Disgusted again.

[Joe Vancil]

Isnt it common among all males? Especially married ones?

**Katchaturian's "Saber Dance" playing in the background**

(At times like this, I miss being able to choose my handle on the fly.  This is much funnier if it's posted from Genghis.)
 

[rickortreat]

WOW, I was talking about what the Church did to you.  I get very pissed when anyone uses God as leverage over anyone.  Uses your normal, healthy, respect for the almighty to corrupt you and misdirect you.

The Church posses as a representative of God, and uses that to gain power, authority and control over others to which they are not entitled.  It is a scam of the first order.

It wasn't anything about you, personally.  Sorry for any misunderstanding.

[Guest_Randy]

God has nothing to do with the Catholic Church.  What the Church says it is, and what it really is are two different things.

The Church was the original political power to dominate the world after the collapse of the Roman Empire.

The Church controlled reading and writing, learning, technology and money.  They supported some at the expense of others. (that after all is what power is about for the small-minded) And have dominated politics in every area until they were thrown out.

Martin Luther and Henry the 8th both jettisoned the Catholic church.  Between them and the scottish enlightenment the Church was chased out of political power all over Europe.
The US was free from the Chuch from the beggining, and there was a big distrust of Catholic immigrants when they came to America.

The way to deal with this is to take away the Church's status as a religion.  Tax them as a business- they run private schools and own a lot of property.  This way you could place some governmental oversight on the Church and force them to report pedophelia, and prosecute higher ups for aiding and abetting.

This of course would piss of the hierarchy, but I can't think of a more appropriate way to deal with them.  I really don't know, but I would imagine enough Catholics are so distraught over this abuse of power, that they recognize that something needs to be done.

What WOW wrote really made me more upset than anything.  Mind control is the opposite of what a religion should be about.  A false belief system and handing yourself over to a God that isn't there and places the onus on you to exercise your free will to develop is a very serious mistake, and can only result in a perpetuation of  suffering for all involved.

Martin Luther and Henry the 8th both jettisoned the Catholic church.  Between them and the scottish enlightenment the Church was chased out of political power all over Europe.
The US was free from the Chuch from the beggining, and there was a big distrust of Catholic immigrants when they came to America.

This is a bit of a generalization, Rick.  Martin Luther didn't set out to "jettison" the Catholic church -- he set out to REFORM the Catholic Church -- that didn't work and they banned Luther from Catholicism, which left him no choice but to begin what has become the Lutheran Church today.

As for Henry the 8th, he "jettisoned" the church because they wouldn't allow him to divorce his wife (remember how many wives the guy had and how he managed to get RID of his wives?).  Henry the 8th began his own church because the Pope wouldn't bow down to him -- the Pope wasn't wrong, IMO, to tell Henry the 8th that he couldn't just marry and divorce his many wives simply because he got tired of them.  It was pretty obvious that Henry just wanted to be able to do anything he wanted -- doesn't sound like he really had a problem with Catholicism except for the fact that the Pope wouldn't let him do whatever he wanted.

Now there WERE many who were dissatisfied with the iron hand from which the Catholic Church operated.

I will say that while the US was free from Catholicism -- the Anglican church had quite a hold in the Carolina's -- perhaps the strongest area of England in the US.

A false belief system and handing yourself over to a God that isn't there and places the onus on you to exercise your free will to develop is a very serious mistake, and can only result in a perpetuation of  suffering for all involved.

Rick, our country has fought and died for the rights of people to believe whatever they wish.  IMO, it's what a person CHOOSES to believe in -- even atheism is a choice of belief.  Whether you choose to belief in a god or choose to make your own god (yourself, money, family, job, etc.) -- I think it's important to remember that we have given people FREEDOM to believe what they desire.  And those rights have to be protected until the infringe on the rights of others.

[rickortreat]

I agree totally Randy, but it was more than religious freedom, but all freedoms, the right to own property, the ability to make something of yourself without depending on the favor of a King or a lord.

America was a big departure from the old system of control, of which both the Church and the Monarchs were a big part.

The American revoultion was a big deal back then.  Still is today, as our freedoms are being rollled back here, and everywhere else where there is suppossedly a democracy we have a new style of facsism comming.  In Europe the members of the EUC are not elected by the people, and are almost immune from prosectution.  In the US, we have the illusion of freedom and the protection of the constitution, but there are a number of laws which contradict the constitution, and cause us to suffer indirectly.

Sometimes it doesn't seem like much, but I've been very fortunate to be a free thinker, and to have avoided so much of the evil that exists in the world.  When I look at other people and what they've been through, I realize I've led a pretty charmed existance.  

[WayOutWest]

WOW, I was talking about what the Church did to you.  I get very pissed when anyone uses God as leverage over anyone.  Uses your normal, healthy, respect for the almighty to corrupt you and misdirect you.

The Church posses as a representative of God, and uses that to gain power, authority and control over others to which they are not entitled.  It is a scam of the first order.

It wasn't anything about you, personally.  Sorry for any misunderstanding.

I think you're referring to westkoast, I didn't really ever get sucked into religion.  My familiy was Catholic but it was too booring for me to get into.

[westkoast]

WOW, I was talking about what the Church did to you.  I get very pissed when anyone uses God as leverage over anyone.  Uses your normal, healthy, respect for the almighty to corrupt you and misdirect you.

The Church posses as a representative of God, and uses that to gain power, authority and control over others to which they are not entitled.  It is a scam of the first order.

It wasn't anything about you, personally.  Sorry for any misunderstanding.

I think you are reffering to me.  If you guys mix me up with that Carlos Mencia-rip off we call WayOutWest one more time I am going to scream.

"What WOW wrote really made me more upset than anything. Mind control is the opposite of what a religion should be about. A false belief system and handing yourself over to a God that isn't there and places the onus on you to exercise your free will to develop is a very serious mistake, and can only result in a perpetuation of suffering for all involved. "

Thats how this church operates.  Ive also been to christian church and they do it also, just not in the same fashion.  Much more mild.    Using the fear of a horrible afterlife  to keep members "on track" (which is a sugar coated way of saying in line) is not exclusive to the Catholic Church.  All the major religions use the fear of an unpleasent afterlife to make the case for why you need to do what they say.

This is a major problem, which is the church and the parents embed this way of thinking into the childs head.  Unless the child comes to realize, on his own, that something isnt right (like I did) he will grow up with that way of thinking.  You are trained to feel a certain way when you "sin".  God isnt making you feel like that but they sure as hell will tell you he is.  Did the good lord really take time out of his day to make poor little westkoast feel like he had been stabbed several times with a butter knife in his torso because he saw 30 seconds of a porno?  Nope!  That or hes been lazy since then because ive seen plenty of porn and dont have the same feeling anymore!  That was me doing it to myself because of what was drilled into my head.  Now THAT is a real problem.  The strongest form of mind control you can do.  Heck, during colonization how do you think Spain got the people of the areas they were absorbing into their empire to eventually fall into line?........you guessed it!

The Christian church(s) doesnt put the same kind of pressure and mentality into their members, at least not to my knowledge.  Im sure some do but across the board I think its safe to assume its in the minority not the majority.  I could do without both but I do believe there is a higher being.  He just didnt have a son who looks like he just left a greatful dead concert.

[rickortreat]

yes, Westcoast I was referring to what you posted.  It's brainwashing, pure and simple, and a good example of evil in the world.

And now for another example of bone-headed idiocy, a Woman is refusing to leave her home in Algiers, LA, saying that "you can't run from the power of God"  A hurricane is merely natures way of using up excess energy from the Sun,  it is of God as everything else is, according to the laws of physics in the material world.

Man is also of God, and has satellites to track storms, and provide advance warning that the storm is comming.  If your too stupid to leave, and you drown, don't go complaining to God.  He gave you every opportunity to use your brain and make the decision to leave.  He's say, :"I didn't intend for you to die, you knew the hurricane was comming and you stayed!"

By the way a hurricane releases a lot more energy than the h-bombs we used on Japan.  Makes you realize how small and insignificant we are.  A hurricane is huge to us, but is completly insignificant compared with the power of the Sun.