OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?

[Laker Fan]

And JoMal, preemptive condolenses when the Raiders decide he, like Randy Moss, is worth the baggage he drags along with him.

[Guest_Randy]

Actually, TO and Moss bring FAR different problems, IMO.  Teammates get tired of the Moss circus show but he isn't the cancer to team chemistry that TO brings.  I can't stand Moss -- but I'd rather than Moss than TO on my team (note that I wouldn't sign either player).

[JoMal]

How is Moss working out?

Well, at this point, I suppose he is working out well enough not to include him in any comparisons with Terrell Owens. Moss is supposed to be this disruptive force on his teams, just like Owens. The only problem has been that Randy refuses to be that guy with the Raiders. Instead, he goes about his business and his teammates all think he has been great.

The only real problem has been that we never hear that from Randy; only his Raider teammates have said anything about how he has fit in because Randy is no longer talking to the media at all.

Which, come to think of it, would have worked wonders in Philadelphia if T.O. had followed the same philosophy.

[Guest_Randy]

JoMal,

I don't think that Moss' disruption is the same as TO's.  Moss' distraction came from his off the field antics -- something that he has either quit or kept under raps.  The end effect in Minny was the same (his teammates, fans and management got tired of it) but it isn't quite the same situation as TO's.  TO's distractions are ALL in the lockerroom -- he isn't out running over cops -- he's trying to run over his teammates.  It IS a little different.

TO's situation is a LOT like Keyshawn Johnson -- the difference is that Johnson got a second chance -- this was ALREADY TO's second chance (hmm, didn't he say it was going to be different in Philly?).  Now TO is going to be looking for a THIRD chance -- I wonder who is going to take that kind of risk on him.  

[dbodner-lazy]

TO and Moss are a funny comparison.  Moss' problems are more off the field (although reports of his lack of work on non-moss plays do abound).  TO's problems in the clubhouse.  But I will give TO credit, he said today that he's received more hatred than wife beaters and crack addicts.  Heck, look at the Phillies Urgeth Urbina.  He hasn't received 1/100th of the hatred TO has, and those are some serious allegations.

But blabbering, self centered idiots rub people the wrong way more than less than perfect individuals.  Being a bad teammate is more despicable in the sports world than being a womanizer or a junkie, to the media, fans, and teammates.  And that's why we're in the situation we're in, because TO's rubbed a lot of people the wrong way.  I absolutely would take TO back.  Did everyone forget the 13-1 start and trip to the super bowl?  And with our offensive line and defensive performance, I do not think getting rid of TO solves anything.

[Guest]

Furthermore, you look at what's transpired this week, it's not all that serious, at least nothing individually.  The "fight" (more like shoving match) was instigated by Hugh Douglas.  The comments on ESPN were mainly taken out of context (the full transcript is available on ESPN.com, the but the Favre comment was in direct response to McNabb's injury, not McNabb the player, as he also said he believed they'd be undefeated with a healthy McNabb, and he admitted to being wrong about the team's celebration policy).

Really, the sticking point was that he didn't apologize the way the team wanted him to.  And that's a shame.

[JoMal]

Actually, Owens flat out refused to apologize to McNabb or his teammates and that is why he is off the Eagles team for good. This, after his teammates pleaded with him to do so and management was willing to reinstate him if he did.  

[rickortreat]

It sucks, and it's all the Eagles fault.

1.  The Eagles have always prided themselves on selecting "Callibur players"

2.  TO was not a paragon of virtue in San Francisco, and everyone knew he was not the Eagles "type" of "Character" player, but they went after him anyway.

3.  Even though TO is selfish, arrogant and ignorant, he is a very good wide reciever, and he even worked hard to recover from an injury so he could help the team in the Super Bowl.

4. Everyone talks about TO's change of agents and his rediculous demands for a new contract.  (The Eagles have a history of letting player walk rather than reworking a deal in progress.)  B. Westbrook showed the right way to go about it.

5. TO was an ass all during training camp, but he did get himself into shape and was ready to play at a high level from the start of the season.

6.  The Eagles allowed a number of players on the offensive and defensive line leave, rather than paying them.  They were 9 million under the cap, so it wasn't a lack of money.

7. It became obvious early on that the team was NOT the same as the team that went to the Supe.  Neither the offensive or defensive lines could dominate, which made the defense weaker and put McNabb in a vulnerable position because they can no longer run the ball.  

8.  It is Andy Reid's fault that the team is not winning this year.  He is a lousy coach, and stubborn and stupid too.  He's as arrogant in his own way as TO is.

9.  Knowing who TO was, before signing him, why didn't the Eagles counsel him on how to behave and how to act?  Why did they allow the situation to fester, knowing that TO couldn't understand how wrong he was to act the way he did?

10. Why does the team care what he says, as long as he comes to play?  The reason the Eagles aren't doing well has a lot more to do with the loss of players, Donovan McNabb's injury, and Andy Reid's inability to manage a clock or get plays called in time, to avoid wasting time-outs.

11.  So now, we're a bad team, wasting a year of our "Window" to get to the Super Bowl and win it, because Andy Reid is in over his head as a coach and GM.  He should be in charge of player personell, but not coach, and not negotiate contracts.

In summation, I blame the Eagles for all of this.  They never helped TO, never taught him how to behave himself, or learn how to shut the hell up!  They are ruining the team and McNabb by playing him with a sports hernia and not shoring up the lines.  There's no fun in Eagleville, and there should be.  
 

[Laker Fan]

Dabods, truly a sad state of affairs when you put winning over character with your willingness to take Owens back, I always thought you were above such cheap win at any cost emotions.

Rick, too much wrong with your post to seperate, suffice to say on the main thrust of your post, that being this is the Eagles fault because "They never helped TO, never taught him how to behave himself..." is one of the most ridiculous thing you've said in a history of saying ridiculous things. Owens is a GROWN person!!!! I say person because he is no man. Since when is it ANYONES but his responsibility to "behave himself" Since when are the Eagles responsible for the actions or words of a completely immature, totally self-centered pathetic selfish puke of a human being? Is Philly and its fans that blind and myopic? I thought this type of opinion was reserved for Raider fans. Sad, truly sad.

[Derek Bodner]

Dan: I never said I'd take TO back.  Not once in the post.  All I said was he's not the worst person in the planet, or even the NFL, or probably even the Eagles.  But he's the most annoying, and a terrible teammate.

[rickortreat]

Dan, you are so dumb sometimes I wonder how you manage to get by.

TO is a product of a sick society that places athleticism above intellect.  Throughout his life he has been coddled and his serious character flaws overlooked by people obsessed with winning, from his High School and College football coaches to rabid NFL fans.

His self-centerdness was no impediment to success at any level until the pros, where his lack of consideration and his easy access to national media earned him a quick trip out of SF and subsequently Philly.

What was the point of them getting the premier wide-out in the league and then doing nothing to help him overcome his limitations?  Had the Eagles any sense of foresight or consideration, they could have seen this comming.  They either should have never brought him here, beliving him to be a terminal case,  or been prepared to deal with the inveitable ignorance he has become famous for.

Any player who shows up the other team by taking a pen out of his shoe, signing the football he just scored a touchdown with and then gives the ball to a friend, is a man with a great showman's imagination, and a total "me" person.  This is patently obvious, now that I point it out, isn't it!  Pretty damn imaginative and creative but totally unnaceptable behavoir from anyone with respect for others.

TO is something of a narcissist, he is so insensitive to other's feelings that he runs roughshod over everyone.  This is a man so unaware of his failings that he needs help.

It would have been in the Eagles best interests to help TO and thus would have a great wide out to go along with their great QB.  Instead, in less than two seasons they have lost a player they needed to achieve their objective of winning a Super Bowl.  There are only a handfull of players capable of doing this, and most of them are sewn up and taken good care of by their teams.

The Eagles couldn't even acknowledge his 100th touchdown.  Something guaranteed to set off a narcissist like TO, or anyone who takes a certain pride in their accomplishments.  

This isn't to justify TO's behavior or actions, but the Eagles should have known better and taken steps to deal with him.  That they didn't is as much a flaw of character on their part, as TO's actions reveal his flaws.

Would you think of this episode as a success?  Don't you think that by acting intelligently, the Eagles could have found a way to make this thing work?  TO can't help himself, he has no idea how wrong he is.  The same could be said for the Eagles, I'm not sure why you can't see that.

[Laker Fan]

I absolutely would take TO back.  Did everyone forget the 13-1 start and trip to the super bowl?  And with our offensive line and defensive performance, I do not think getting rid of TO solves anything.

I'm sorry Dabods, is this not your post? If it isn't I apologize, if it is, you feel free to apologize

[Derek Bodner]

I was saying I would have still signed TO last offseason, yes.  You asked how it worked out for us.  I said I'd do it over again.  Maybe I misworded it, but I wouldn't allow TO to play again now, no.

[Laker Fan]

Rick you are so hopelessly ignorant of the meaning of responsibilty and ethical and moral values that if you are representative of Philly fans as a whole, I wonder no more about the sad state of affairs in the "City of Take no Responsibility for your own Actions". Do you want the Eagles to wipe his wittle nose for him too? After all, how dare they not acknowledge that the cold weather up there may have given him a cold! By your criteria I think I'll go out and rob a bank, after all, no one ever gave me a fair shot at life, and no one taught me how to behave!

I guess the Eagles "warning and admonishing him repeatedly" according to Andy Reid was simply not enough for your bleeding heart for poor misguided grown adult Owens. I suppose they should have given in to the little pampered spoiled brats temper tantrums because appeasment is always better than discipline, what a pathetic argument you make. I would take the time to discect and destroy both of your posts point by nonsensical point (not that it would take much effort), but the barf factor involved in having to re-read them would simply be to overpowering to handle. Go ahead and keep him Philly, you deserve each other.

[Laker Fan]

Nice dance there Dabods, you have a future in politics  :rolleyes: