Author Topic: OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?  (Read 5799 times)

Offline Derek Bodner

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #15 on: November 10, 2005, 12:14:49 AM »
Yeah, I spun it  :rolleyes:

The only reason I would spin it is if it really affected me what your opinion of me is.  Frankly (and this isn't mean in any bad way, but this is just the internet), what you think of my opinion doesn't matter.  I have no reason to spin it.

It falls right in line of what you asked in the title of your thread.  I could point you to hundreds of KFFL posts I've made about the eagles, but I'm not really worried about that either.  Believe what you want to believe, I'm just expressing my opinion.

Offline Laker Fan

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #16 on: November 10, 2005, 01:51:00 AM »
That's cool Derek, we all spin things from time to time, although maybe I'm a little obtuse but your explanation on your last post was somewhat nebulous, did you mean my opinion of you mattered enough to attempt to spin it or ????. I actually have a pretty high opinion of you, at least, as you aptly pointed out, as far the anonymous nature of the internet will allow. I know my opinion here matters little if at all to anyone but me, but I will continue to offer it up nevertheless.

I did have to call you on the back pedal you did though, it was hanging out there too big a pass up.
Dan

Offline Derek Bodner

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #17 on: November 10, 2005, 06:59:15 AM »
Ok Dan, you're right, I'm wrong, you know my opinion better than me.

Guest_Randy

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #18 on: November 10, 2005, 08:45:25 AM »
:fire:  :fire:

Wait, dbods, I thought that I was the one who knew your opinions better than you did?  

I'm a little upset now!!!

Offline WayOutWest

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2005, 10:06:33 AM »
Hate to agree with an old fart but Dan is right about TO and Rick.

Lets blame EVERYONE else except for the one who deserves blame.  That weak minded approach to "society" is why our society is crumbling.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline WayOutWest

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #20 on: November 10, 2005, 10:07:58 AM »
Quote
:fire:  :fire:

Wait, dbods, I thought that I was the one who knew your opinions better than you did?  

I'm a little upset now!!!
In all seriousness, opinions are all welcomed but I'm almost always right so opinions really don't come into play with me.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Laker Fan

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #21 on: November 10, 2005, 10:57:57 AM »
Old fart????? Does that make you a snot nosed kid?

Never said you were wrong and I was right Derek, (even though it's true  :D ) and I certainly wasn't trying denigrate you or say your opinion doesn't matter, that appears to be WOW's job, a;though I have always taken the stand that everyone is entitled to agree with my opinion, even WOW.
Dan

Offline Joe Vancil

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #22 on: November 10, 2005, 11:12:00 AM »
What end result makes it worth taking on a person who is egotistical, a bad influence on the team, motivated more by his own recognition, etc.?

Is it a SuperBowl appearance?  Or do you have to win the Superbowl?  

Or are 3 NBA championships enough to justify it?

I mean, come on, folks.  Ego is a big problem, yes, but we seem to be okay with it if Shaquille O'Neal or Kobe Bryant win three championships.  Why jump on Derek because he was happy that Owens helped get the Eagles over the hump and into the SuperBowl?  Is it because now he's a destructive force against his own team?

The bottom line is that for the average fan - or even for a good number of the extraordinary onces - winning erases all the negatives - or, at the very least, turns them from "handicaps" to "obstacles."  One man's Terrell Owens is another man's Kobe Bryant.

 
Joe

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Offline WayOutWest

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #23 on: November 10, 2005, 11:30:48 AM »
Quote
Old fart????? Does that make you a snot nosed kid?
 
I'm more of a middle aged fart.

I'm starting to develop some old fart attitudes and opinions though and it's scary.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline WayOutWest

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #24 on: November 10, 2005, 11:32:05 AM »
Quote
What end result makes it worth taking on a person who is egotistical, a bad influence on the team, motivated more by his own recognition, etc.?

Is it a SuperBowl appearance?  Or do you have to win the Superbowl?  

Or are 3 NBA championships enough to justify it?

I mean, come on, folks.  Ego is a big problem, yes, but we seem to be okay with it if Shaquille O'Neal or Kobe Bryant win three championships.  Why jump on Derek because he was happy that Owens helped get the Eagles over the hump and into the SuperBowl?  Is it because now he's a destructive force against his own team?

The bottom line is that for the average fan - or even for a good number of the extraordinary onces - winning erases all the negatives - or, at the very least, turns them from "handicaps" to "obstacles."  One man's Terrell Owens is another man's Kobe Bryant.
I'm not comming down on anyone or any team for supporting a punk.

I have a problem trying to excuse their behavior or tying to blame "society" for their behavior.
"History shouldn't be a mystery"
"Our story is real history"
"Not his story"

"My people's culture was strong, it was pure"
"And if not for that white greed"
"It would've endured"

"Laker hate causes blindness"

Offline Laker Fan

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #25 on: November 10, 2005, 11:39:42 AM »
And I for one, Joe, would rather the Lakers have dumped Kobe Bryant when all that disgusting filth happened rather than keep him because the Lakers were legitimate title contenders, , and I said so then. I'm still not happy with the Lakers for keeping him, although he seems intent on rehabilitating his badly tarnished image at this point, perhaps proving that he is at least intelligent enough to recognize the error of his ways, the jury is still out though, at least until we see how this season plays out. I was also more than willing to see Shaq go after he proved he was all about himself and not the team, and I said so then.

I would rather root for a mediocre team who maintains its dignity and ethical character (see Utah Jazz, San Antonio Spurs) rather than adopt a win at all costs mentality, I may be an exception but that is just the way I am.

I also agree ego is the driving force of most athletes, which is why I so admire and respect the rare ones who do not seem to be so much ego driven as just pure athletes who like to compete and give you their all because they buy into the team concept, current prime examples are Tim Duncan and Andre Kirilenko, both very tellingly from the aforementioned teams in Utah and San Antonio, teams that appear to put character very high on their priority list. The Lakers used to be in that company, hope they get bachk there.

I completely agree with you Joe, "One man's Terrell Owens is another man's Kobe Bryant", but if his history is any indication, Owens is the leopard who seems unable to change his spots.
 
Dan

Guest_Randy

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #26 on: November 10, 2005, 11:52:34 AM »
Quote
In all seriousness, opinions are all welcomed but I'm almost always right so opinions really don't come into play with me.

You know, WOW, when I want your opinion -- I'll give it to you!  

Quote
I mean, come on, folks. Ego is a big problem, yes, but we seem to be okay with it if Shaquille O'Neal or Kobe Bryant win three championships. Why jump on Derek because he was happy that Owens helped get the Eagles over the hump and into the SuperBowl? Is it because now he's a destructive force against his own team?

Umm, I'm not sure that I would lump Shaq and/or Kobe in with TO.  They both caused problems with the team and chemistry but I think there is a BIG difference when you start coming out knocking your coach and management -- Shaq and Kobe didn't do that.  

As for egos, they are HUGE in the area of sports.  Even role players have egos -- like Dennis Johnson who won championships just sitting on the bench in Boston!  But he THOUGHT he was something special!!!  There are a TON of players who have never proven themselves but still think they are gods gift to their sport.  Ego IS part of sports -- and you actually HAVE to have some of that ego to excel -- however, that ego has to be kept in check to some extent.  If the individual can't keep that ego in check -- then someone else has to help him keep that in check.  Personally, I think the Eagles could have done a better job with TO all along but it doesn't excuse TO from a situation he made for himself.

And Shaq and Kobe are BOTH excellect examples of egos that run amuck.  It was PJ's job to rein those egos in but, unfortunately, he has an ego as big as either of those two and he just aided to the whole problem.  

Kobe was wrong to be selfish, he was wrong to not defer to Shaq and submit to his coach.

Shaq was wrong to be selfish and he was wrong not to recognize that he needed Kobe as much as Kobe needed him.  Shaq made things worse by allowing his physical condition to deteriorate and all the stupid comments he constantly made about his contract extension to the press (and anyone who would listen).

PJ was wrong by not trying to resolve the problem.  In doing so, he actually became a catalyst to a problem that it was HIS job to resolve.  PJ also would rather use the press to chastise his players with his little comments -- while Shaq responds fairly well to this kind of manipulation -- Kobe does not.

rickortreat

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2005, 07:03:03 PM »

Rick you are so hopelessly ignorant of the meaning of responsibilty and ethical and moral values that if you are representative of Philly fans as a whole, I wonder no more about the sad state of affairs in the "City of Take no Responsibility for your own Actions". Do you want the Eagles to wipe his wittle nose for him too? After all, how dare they not acknowledge that the cold weather up there may have given him a cold! By your criteria I think I'll go out and rob a bank, after all, no one ever gave me a fair shot at life, and no one taught me how to behave!

I guess the Eagles "warning and admonishing him repeatedly" according to Andy Reid was simply not enough for your bleeding heart for poor misguided grown adult Owens. I suppose they should have given in to the little pampered spoiled brats temper tantrums because appeasment is always better than discipline, what a pathetic argument you make. I would take the time to discect and destroy both of your posts point by nonsensical point (not that it would take much effort), but the barf factor involved in having to re-read them would simply be to overpowering to handle. Go ahead and keep him Philly, you deserve each other.

Moron: you obviously don't understand my post, so just once more, because I am a compassionate, sincere individual, I'll try to help you understand.

First off, if you can't articulate why you think I'm wrong, you have no buisness posting.  I could care less about your ignorant opinions, but if you have a valid reason for thinking the way you do, that would pique my interest.  However your unwillingness to do so, and you're pathetic reason for not doing so, or responding to my points suggests that you can't.

Second, I never said that TO shouldn't be called to task for his behavior, or that he should be forgiven with no penalty.  What I said was, the Eagles knew what they were gettting with TO, and it is their fault that they did nothing to help him.

This is where morality comes into it.  It's all very well and good to denounce people for being wrong, but the simple truth is that none of us are without flaw.  Additionally some of us have different flaws and different areas where we posses true knowledge.  Some of us simply can't see where we are wrong, and this is where we need the assistance of others to help us to right ourselves.

TO is in need of this, as his personality is somehwat destructive and certainly inspires contempt from others.  He can't help himself, as you seem to imagine.  He simply CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY the Eagles would sever their relationship with them.  He has no idea that he is WRONG, even thought that is obvious to everyone else.  This is a deep psychological limitation that TO has, if he was able to deal with it, he wouldn't have acted in the way he did,

But the Eagles, who were in a postion to help and had an interest in doing so for the sake of the teams success failed to act.  It wasn't enough to punish him; as this did nothing to change his behavior.  It is obvious that the ability to deal with this was beyond him.  As oppossed to your analogy about robbing a bank. You know damn well that that is wrong and if you went ahead and did it anyway, you would deserve to be punished.  If after that you went out and did it again, it would be apparent that something else was reguired to help you live in harmony in this society.  Sometimes people get so bad that they're beyond help.  Sometimes you just have to kill them.

In effect the Eagles killed TO's career with them, and it is entirely their fault.  They shouldn't have brought him here in the first place, knowing how he behaved in SF.  There was no reason to expect that he'd be any different here, and his antics throught the last season revealed that.  This conflict was inevitable, because TO couldn't help himself, and the Eagles didn't do anything to help him with this problem.

The end result is that the Eagles loose a key componenent in their chance to win a Super Bowl.  I wonder how Philly fans will feel if he ends up in Atlanta with Michael Vick and they and the Eagels meet and TO wins the game for the Falcons.  THAT would have a certain poetic justice to it, and be exaclty what the Eagles deserve for their negligence.
 

Offline Laker Fan

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2005, 07:26:49 PM »
Beyond the pale Rick, beyond the pale. WOW is 110% correct, the blame society for an individuals ills you espouse is the reason society is breaking down. Give me just a small break with the he can't help himself garbage! He can and he chooses not to, and idiotic ideology's such as yours will continue to empower his behaviour, continue tell him there are no consequences for his actions. People change because they want to, whether it is because they are forced to by circumstances or because of some epiphany does not matter, the better angels of some people's nature motivates change because it may be the right thing to do. People who do not change do not change not because the Eagles "didn't help them", but rather because they are narcissistic jerks who don't care, and because social panderers to the absolutely idotic blame society philosophy tell them it's not their fault. And yes, if I robbed a bank a second time it would be apparent I need "help", and that help should be in the form of locking me up and throwing away the stinking key! Better yet, take that avenue the first time and I certainly wouldn't rob a bank the second time, now would I?

So then Ownes needs "help", the poor little misguided social illiterate, I say the "help" comes in the form of never being able to play in the NFL again, but alas! bleeding heart empowerers of sociopathic behaviour such as yourself will continue to blame society, in this case, the Eagles locker room, for poor wittle baby Owens, and the behaviour will continue, pathetic, truly pathetic.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2005, 07:27:42 PM by Laker Fan »
Dan

rickortreat

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OT: So Philly, how's that Owens thing working out?
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2005, 08:06:56 PM »
I didn't create this pathetic society that tolerates this behaviour, or overlooks it.  The first time Owens tried that ME ME crap on his High School team the rest of the team should have kicked his ass.  Instead they said, TO you're the greatest and they made allowances for any faulty behaviour he had.

Do you understand this?  It doesn't justify his behaviour, but the lack of negative consequences made him worse and worse.  He suffered no ill effects from his behavior until the 49ers got rid of him.  And, the effect were hardly significant, he had TWO teams begging for his services and willing to pay him big money to do it.

Irrespective of what happens with the Eagles, it is a lock that some other team will overlook his character defects and give him a chance to play football again.

He may make the same mistake over and over again, as long as he is a premier reciever in the league, and will never suffer any serious consequences because some other team will pay him.  TO may be an ASS, but he also KNOWS that some team will offer him an absurd amount of money to play football for them.

His new fans will adore him, chat, TO, TO, TO, TO!  And ignore all the warnings from the people in SF and Philly about what a jackass he is.  

You may say you'd rather root for a mediocre team that plays clean, but you're in a minority.  Most people think winning is the only thing that matters, and make TO into a hero.  This is why this society is sick, they tolerate this type of behavior and even enjoy it.  That doesn't make society resonsible for TO being the way he is, but it certainly is an enabler, not my attitude that he needs help!