Bynum V SuperFabs I

[Lurker]

If you think all Barry does well is shoot, drug test.  Barry does a bunch of little things well.  Floor spacing and passing he is excellent at, might be the best passer on the team along with SuperGNob.

If you ask the Spurs players they say that Beno is the best passer on the team.  But that doesn't mean he should be on the floor for 40 minutes a game.

[Randy]

Reality...playing a role player (Barry) for starter minutes generally ends up being bad for both the player and the team.  Besides the simple fact...that neither you or Randy seem to understand...there is a WHOLE lot more to a basketball game than just shooting the ball for a high %.

Barry's last year in Seattle as a starter:
     30.6 mpg, 50% fg%, 45% 3pt%, 82% ft%, 1.4 stl, 2.4 to, 3.5 reb, 5.8 ass, 10.8 ppg

Manu (this year as the critical 3rd scoring option)
     27 mpg, 45% fg%, 41% 3pt%, 1.4 stl, 2 to, 4.4 reb, 3.7 ass, 14.6 ppg

Hmm . . .
    Barry shoots better from the field and the arch
    Manu shoots better from the stripe
    The same in steals
    Barry is slightly higher in to
    Manu is higher in rebounds
    Barry is higher in assists
    Manu has more ppg (obviously shooting more on a lower percentage)

Barry has been a quality starter in the past for several teams.  He plays well within his game, he's an underrated defensive player and an underrated passer. 

[Lurker]

Reality...playing a role player (Barry) for starter minutes generally ends up being bad for both the player and the team.  Besides the simple fact...that neither you or Randy seem to understand...there is a WHOLE lot more to a basketball game than just shooting the ball for a high %.

Barry's last year in Seattle as a starter:
     30.6 mpg, 50% fg%, 45% 3pt%, 82% ft%, 1.4 stl, 2.4 to, 3.5 reb, 5.8 ass, 10.8 ppg

Manu (this year as the critical 3rd scoring option)
     27 mpg, 45% fg%, 41% 3pt%, 1.4 stl, 2 to, 4.4 reb, 3.7 ass, 14.6 ppg

Hmm . . .
    Barry shoots better from the field and the arch
    Manu shoots better from the stripe
    The same in steals
    Barry is slightly higher in to
    Manu is higher in rebounds
    Barry is higher in assists
    Manu has more ppg (obviously shooting more on a lower percentage)

Barry has been a quality starter in the past for several teams.  He plays well within his game, he's an underrated defensive player and an underrated passer. 

Does one even have to go into the whole different style of play employed by the two teams.  or should we just let the apple/orange comparison stand.  Hmmmm....

[msc]

Oh I want to see what you and Lurker think of Genius Pops decision to have Michael Fins take more shots (2-10) then Duncan and Brent Barry.
Play more minutes then Barry, too.  Again.

Bynum played his role well and left the scoring up to Kobe and Odom that night.
Fabs i don't know, only watched the 2nd half.  Sounds like he dominated.  Why only 13 minutes?

Reality, you can blame Pop's coaching and shot distribution all you want, but San Antonio shot 51.4% for the game to the Lakers 48.9%.  All things considered, pretty solid shooting by the Spurs.  The difference in the outcome of the game was due to the Lakers advantage in rebounds (+9) and points off of turnovers.  Other than that, SA wins the game.  I don't see how you can blame Pop for that.  

I do agree that the ball should have been pounded in to Duncan a lot more, but I think that's a given for every Spurs game.  However, to dissect a game by saying, Barry should have taken more shots, or Finley shouldn't have taken as many shots is a complete exercise in futility ... esp. when a team shoots over 50% for the game.  

[Randy]

Reality...playing a role player (Barry) for starter minutes generally ends up being bad for both the player and the team.  Besides the simple fact...that neither you or Randy seem to understand...there is a WHOLE lot more to a basketball game than just shooting the ball for a high %.

Barry's last year in Seattle as a starter:
     30.6 mpg, 50% fg%, 45% 3pt%, 82% ft%, 1.4 stl, 2.4 to, 3.5 reb, 5.8 ass, 10.8 ppg

Manu (this year as the critical 3rd scoring option)
     27 mpg, 45% fg%, 41% 3pt%, 1.4 stl, 2 to, 4.4 reb, 3.7 ass, 14.6 ppg

Hmm . . .
    Barry shoots better from the field and the arch
    Manu shoots better from the stripe
    The same in steals
    Barry is slightly higher in to
    Manu is higher in rebounds
    Barry is higher in assists
    Manu has more ppg (obviously shooting more on a lower percentage)

Barry has been a quality starter in the past for several teams.  He plays well within his game, he's an underrated defensive player and an underrated passer. 

Does one even have to go into the whole different style of play employed by the two teams.  or should we just let the apple/orange comparison stand.  Hmmmm....

you mean like simply stating that Barry is a role player?  is that not enough apple/orange comparison for you? 

[Lurker]

you mean like simply stating that Barry is a role player?  is that not enough apple/orange comparison for you? 

So instead of a role player...generally what most non-superstar/all-stars are called...just exactly what would you call him?  An all-star?  A superstar?

He is what he is...a role player.  Maybe a better than average role player but a role player still.

[Randy]

you mean like simply stating that Barry is a role player?  is that not enough apple/orange comparison for you? 

So instead of a role player...generally what most non-superstar/all-stars are called...just exactly what would you call him?  An all-star?  A superstar?

He is what he is...a role player.  Maybe a better than average role player but a role player still.

Just to remind you of what you actually wrote:

playing a role player (Barry) for starter minutes generally ends up being bad for both the player and the team.

Let me make sure I get this right -- most non-superstars/all-stars are called role players.  But then you state that "playing a role player starter minutes ends up being bad for both the player and the team" -- so there are superstars/all-stars and role players -- but you don't give role players starting minutes -- which means that most teams can only put 1 to 3 players on the court.  From now on, we are going to ask the Spurs to only start their superstars or all-stars on the floor?

[WayOutWest]

In regards to who's on the floor and who gets minutes, I thought the line up changed in the Clippers game.  Manu and Elson got the start, while Fins and Flabs started on the bench.

In the new "role player" order, the Lakers would be screwed, fielding only two players, Kobe and Odom, and Odom is a question mark.  IMO Kobe would be ok with that.....

[Reality]

Oh I want to see what you and Lurker think of Genius Pops decision to have Michael Fins take more shots (2-10) then Duncan and Brent Barry.
Play more minutes then Barry, too.  Again.

Bynum played his role well and left the scoring up to Kobe and Odom that night.
Fabs i don't know, only watched the 2nd half.  Sounds like he dominated.  Why only 13 minutes?

Reality, you can blame Pop's coaching and shot distribution all you want, but San Antonio shot 51.4% for the game to the Lakers 48.9%.  All things considered, pretty solid shooting by the Spurs.  The difference in the outcome of the game was due to the Lakers advantage in rebounds (+9) and points off of turnovers.  Other than that, SA wins the game.  I don't see how you can blame Pop for that.  

I do agree that the ball should have been pounded in to Duncan a lot more, but I think that's a given for every Spurs game.  However, to dissect a game by saying, Barry should have taken more shots, or Finley shouldn't have taken as many shots is a complete exercise in futility ... esp. when a team shoots over 50% for the game.  

msc, see what fellow Laker W.O.W. has absorbed:

In regards to who's on the floor and who gets minutes, I thought the line up changed in the Clippers game.  Manu and Elson got the start, while Fins and Flabs started on the bench.

In the new "role player" order, the Lakers would be screwed, fielding only two players, Kobe and Odom, and Odom is a question mark.  IMO Kobe would be ok with that.....

Rebound battle was a key part, i agree.
Fabs as you know got the start and the quick hook.  When Elson and Duncan were in together the Spurs were winning the rebound battle.  It also COMPLETELY changes their D.    Finley started and was 0-3 before he finally got benched for GNob at the 4 minute mark.  Spurs then promptly bolted to stretch to an 11 point lead with .  They held it at 9 pts as Frankie Elson hit the opening shot of the 2nd qtr.  Incredibly Pop-A-Cement then inserts Michael Bricks Finley, again just two minutes into the 2nd .  Barry still glued to the bench.  Two more awful bricks to run his night to 1-6 and Lamar Odom follows with a trey off the long Finley brick.  Lakers right back in it.  Bricks is currently a total momentum killer and JoeV is sorely mistaken in thinking he brings so many other things besides shots to the Spurs.  He doesnt.  His weak D has gotten a little better tho.  Passing is no where near Barrys.  Shot attempts taken at a time and place that usually results in great "field position" for opponent and did in Laker game for sure.
Barry ONTOH great at setting up teamates with timely passes.

The Lakers ruled the mid 3rd with Elson in true, but left out there "alone" in Poppysmallball nonsense.  Pop just can't get it to play Duncan and Elson together with good sprinklings of 75% fga Barry.
Yes, darn right I blame Pop on the loss.  I feel it would have been a hard earned 7 pt win as opposed to 7 point loss.
Leaving Bricks Finley in most certainly did hurt the Spurs and help the Lakers.

As W.O.W. noted the lineup the Spurs bring against the Clippers Duncan Elson GNob Parker Bowen Barry is the ticket right now.  Its hardly a one game thing.  Spurs are 9-0 with Elsie getting 20 min + (esp when in with Duncan at same time) and SuperBarrys numbers speak for themselves.  TallBall Spurs are much better then the PoppysmallBricks version.

[Joe Vancil]

On the "role player in starter's minutes" argument, my comment is simply, "It depends on the role player."  Some role players are starter-quality material;  some are not.

Brent Barry is starter-quality material.  If you don't think so, send him to Utah.

If we're talking Troy Hudson, obviously, the argument is a bit different.

Just as there are different levels of superstars, there are different levels of role players.

[Lurker]

On the "role player in starter's minutes" argument, my comment is simply, "It depends on the role player."  Some role players are starter-quality material;  some are not.

Brent Barry is starter-quality material.  If you don't think so, send him to Utah.

If we're talking Troy Hudson, obviously, the argument is a bit different.

Just as there are different levels of superstars, there are different levels of role players.

Why bring reason and logic into the argument when flying by the seat of your pants emotional button pushing posting is soooooooooo much more fun.   

[Randy]

On the "role player in starter's minutes" argument, my comment is simply, "It depends on the role player."  Some role players are starter-quality material;  some are not.

Brent Barry is starter-quality material.  If you don't think so, send him to Utah.

If we're talking Troy Hudson, obviously, the argument is a bit different.

Just as there are different levels of superstars, there are different levels of role players.

Why bring reason and logic into the argument when flying by the seat of your pants emotional button pushing posting is soooooooooo much more fun.   

I think this may be the FIRST thing we have EVER agreed on!

You know the difference between Avery Johnson (as a player) and Manu Ginobili?  Avery Johnson didn't even belong in the CBA Hall of Fame -- Manu does!

[Skandery]

You know the difference between Avery Johnson (as a player) and Manu Ginobili?

What's the difference between Kobe Bryant and Reggie Evans.

One lives in Denver and traveled to Los Angeles to sexually assault an LA citizen.
One lives in LA and traveled to Denver to sexually assault an Denver citizen.









I hope that hotel maid looked better than Chris Kaman.

[Randy]

You know the difference between Avery Johnson (as a player) and Manu Ginobili?

What's the difference between Kobe Bryant and Reggie Evans.

One lives in Denver and traveled to Los Angeles to sexually assault an LA citizen.
One lives in LA and traveled to Denver to sexually assault an Denver citizen.









I hope that hotel maid looked better than Chris Kaman.

lol -- you know, I'm not sure that Kaman has been the same ever since!  Maybe he should have filed charges too.  It's one thing when it's a he said/she said -- it's quite different when you do it on camera in front of the entire world.  Is Denver a "don't ask/don't tell" environment?

[WayOutWest]

You know the difference between Avery Johnson (as a player) and Manu Ginobili?

What's the difference between Kobe Bryant and Reggie Evans.

One lives in Denver and traveled to Los Angeles to sexually assault an LA citizen.
One lives in LA and traveled to Denver to sexually assault an Denver citizen.









I hope that hotel maid looked better than Chris Kaman.

It's weird how mase sales spike amoung hotel workers when the Lakers come to town.