end of game heroics

[Guest_Randy]

Exactly right.  He should have said Kobe is chief among the few people selfish enough to do it.  Is that better?

Is Kobe selfish?  Well, I think he has shown himself to be selfish -- sure.  I think it's always good to do ask yourself honestly -- like me for instance -- does the fact that I'm a Laker fan taint the way I can objectly judge Kobe?  Of course it does -- now ask yourself this -- does the fact that you dislike Kobe immensely taint your objectivity?

But it's kind of funny -- how many said the same thing about MJ?  There's a fine line between taking a game over (MJ did this, Malone did this, etc.) and doing so within the framework of the offense and not forgetting you have teammates.  I've watched games where I wanted Kobe to be MORE selfish this year -- when he is passing to teammates, not taking it to the rack and teammates are clanging from outside -- I've also watched Kobe force the issue -- playing 1 on 3 (and even once 1 on 4).  I hope that this is an area that Kobe grows in -- we will have to wait and see -- but there are many who won't ever be objective enough to even allow the facts to change their opinion.

[rickortreat]

I saw the game with T-Mac doing that, and thought it the most amazing performance ever by a player to win a game for his team.  I cannot remember a time when a team came back to win a game after being down over 10 pts. with 2 minutes left to go.

There is no question in my mind that if T-Mac didn't do that, Houston would have lost the game, as they have lost so many since.  No one else on the Rockets seemed capable of doing anything in those clsing minutes to change the outcome.

So what are you sayiing, that other players are as selfish as Kobe?  I wouldn't dissagree but using the examples of Artest, Francis and Dalembert is just plain silly. They are not selfish ball hogs on he court like the player this thread is revolving around.

In fairness to Kobe, he doesn't have a lot of options on that team-other players who will step up and score points.  But he goes into this mode where he won't even look to pass, which is simply bad basketball!  And this observation was from one of the announcers during a game.

As for the Sixers, they just plain suck.  After winning tow games against an even more dysfunctional team in the Knicks, they just got blown out last night against Cleveland.  Just pathetic defence and no offensive consistency.  It made me sick to watch.  Watching Kobme in selfish mode is still more entertaining than that.

 

[Guest]

I saw the game with T-Mac doing that, and thought it the most amazing performance ever by a player to win a game for his team. I cannot remember a time when a team came back to win a game after being down over 10 pts. with 2 minutes left to go.

There is no question in my mind that if T-Mac didn't do that, Houston would have lost the game, as they have lost so many since. No one else on the Rockets seemed capable of doing anything in those clsing minutes to change the outcome.

Rick, will you explain to me why it's okay when T-Mac does it (because nobody else is doing it) and why it's just Kobe being selfish when he is doing it.  

Kobe actually did this when Shaq was with the Lakers -- with great success (esp. against the Spurs who did a decent job of containing Shaq but couldn't stop Kobe).  

I'm not saying that Kobe isn't selfish -- but I've seen games where he DOESN'T play selfish basketball and there are too many here that can't admit that fact.

I wouldn't dissagree but using the examples of Artest, Francis and Dalembert is just plain silly. They are not selfish ball hogs on he court like the player this thread is revolving around.

This is hilarious -- Francis isn't a selfish ballhog?  That's funny!  And because Artest and Dalembert aren't selfish ballhogs on the court, they don't affect the team's win/loss record?  Ask the Pacers how Artest is helping them on the court this year!

[westkoast]

This went from a simple post pointing out the obvious double standard into a full on debate?

If Kobe were to score the last 14 points of the game and someone were to make a post "bragging" about it then you would get a number of posts saying

"He is a ballhog"

"Well, why didnt he pass to Brian Cook on the wing instead of taking it to the rack for the 6th time?"

"This is not good for the Lakers at all, this is hurting the team game and Kobe is being his normal self looking for all the shine"

Manu does it and you would think he is on his way into the hall of fame by the end of this season.

Is Kobe selfish at times? Yes he is selfish at times.  That is a given but that is not the point that is being made.  The point being made is that its always the same talk with him no matter what he does by certain posters.  When someone else does something similar its a joyous occasion.

[Reality]

A thread on Manu being hijacked into the Lakers again feeling Kobe is not being shown due reverence. :rolleyes:

1st off Kobe never has scored the last 14 points of a game.  It was Manu.  So can we prop Manu for that.  2ndly obviously no one was able to catch the game.

For "living-out-of-the-boxscore" westkoast, if Kobe did actually have a game "like that", well if you saw the Manu finish, and you didn't- including 100% legit foul shots being awarded, i would hope you would then objectively prop Kobe.    

Randoph while indeed 9 of SuperManus points were on FTs, a couple occured with the Wiz trailing only by two.  Couple more provided a good gap.  The last 4 or so were icing.  Prior to that a superb fake pump step back 3 pter and nice midrange jumper were included in Manus close.  

That Kobe has slipped all the way from #1 to #3 in FTAs certainly proves to you Kobe deserves each and every FTA he gets. :rofl:

 

[Reality]

Is Kobe selfish?  Well, I think he has shown himself to be selfish -- sure.

Let the heavens rejoice.

Randy the day your recovery is complete, and i do see that day however afar off, will indeed be a blessed day.

[Reality]

I think it's always good to do ask yourself honestly -- like me for instance -- does the fact that I'm a Laker fan taint the way I can objectly judge Kobe?  Of course it does -- now ask yourself this -- does the fact that you dislike Kobe immensely taint your objectivity?

No.

And how could i dislike Reality Inc's current #1 moneymaker?

[Guest_Randy]

Is Kobe selfish?  Well, I think he has shown himself to be selfish -- sure.

Let the heavens rejoice.

Randy the day your recovery is complete, and i do see that day however afar off, will indeed be a blessed day.

If you weren't so busy with your agenda, you'd see that this wasn't the first time I have posted this.  It's called being far more objective about Kobe than you have ever been!

[Reality]

If you weren't so busy with your agenda, you'd see that this wasn't the first time I have posted this.  It's called being far more objective about Kobe than you have ever been!

No actually you were just whining a week ago when Kobe had a stretch of a whole 5 games whereupon he only recieved 5-7 FTAs per game.  As if it objectively offset the other 2000 games he gets marketed to the line with a parade and escort.

Anyway do you have any thoughts on Manus final 14?  Other then the boxscore correctly stating 9 of 14 were FTs?

[Guest]

Randoph while indeed 9 of SuperManus points were on FTs, a couple occured with the Wiz trailing only by two. Couple more provided a good gap. The last 4 or so were icing. Prior to that a superb fake pump step back 3 pter and nice midrange jumper were included in Manus close.

Manu scored 11 points on freethrows that night (shot a total of 15 ft's).  Those 9 ft's I was referring to were in the vital period in which you were referencing.  And it STILL remains that if those foul calls were given to Kobe, you would be on here criticizing refs and the NBA for poor officiating.  But there's the double standard for you!

That Kobe has slipped all the way from #1 to #3 in FTAs certainly proves to you Kobe deserves each and every FTA he gets.

See that's what happens when you JUST follow stats and don't even actually watch the guy play.  IF you had actually watched Kobe lately, you would realize that his fall in ft attempts have far less to do with any of your rants and much more to do with the fact that he is shooting the ball more from the outside and taking it to the rack far less than in the first half of the season.  Kobe is flat worn out -- it's pretty obvious from watching him play -- he simply doesn't have the energy to take it to the rack like he was previously in the season.  

[Reality]

Manu scored 11 points on freethrows that night (shot a total of 15 ft's).  Those 9 ft's I was referring to were in the vital period in which you were referencing.

9 straight made FTs were in the final 14.  Duh.
Plus even after the Spurs pulled ahead by 6, Caron Butler drilled an immediate trey to pull the Wiz to within 3 again.  Enter Manu again.

I've got it Randy.
If Kobe goes to the rack, it's a foul.  If he doesn't, it's only because he is too tired.

[westkoast]

A thread on Manu being hijacked into the Lakers again feeling Kobe is not being shown due reverence. :rolleyes:

1st off Kobe never has scored the last 14 points of a game.  It was Manu.  So can we prop Manu for that.  2ndly obviously no one was able to catch the game.

For "living-out-of-the-boxscore" westkoast, if Kobe did actually have a game "like that", well if you saw the Manu finish, and you didn't- including 100% legit foul shots being awarded, i would hope you would then objectively prop Kobe.     

Randoph while indeed 9 of SuperManus points were on FTs, a couple occured with the Wiz trailing only by two.  Couple more provided a good gap.  The last 4 or so were icing.  Prior to that a superb fake pump step back 3 pter and nice midrange jumper were included in Manus close. 

That Kobe has slipped all the way from #1 to #3 in FTAs certainly proves to you Kobe deserves each and every FTA he gets. :rofl:

It really has nothing to do with Kobe or Manu....it has to do with your lack of objectivity.

100% legit foul shooting...LOL why do I not believe that when it comes to Manu?  Thanks for proving my point yet again.  Kobe never gets to the line legit but Manu always does.  Regardless of the fact that Manu is the premier flopper in the league now that Vlade is gone and Fish has lost his step to get himself into position.  You know I enjoyed pointing out your double standards and when you are being an idiot but I guess I have you trained so well that you do it yourself now!!!  :up:

And Kobe dropping from #1 to #3 has to do with the stretch of time then.....he was shooting more outside jumpers because they were dropping for him.  That and he pissed two refs in particular off and they will let him get battered up before they even think about blowing the whistle.

[Reality]

It really has nothing to do with Kobe or Manu....it has to do with your lack of objectivity.

100% legit foul shooting...LOL why do I not believe that when it comes to Manu?  Thanks for proving my point yet again.  Kobe never gets to the line legit but Manu always does.  Regardless of the fact that Manu is the premier flopper in the league now that Vlade is gone and Fish has lost his step to get himself into position.  You know I enjoyed pointing out your double standards and when you are being an idiot but I guess I have you trained so well that you do it yourself now!!!  :up:

And Kobe dropping from #1 to #3 has to do with the stretch of time then.....he was shooting more outside jumpers because they were dropping for him.  That and he pissed two refs in particular off and they will let him get battered up before they even think about blowing the whistle. [/quote]
 Manu flops on defense, not offense.  When one flops on defense and gets the call, their team is awarded the ball, not free throw attempts.  Something I'm guessing they don't teach you on SouthPark.  But they do teach juvinille vulgarity. :rolleyes:  :nonono:


 

[westkoast]

It really has nothing to do with Kobe or Manu....it has to do with your lack of objectivity.

100% legit foul shooting...LOL why do I not believe that when it comes to Manu?  Thanks for proving my point yet again.  Kobe never gets to the line legit but Manu always does.  Regardless of the fact that Manu is the premier flopper in the league now that Vlade is gone and Fish has lost his step to get himself into position.  You know I enjoyed pointing out your double standards and when you are being an idiot but I guess I have you trained so well that you do it yourself now!!!  :up:

And Kobe dropping from #1 to #3 has to do with the stretch of time then.....he was shooting more outside jumpers because they were dropping for him.  That and he pissed two refs in particular off and they will let him get battered up before they even think about blowing the whistle.
Manu flops on defense, not offense.  When one flops on defense and gets the call, their team is awarded the ball, not free throw attempts.  Something I'm guessing they don't teach you on SouthPark.  But they do teach juvinille vulgarity. :rolleyes:  :nonono:

There you go again...Uhh he flops on offense too, quite a bit also.  LOL @ you thinking you can only flop on the defensive end.  When  someone tosses their body around to make it look like they got more contact than they actually did they are awarded free throws.  Maybe they didnt teach that on Life Goes On Corky.  Do they teach getting your thoughts into words that everyone understands?  

And dont get mad at me because you are smug, get mad at yourself  :up:

[msc]

It really has nothing to do with Kobe or Manu....it has to do with your lack of objectivity.

100% legit foul shooting...LOL why do I not believe that when it comes to Manu?  Thanks for proving my point yet again.  Kobe never gets to the line legit but Manu always does.  Regardless of the fact that Manu is the premier flopper in the league now that Vlade is gone and Fish has lost his step to get himself into position.  You know I enjoyed pointing out your double standards and when you are being an idiot but I guess I have you trained so well that you do it yourself now!!!  :up:

And Kobe dropping from #1 to #3 has to do with the stretch of time then.....he was shooting more outside jumpers because they were dropping for him.  That and he pissed two refs in particular off and they will let him get battered up before they even think about blowing the whistle.

Manu flops on defense, not offense.  When one flops on defense and gets the call, their team is awarded the ball, not free throw attempts.  Something I'm guessing they don't teach you on SouthPark.  But they do teach juvinille vulgarity. :rolleyes:  :nonono:[/QUOTE]

Manu acts like an academy award winner on offense when even slightly grazed.  All Euro's and South American B-ballers do.  They learn it from playing soccer all of their lives.  Not sure if you've ever seen a top level soccer game before but guys are constantly faking that they were fouled when they have the ball.  This happens all the time in the NBA on the OFFENSIVE end of the court and yes, players often get the call and shoot free throws as a result.  I'm singling out the Euro's and this Argentinean, but a lot of American players do it including Kobe and just about any other offensively-minded player that is trying to draw a foul.  Reality, are you really that clueless?  I think there is a first stage SMUG alert in SD County right now.  

So let me get this straight.  If Manu scores the last 14 for his team, he's a stud.  If McGrady scores the last 14 for his team, he's a stud.  If Kobe scores the last 14 for his team, he's a ball hog.  Got it, that makes a lot of sense.

And for a Sixers fan to ever call out Kobe for being selfish is laughable.  I I I verson doesn't even feel he needs to practice, yet his assists are slightly higher  ... so that means he's not selfish?!  Malarkey!  Sure there are times when Kobe could and SHOULD pass and he doesn't, we all know that.  I've seen the same thing with Iverson and McGrady many times over the years.  They all have been guilty of trying to do it themselves at certain points in certain games.  To say Kobe is more selfish than the other two is laughable, especially when he sets the example for the team by showing up to practice and games early, leaving late, training hard in the off-season, playing hurt.  Iverson feels he's above practice and McGrady gets a hangnail and he sits out a month.  Who's really more selfish here?