad I had listed Tim Duncan also.  I notice you left him out.  Since you think, i mean know the Lakers would be better with Kobe instead of AStoud or Yao, how about Tim Duncan? 

I sense a breakthru coming.

I left out Tim Duncan cuz you could actually have a serious debate either direction.  Yao and Amare is a joke and a half.  Neither of those players even lead their own teams nor are they developing into those kinds of players (Yao is never going to be a leader)

I don't think Tim Duncan would turn the squad into a contender either...you know why?  Cuz you cannot just interchange any player and all the sudden everything fits together like magic.  The other reason is quite frankly because the Lakers don't have the defensive minded players the Spurs do.  The reason they are so consistent is because of defense.  I think it would be hard for Tim Duncan to dominate if he gets into foul trouble because Smush Parker and Sasha cannot stop penetration.    Contrary to what you think adding a player doesn't automatically make everything good for a trophy.  This is why Lurker has been laughing at you as of late when you start trying to plug in any player who is posting decent (offensive) stats into the Spurs.

Btw, I don't need a breakthru because I can see alot of teams for what they are.  You however do need a life.  Or at least a better hobby.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 06:16:39 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Reality

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #18 on: April 12, 2007, 06:19:42 PM »
I left out Tim Duncan cuz you could actually have a serious debate either direction. 
B-Rad are you telling the board, nay the world that Tim Duncan may be as good as Kobe Bryant!?

Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #19 on: April 12, 2007, 06:42:03 PM »
I left out Tim Duncan cuz you could actually have a serious debate either direction. 
B-Rad are you telling the board, nay the world that Tim Duncan may be as good as Kobe Bryant!?

TD and KG IMO are on the same level as Kobe as a player.  Guys like Nash, Dirk, LeBron, Wade and T-Mac don't play both sides of the court so I don't put them up there with the top 3.
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Offline Lurker

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #20 on: April 12, 2007, 07:10:54 PM »
This is why Lurker has been laughing at you as of late when you start trying to plug in any player who is posting decent (offensive) stats into the Spurs.

But I have finally figured out who I think would be a good athletic 3 for the Spurs to acquire: Tyshaun Prince.  Unfortunately the wrong ex-Bad Boy is running the Pistons.  If only the Knicks & Pistons could switch GMs.  ;D
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Offline westkoast

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #21 on: April 12, 2007, 07:57:29 PM »
This is why Lurker has been laughing at you as of late when you start trying to plug in any player who is posting decent (offensive) stats into the Spurs.

But I have finally figured out who I think would be a good athletic 3 for the Spurs to acquire: Tyshaun Prince.  Unfortunately the wrong ex-Bad Boy is running the Pistons.  If only the Knicks & Pistons could switch GMs.  ;D

Damn that would be a hell of a pick up wouldn't it?  I'd say a perfect fit.   He is a very underrated defender , can get to the rim, hits the 3, and is battle tested.  I think the GM team of Isiah and Reality would do nicely on that trade.  Prince for Fabs and the rights to Scola.  keep the south beach diet dessert flowing 

Reality..Tim Duncan is an elite player, a winner, a hard working professional who seems to be the minority in a league of players who don't work hard or care about the game,  one of the greatest players in history (and the best PF the NBA has seen IMO) and is one of the many reasons why I enjoy pro basketball.  Is he better then Kobe?  Are oranges superior to apples?  Depending on what you want or need for your team is who you pick.  One is unstopable on the outside and one on the inside.  The difference between you and myself is that I have no problem saying that.  You however would rather put your face through a juicer then even admit Kobe is a half way decent player let alone one of the best in the league.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2007, 08:00:05 PM by westkoast »
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Offline Reality

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #22 on: April 13, 2007, 10:01:50 AM »
Reality..Tim Duncan is an elite player, a winner, a hard working professional who seems to be the minority in a league of players who don't work hard or care about the game,  one of the greatest players in history (and the best PF the NBA has seen IMO) and is one of the many reasons why I enjoy pro basketball.  Is he better then Kobe?  Are oranges superior to apples?  Depending on what you want or need for your team is who you pick.  One is unstopable on the outside and one on the inside. 
Ewww answering a question with a question.  Are oranges superior to apples?  Well, I'm not into a fruit discussion but i think we can take this is you are saying Tim Duncan just might, just might be as good as Kobadiah Springfield! :o
It's a breakthru.  A small one, but a breakthru.

Quote
The difference between you and myself is that I have no problem saying that.  You however would rather put your face through a juicer then even admit Kobe is a half way decent player let alone one of the best in the league.
When in doubt lie is still an M.O. of yours, but I'm still geeked about that breakthru. 
Kobe is a half way decent player.  He's more then that.
Will you now put your face through a juicer? ???

Quote
W.O.W.  TD and KG IMO are on the same level as Kobe as a player.
  W.O.W. this isn't about you, this is about westkoast.  However TD and KG are on the same level as Kobe.  Are you sure you don't wanna bounce this off Laker Fan?  Is this gonna cause problems for you at the House?



Offline Reality

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #23 on: April 13, 2007, 10:03:13 AM »
This is why Lurker has been laughing at you as of late when you start trying to plug in any player who is posting decent (offensive) stats into the Spurs.

But I have finally figured out who I think would be a good athletic 3 for the Spurs to acquire: Tyshaun Prince.  Unfortunately the wrong ex-Bad Boy is running the Pistons.  If only the Knicks & Pistons could switch GMs.  ;D
We thought about that in 2004 but if that Metamucil in your oatmeal is giving you an extra mental kick, hey what will todays revelation be?

Offline westkoast

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #24 on: April 13, 2007, 10:17:05 AM »
Reality..Tim Duncan is an elite player, a winner, a hard working professional who seems to be the minority in a league of players who don't work hard or care about the game,  one of the greatest players in history (and the best PF the NBA has seen IMO) and is one of the many reasons why I enjoy pro basketball.  Is he better then Kobe?  Are oranges superior to apples?  Depending on what you want or need for your team is who you pick.  One is unstopable on the outside and one on the inside. 
Ewww answering a question with a question.  Are oranges superior to apples?  Well, I'm not into a fruit discussion but i think we can take this is you are saying Tim Duncan just might, just might be as good as Kobadiah Springfield! :o
It's a breakthru.  A small one, but a breakthru.

Quote
The difference between you and myself is that I have no problem saying that.  You however would rather put your face through a juicer then even admit Kobe is a half way decent player let alone one of the best in the league.
When in doubt lie is still an M.O. of yours, but I'm still geeked about that breakthru. 
Kobe is a half way decent player.  He's more then that.
Will you now put your face through a juicer? ???

Quote
W.O.W.  TD and KG IMO are on the same level as Kobe as a player.
  W.O.W. this isn't about you, this is about westkoast.  However TD and KG are on the same level as Kobe.  Are you sure you don't wanna bounce this off Laker Fan?  Is this gonna cause problems for you at the House?




When you want to use your brain let me know.  We can continue this then.
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Offline WayOutWest

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #25 on: April 13, 2007, 10:22:33 AM »
Reality,

I regards to break thrus, you should search out the list of top players thread most of us posted in, you'll see that people have always had a valid opinion of all the top players in the NBA, TD and KG have always been at the top along with Kobe.  I can't think of ANY Laker fan on this board who's ever thought Kobe was head and shoulders above the rest.  IMO Kobe's the best player in the NBA this year, but if you know anything about basketball there are differences between best, most effective, most dominant, most valuable etc.....

For example:
Best: Current Kobe
Most effective: Current Nash (offense), Current TD/KG overall
Most dominant: 2000-2002 Shaq, can't really think of a dominant player today, TD comes the closest.
Most valuable: Nash
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Offline Reality

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #26 on: April 13, 2007, 10:52:21 AM »
"Best Player" means things that do not show up in the stat sheet.
Ie does not scowl and pout at teamates when they fail to live up to his perceptions.
ie does not distance teamates with prima donna behavior on and off court.
ie trusts teamates to make important shots.
ie plays great on both sides of the ball.

Kobe is not the best player.
Duncan is, and he will prove it again this year.
Kobe is the best scorer.

When Phil sits down with Kobe either alone or as a team, does Kobester really throw his heart into what can make the team better?  Like Jordan and Phil did.  I doubt it.  In fact make that a no way.  Phil asked to have him traded for goodness sake.  Recent times?  Last years playoffs when Kobester pouted and refused to shoot in a head game display so the world could see just how bad the Lakers are when Kobester refuses to play.  Spare us, i know you are openmided WOW to know exactly what he was up to when he did that vs Phx.  Will he mature?  He might, then he would become one of the best all around.

Offline westkoast

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #27 on: April 13, 2007, 11:04:41 AM »
"Best Player" means things that do not show up in the stat sheet.
Ie does not scowl and pout at teamates when they fail to live up to his perceptions.
ie does not distance teamates with prima donna behavior on and off court.
ie trusts teamates to make important shots.
ie plays great on both sides of the ball.

Really?  Maybe we need to re-think Michael Jordan as the best player in the league during his hay day.

Michael Jordan would scowl and get pissed at teammates for not playing as hard as he thinks they should.  He has even punched players in practice.  Socking players in the head certainly would not alienate them.

You don't think Michael Jordan off the court didn't alienate teammates?  Everything involved betting large sums of money and competiting/trash talking..playing golf, playing cards, at the battling cages, in Vegas.   This is revisionist history to say otherwise.  Want to bring up Kobe cheating on his wife?  MJ did that also.

If Kobe didn't trust his teammates then what do you call the PHX series and the last game of that same series?  Didn't you just say he kept passing the ball?!

Jordan, like Kobe, had to pick and chose where to spend energy.   Jordan was not a defensive stopper every time down the floor either.  It is revisionist history to say otherwise.   He was at the most the 3rd best defender on that squad.   Kobe has to score for them to stay competitive so that is what he does.  They are 30-14 over the past two years when he scores 40 or more.



Quote
Kobe is not the best player.
Duncan is, and he will prove it again this year.
Kobe is the best scorer.

When Phil sits down with Kobe either alone or as a team, does Kobester really throw his heart into what can make the team better?  Like Jordan and Phil did.  I doubt it.  In fact make that a no way.  Phil asked to have him traded for goodness sake.  Recent times?  Last years playoffs when Kobester pouted and refused to shoot in a head game display so the world could see just how bad the Lakers are when Kobester refuses to play.  Spare us, i know you are openmided WOW to know exactly what he was up to when he did that vs Phx.  Will he mature?  He might, then he would become one of the best all around.


First of all, Duncan can't prove he is the best player AGAIN this year because he wasn't the best player last year, Steve Nash was in the regular season and Wade in the playoffs.

I don't see what makes you know for a fact he doesn't want to do anything to make his team better.  The guy wants to win every night and I am pretty sure he understands it is a team game.  Anyone who watches basketball knows it is a team game.  How do I know that anyone, even a slow person,  understands its a team game?  Because YOU know it is a team game.

If Kobe would have shot in that game and they lost he would be blamed for ball hogging.  He passes the ball to open players and they miss...it's his fault.  Regardless of the simple fact that he made the right decision by getting the ball to the open man, he did it to prove a point.  If Kobe scores 50 he is a ball hog, if he doesn't shoot alot he is sand bagging.  If he passes the ball he is too passive, if he attacks too much he is too aggressive.  If he passes to a teammate for an open shot he is doing it just to prove they will miss and he should have taken it, if he takes it he is selfish because he didn't pass it to a teammate.

He already is one of the best all around, you said I am lying about you not wanting to give him props then you turn around and make that comment.  Thanks for proving my point!
« Last Edit: April 13, 2007, 11:20:21 AM by westkoast »
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Offline rickortreat

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2007, 11:40:58 AM »
They weren't best players, they were MVP's and their teams were the best.  That's the way it works.

Oscar Robertson was the "best" player when his team didn't win anything in Cincinnati.  That's just the way it is.

Kobe has his fans, but even they know that inspite of the tremendous season he's had, that he has little chance of getting that MVP award.

Offline JoMal

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Re: Has the NBAs "best" player ever been on a .500 team?
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2007, 12:08:38 PM »
After reading through all this nonsense, I can't wait until both TD and Kobe retire.
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