Pacers in bar fight....again.

[Lurker]

Even with Jackson trasded away three Pacers are involved in another bar incident.  Maybe Jackson wasn't the only "bad character" wearing a Pacer uniform.

http://sports.excite.com/news/02072007/v8015.html

Police: 3 Pacers Players Involved in Bar Fight; No Charges Filed

Feb 7, 1:14 PM (ET)

INDIANAPOLIS (AP) -Indiana Pacers guard Jamaal Tinsley and teammates Marquis Daniels and Keith McLeod were involved in a fight with a bar manager after a home loss to Golden State early Tuesday, police said.
No one was immediately arrested or charged. Police are still investigating the fight.

The police report said the bar manager of the at 8 Seconds Saloon might have a fractured jaw and severed earlobe. He told officers that Tinsley had threatened to kill him, the report said. Witnesses told officers that McLeod had shoved people during the scuffle.

The confrontation followed another fight involving a person who employees thought was trying to steal coats from the coat check area, police said.

The manager and witnesses told officers that Tinsley, Daniels and a man with them punched the manager in the face and head.

The manager "stated that he was unable to defend himself, at which time both witnesses ... stated that they felt that the life of the victim was in danger," according to the report.

Pacers CEO Donnie Walsh said in a statement Wednesday that the team was aware of the allegations but would have no further comment until police complete the investigation.

A phone number provided by the NBA Players Association for Tinsley's agent, Raymond J. Brothers, was answered by a message saying it was no longer in service.

Tinsley was at a strip club with then-Pacers teammate Stephen Jackson in October when a fight broke out during which Jackson fired a gun into the air several times before he was hit by a car.

Tinsley was not charged in that fight, but Jackson faces criminal recklessness and other charges. Jackson has pleaded not guilty.

[westkoast]

I guess it is really hard to give some of these guys the benefit of the doubt but I'd like to know more...

It went from employees thinking someone was stealing jackets from the coat rack (doubt it was NBA ball players)

To them just randomly punching the guy in the head?

Something else had to have happened for this to go as far as it did.

[msc]

I hear you westkoast and tend to agree. 

But regardless of the true story, my heart goes out to Larry Bird.  Larry Legend doesn't deserve to deal with these petulant little punks.  He'd go home from the game and practice more ... not go to a strip club and fire five rounds off in the air. 

Larry & Magic saved the league once ... I'm not sure there will ever be another Larry/Magic combo to resurrect it again if the players don't get their act together soon. 

[Reality]

No doubt.  1st Larry as coach brought the Pacers back to the Finals for goodness sake!

Then he has all the pieces in place in 2004 and a lot feel a knee injury to JOneal is all that stopped another Finals appearance as Larry the GM.
Concur he does not deserve any of this.

Do you guys think Phil J has some great way of reaching modern NBA brat, or has Phil simply had a much better cast to work with (in LA also) then Larry.  Would the same crap happen to Phil J in Indy with the same roster?

[Rolando Blackman]

Hey Reality!!!
   
"Are you kiddin' me?" (Jim Mora)
   
Of COURSE they would behave badly, even under Phil's tutelage...it's not about the coaches, it's the players' (low rent - euphemism) mentalities!
   
There...I said it, as PC as possible.  We can do this, if you want.
   
- RB
Shaq #1

[Lurker]

Even if they didn't start it...or finish it...why are they in that position at all?  Tinsley was involved in the situation that led to Jackson shooting a gun and being shipped out. 

Stupid is as stupid does.

[westkoast]

Even if they didn't start it...or finish it...why are they in that position at all?  Tinsley was involved in the situation that led to Jackson shooting a gun and being shipped out. 

Stupid is as stupid does.

No doubt that is a good question but this certainly wouldn't be the first time that someone has tried to push a situation with someone rich/famous to their advantage.

But you are right, stupid is as stupid does.

I also don't think that Phil Jackson would be able to curb these guys from doing all the dumb stuff they've been doing.  He has been lucky enough to have non-thugs.  What grown men do on their free time is on them.  Nothing another grown man says to them will change that.  I am sure their fathers have already tried.

[Reality]

Hey Reality!!!
   
"Are you kiddin' me?" (Jim Mora)
   
Of COURSE they would behave badly, even under Phil's tutelage...it's not about the coaches, it's the players' (low rent - euphemism) mentalities!
There...I said it, as PC as possible.  We can do this, if you want.
- RB
Shaq #1

Ya when Phil couldn't get the Kobester to share the ball with Shaq and Shaq to stop at 12 Whoppers i guess that ended even Phils ability to zen the brats.

[rickortreat]

If they are suspended for a year with loss of salary, that would make them be more careful about how they handle themselves in public.  Of course this depends on whether they were actually guilty of anything.

There has to be something going on though.  I've been in plenty of bars without there being one fight.  Most people certainly wouldn't want to pick a fight with an NBA athlete.  There must be something about these particular individuals that "trouble" seems to find them.

[westkoast]

Hey Reality!!!
   
"Are you kiddin' me?" (Jim Mora)
   
Of COURSE they would behave badly, even under Phil's tutelage...it's not about the coaches, it's the players' (low rent - euphemism) mentalities!
There...I said it, as PC as possible.  We can do this, if you want.
- RB
Shaq #1

Ya when Phil couldn't get the Kobester to share the ball with Shaq i guess that ended even Phils ability to zen the brats.

Fact:

Kobe passed the ball to Shaq more then any other player on the Laker's squad.

[Joe Vancil]

Is that in percentage of touches, or is that in total passes?

Total passes, I believe.  More touches for a player means more passes he should naturally be making.  Given that Kobe had more touches than anyone else, it makes sense that his total passes to Shaq *SHOULD* be the highest.

[westkoast]

Is that in percentage of touches, or is that in total passes?

Total passes, I believe.  More touches for a player means more passes he should naturally be making.  Given that Kobe had more touches than anyone else, it makes sense that his total passes to Shaq *SHOULD* be the highest.

No one assisted Shaq's baskets more then Kobe.  Kobe also passed to Shaq more then anyone else.  Yes if a player touches the ball more he should have more passes....but that isn't the point being made Joe.

[Joe Vancil]

What *IS* the point?  The fact that the person who gave the ball to Shaq the most was the person who had the ball the most is pretty irrelevant in trying to determine the greedy nature of a player.

In words one might understand, if James has the ball 40 times and gives to Skander 4 times (which, for James is awfully darn generous), while I have the ball 5 times and give the ball to Skander twice, it's awfully irrelevant - not to mention MISLEADING - to say that James gave the ball to Skander more than I did.  And if Skander is a 50% shooter, and scores on James's passes twice and my passes once, it's awfully irrelevant (and misleading) to say that James had more assists to Skander.

One might even say that in such a scenario, James was being selfish.

One would be right.

[westkoast]

What *IS* the point?  The fact that the person who gave the ball to Shaq the most was the person who had the ball the most is pretty irrelevant in trying to determine the greedy nature of a player.

In words one might understand, if James has the ball 40 times and gives to Skander 4 times (which, for James is awfully darn generous), while I have the ball 5 times and give the ball to Skander twice, it's awfully irrelevant - not to mention MISLEADING - to say that James gave the ball to Skander more than I did.  And if Skander is a 50% shooter, and scores on James's passes twice and my passes once, it's awfully irrelevant (and misleading) to say that James had more assists to Skander.

One might even say that in such a scenario, James was being selfish.

One would be right.

This has nothing to do with him being a greedy player or trying to prove otherwise...you are looking too much into it as if this is a full on debate.  It is not.

"Ya when Phil couldn't get the Kobester to share the ball with Shaq and Shaq to stop at 12 Whoppers i guess that ended even Phils ability to zen the brats."

It was a response to this and only this. 

[msc]

What *IS* the point?  The fact that the person who gave the ball to Shaq the most was the person who had the ball the most is pretty irrelevant in trying to determine the greedy nature of a player.

In words one might understand, if James has the ball 40 times and gives to Skander 4 times (which, for James is awfully darn generous), while I have the ball 5 times and give the ball to Skander twice, it's awfully irrelevant - not to mention MISLEADING - to say that James gave the ball to Skander more than I did.  And if Skander is a 50% shooter, and scores on James's passes twice and my passes once, it's awfully irrelevant (and misleading) to say that James had more assists to Skander.

One might even say that in such a scenario, James was being selfish.

One would be right.

Oh Good God! 

Or one might say that James was the best ball handler on the floor, and the coaching staff directed him to initiate the offense, which is why he had the ball 40 times.  Meanwhile Joe has the ball 5 times because he's a back to the basket player who can't handle the ball to save his life.

Damned if he do, damned if he don't.