Author Topic: A.I. and Webber to reduce salaries  (Read 9254 times)

Offline JoMal

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A.I. and Webber to reduce salaries
« Reply #15 on: July 26, 2005, 06:45:39 PM »
:D  :D  :D  :D

What should have clued you in was that Webber has no son, or any other child to call his own.

But beyond that, a derelict saves his 'sons' life, asks for nothing and just hobbles off into the sunset??


 :D  :D  :D

And a Philadelphia derelict at that. In that town, the derelict would have held the kid in front of traffic until Chris had emptied his pockets.
« Last Edit: July 26, 2005, 06:47:40 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Reality

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« Reply #16 on: July 26, 2005, 07:08:54 PM »
Quote
:D  :D  :D  :D

What should have clued you in was that Webber has no son, or any other child to call his own.

But beyond that, a derelict saves his 'sons' life, asks for nothing and just hobbles off into the sunset??


 :D  :D  :D

And a Philadelphia derelict at that. In that town, the derelict would have held the kid in front of traffic until Chris had emptied his pockets.
Homeless = derelict?
Homeless people couldn't possibly have virtuous qualities?

Booooooo.
Mr. Ivory Tower, get that off my thread.

Offline Joe Vancil

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A.I. and Webber to reduce salaries
« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2005, 09:27:13 AM »
And athletes can't enjoy the thrill of competition rather than an easy ring?

Mr. Greed-is-King, get off of your soapbox.
 
Joe

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Offline JoMal

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« Reply #18 on: July 27, 2005, 11:39:24 AM »
Quote
Homeless = derelict?
Homeless people couldn't possibly have virtuous qualities?

Booooooo.
Mr. Ivory Tower, get that off my thread.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but homeless/derelict people have the same proportions of virtuous qualities as anybody else.  
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

rickortreat

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A.I. and Webber to reduce salaries
« Reply #19 on: July 27, 2005, 11:49:39 AM »
"homeless and derelect people have the same proportions of virtuous qualities as anyone else"

Really!?

They clearly lack the virtue of being responsible with money.  They lack the virtue of personal respnsibility.  They lack the virtue of appearing to be realiable or employable.

Perhaps they have other virtues to compnesate for their lack in these areas.  Let's see cleanliness?  Hmm, pretty hard when you don't have access to potable running water.

Intellect?  Unlikely, since who would choose to live that way if they could avoid it?

More religious?  I don't consider a belief that has no impact on your real life matters.

Just what kind of virtues are you taling about JoMal?  

Offline JoMal

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« Reply #20 on: July 27, 2005, 12:04:50 PM »
Quote
"homeless and derelect people have the same proportions of virtuous qualities as anyone else"

Really!?

They clearly lack the virtue of being responsible with money.  They lack the virtue of personal respnsibility.  They lack the virtue of appearing to be realiable or employable.

Perhaps they have other virtues to compnesate for their lack in these areas.  Let's see cleanliness?  Hmm, pretty hard when you don't have access to potable running water.

Intellect?  Unlikely, since who would choose to live that way if they could avoid it?

More religious?  I don't consider a belief that has no impact on your real life matters.

Just what kind of virtues are you taling about JoMal?
I was just being as polite as possible in regards to Reality's comment.  
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Reality

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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2005, 09:48:26 AM »
Quote
And athletes can't enjoy the thrill of competition rather than an easy ring?

Mr. Greed-is-King, get off of your soapbox.
The competition on a .500 team that tanks in Round 1 or misses the playoffs is no where near the Playoff comp of Conf Finals and Finals.  

Easy ring?  You obviously missed the 1986 playoffs.  Billy W, Sichting and the Celts were pushed plenty hard.

Easy ring had Speedy Claxton done the right thing and stayed Spur?  He might have offset the Lakers gift of Malone and Payton but it would not have been "easy".
 

Offline Reality

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« Reply #22 on: July 28, 2005, 09:52:31 AM »
Quote
Quote
Homeless = derelict?
Homeless people couldn't possibly have virtuous qualities?

Booooooo.
Mr. Ivory Tower, get that off my thread.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but homeless/derelict people have the same proportions of virtuous qualities as anybody else.
My bubble that you are making up or my bubble that homeless people are people too?

Maybe you'll actually have some intereactions with one of them someday.  Find out what made them homeless.  Might change your perspective.
 

Offline Joe Vancil

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« Reply #23 on: July 28, 2005, 10:12:26 AM »
I'd argue that the team that played the hardest and truly competed the most of the teams that I've seen was the 1999-2000 Orlando Magic team.  They didn't even make the playoffs.  They were a .500 team.

Would I have rather played on the 2000 Magic, or on the 1995 Magic, that went to the Finals?  Give me the 2000 Magic.  In fact, give me the 2000 Magic over this year's Spurs team - the championship team.

The 1986 playoffs?  Yeah - Boston was really pushed hard.  Little Jerry Sichting fought off 7-4 Ralph Sampson, and lived to state, "My 3-year-old hits harder."  Come on.  That series was over before it began.

There are players who love to win, and there are players who HAVE TO MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE.  The ultimate situation is one where you can do both.  But the closer I am to a top-level player, the more likely I am to want people to come join *MY TEAM*, and the more likely I am to believe that it doesn't really matter what team I join, because I'll help them that much.

Would I like a cakewalk to the ring?  Yeah, I would.  EVERYONE WOULD.  But only ONCE.  From then on, I want to *FIGHT* for the ring every step of the way.  I might even enjoy DEFENDING the championship more than WINNING it.

Competition is almost drug-like in many ways.  The thrill and exhileration make for a great rush, and there's no feeling like collapsing from exhaustion after a game when you know you've left everything on the court.

 
Joe

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Offline Reality

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« Reply #24 on: July 28, 2005, 11:09:42 AM »
Quote
I'd argue that the team that played the hardest and truly competed the most of the teams that I've seen was the 1999-2000 Orlando Magic team.  They didn't even make the playoffs.  They were a .500 team.

Would I have rather played on the 2000 Magic, or on the 1995 Magic, that went to the Finals?  Give me the 2000 Magic.  In fact, give me the 2000 Magic over this year's Spurs team - the championship team.

The 1986 playoffs?  Yeah - Boston was really pushed hard.  Little Jerry Sichting fought off 7-4 Ralph Sampson, and lived to state, "My 3-year-old hits harder."  Come on.  That series was over before it began.

There are players who love to win, and there are players who HAVE TO MAKE A REAL DIFFERENCE.  The ultimate situation is one where you can do both.  But the closer I am to a top-level player, the more likely I am to want people to come join *MY TEAM*, and the more likely I am to believe that it doesn't really matter what team I join, because I'll help them that much.

Would I like a cakewalk to the ring?  Yeah, I would.  EVERYONE WOULD.  But only ONCE.  From then on, I want to *FIGHT* for the ring every step of the way.  I might even enjoy DEFENDING the championship more than WINNING it.

Competition is almost drug-like in many ways.  The thrill and exhileration make for a great rush, and there's no feeling like collapsing from exhaustion after a game when you know you've left everything on the court.
<The ultimate situation is one where you can do both. >

We are in total agreement.  I need  to make a difference, the ultimate if I am making a difference in the *finals* vs another team that is matched up well against my team.  More ultimate if we prevail fairly.

So you do want to win at least one title.  Un huh.
Defending title may be more enjoyable?  Aha, my point exactly, Speedy Claxton.
Steve Kerr.  These players made a difference.

"Cakewalk" no way.  Gm 4 Rockets were 1 minute away from tying the series 2-2 and having Game 5 in Hou.  Ultimately Celts won -barely, 106-103.  Other Celts definitely commented on how hard Hou pushed them.  Ealier Celt 1986 playoff opponents, okay supreme cakewalk.

While we agree on playing, making a difference and the ultimate being doing all the aforementioned in a title series.....

Stephon Marbury, Chris Webber, Allan houston, Scotty Pippen final year with Blazers (not the ECFs choker-ref rigged game 7 but the next two years)..

You are *NOT* going to tell me these players are/were sucking down 10-18 million a year because "The thrill and exhileration make for a great rush, and there's no feeling like collapsing from exhaustion after a game when you know you've left everything on the court."

They are doing it solely for the cash.  Title is not even a consideration.  We can agree to disagree on whether this is the "right" thing to do.
« Last Edit: July 28, 2005, 11:44:47 AM by Reality »

Offline JoMal

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« Reply #25 on: July 28, 2005, 12:39:43 PM »
Quote
Quote
Quote
Homeless = derelict?
Homeless people couldn't possibly have virtuous qualities?

Booooooo.
Mr. Ivory Tower, get that off my thread.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but homeless/derelict people have the same proportions of virtuous qualities as anybody else.
My bubble that you are making up or my bubble that homeless people are people too?

Maybe you'll actually have some intereactions with one of them someday.  Find out what made them homeless.  Might change your perspective.
How? Changing my perspective by making it worse?

My opinion of the homeless based on my personal interaction has been this -

1. My mother went to the post office. A man was standing next to the drop off mail boxes. As people drove up, many gave the man some money as he was panhandling. As my mother's business was inside the post office, she just observed him from there. As she looked on, a women in a new Cadillac drove up. The man walked over to the car and handed the women a huge wad of bills that he had been collecting all day and she drove off.

2. I was approached by a man once at Jack London Square in Oakland and again in Old Sacramento here, and again at a gas station here in town . On each occasion, I was told a sob story about a needy family member/I just need bus fare to get to a sick relative, yada yada, yada. On the first two occasions, as soon as I gave the man some money, he snickered and said something like, "...and if I happen to pass a liquor store on the way, I just might pop in and enjoy myself first." The man at the gas station, I shut down before he got too far into his story and told him the next person he tried that sh*t on, he might not breathe too hard in his face so as not to be overwhelmed by this liquor-breath.

3. I take walks on occasion around downtown at lunchtime. This is often no more then three blocks or so. On at least three of these times, I have been asked for money by no fewer then five individuals in less then thirty minutes. That is a bit overwhelming for anyone to deal with. It got so bad a few years ago, the city police had to step in and clear out the derelicts from the area. You see, Reality, the shop owners were losing some business because of the urine smell covering their doorways every morning. Seems that no one was much interested in shopping with that stench. Once this problem was "redirected" and that is basically what happened, business picked up and now downtown Sacramento has a better economy.

4. Union Square in San Francisco. Macy's, St Francis Hotel, The Bank of America Building, 5th Avenue  - upscale places, plus the Square itself has been upgraded and looks pretty nice. The crowds on any given weekend are large and diverse.

And I can guarantee you, if you spend any time there, especially sitting at a little curbside cafe table at a coffee shop my wife and I like, you will literally be attacked by panhandlers. Somewhat psycho ones at that. The ranter types who do not take no for an answer. I have had homeless women thrust babies at me screaming for money. I am sure she is a good mother, how could she not be, with those track marks on her arm? I should help her and the other drunks feed their habits?

Are these the "self-choice" derelicts you are talking about who's circumstances I should be more sympathic with?

This is what I do try to do, Reality. I contribute to a charity that works to help those people who really want to get off the streets and improve their lives. There is an organization that sponsors restaurants and trains people to be in that industry. The food is not bad. One is located next to the hotel we always stay at in Seattle, so we see them every morning when we go in. They also have a bar, so you can imagine the temptation for some of them.

But these people clearly are TRYING to be something more.

Do you get the difference?
« Last Edit: July 28, 2005, 12:42:22 PM by JoMal »
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

Offline Joe Vancil

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« Reply #26 on: July 28, 2005, 01:09:46 PM »
Reality,

Quote
While we agree on playing, making a difference and the ultimate being doing all the aforementioned in a title series.....

Stephon Marbury, Chris Webber, Allan houston, Scotty Pippen final year with Blazers (not the ECFs choker-ref rigged game 7 but the next two years)..

You are *NOT* going to tell me these players are/were sucking down 10-18 million a year because "The thrill and exhileration make for a great rush, and there's no feeling like collapsing from exhaustion after a game when you know you've left everything on the court."

They are doing it solely for the cash. Title is not even a consideration. We can agree to disagree on whether this is the "right" thing to do.

Actually, I'm going to tell you that EVERY ONE of those players you mentioned with the exception of Marbury MAY HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR THE COMPETITION.  Amazingly enough, EVERY ONE of those guys, except for Marbury, signed their contracts to play on a team that had a chance for a title.

Pippen signed on with Houston, and was traded to Portland.

Houston signed with New York following their 1999 title run.

Webber signed for the max with an emerging Sacramento team that pushed L.A. for several years.

When they signed their deals, they were pursuing a title.  So you want to criticize them now for HONORING their contracts?  That's BENEATH low.  What would you be saying if Allan Houston was pushing for New York to buy him out so he could go play in Miami?  Or if Pippen whined until Portland traded him to the Lakers?  Wouldn't you be accusing them of trying to have their cake and eat it, too?

By your theory, Duncan should have discarded San An's offer to go sign with the Lakers - be the power forward that Shaq and Kobe needed.  For the mid-level exception, no less.  After all, it was clear that the Lakers were on the rise, and David Robinson wasn't going to be around forever....

 
Joe

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Club (baby) seals, not sandwiches!

Guest_Randy

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« Reply #27 on: July 28, 2005, 01:33:48 PM »
Quote
By your theory, Duncan should have discarded San An's offer to go sign with the Lakers - be the power forward that Shaq and Kobe needed. For the mid-level exception, no less. After all, it was clear that the Lakers were on the rise, and David Robinson wasn't going to be around forever....

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Joe,  :hail:  this was tooooo good!!!

Finally, SOMEONE that will make Reality SHUT UP!!!!

Oh, my sides are hurting -- gotta quit laughing!!!

Offline Reality

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« Reply #28 on: July 28, 2005, 01:34:33 PM »
Quote
But these people clearly are TRYING to be something more.

Do you get the difference?
Your entire experiences with homeless has been they have all been scamming no goods? :rolleyes:   How about "but homeless/derelict people have the same proportions of virtuous qualities as anybody else."?

I compliment you 100% for contributing to the charity that seeks out those who really are interested in becoming self sufficient.

Indeed was it not you that posted about a college teacher who took the freway offramp "help I'm hugry" to the test.  Parked his 'Benz a mile from the offramp, changed into some grungy looking clothes and collected several hundred dollars a day.

We are in complete agreement that discretion should be used 100%.  

Here is but one experience i had.  I bought a weatherbeaten looking man a cup of coffee.  He sat next to me in the outside cafe.  (I hear you Jomal, he was fairly clean and we did not distract other patrons.)  I found out where he slept.  Struck up some repore with him.  As time progressed I told him i wanted to know what r-e-a-l-l-y happened.  What really lead to his homelessness.  I wanted to create a comfort zone whereupon he could confide in me his real situation was.  Long short from the age of 2 to the age of 8 he had a pair of high ranking men of the cloth, i wont I.d. the religion as indeed molesters are in all faiths and atheism.  However lets just say this is the one that is known best for it as they reward their pedophiles with advancement, legal protection including hassling the victims.  The one held him down while the other...

When he finally spoke up and informal complaints were filed the old "victimize the victim" was enacted 100%.

You could say he didn't trust athority figures.  This affected his life.
He's much better now.  Has a job.  He'll only be so "good" until God comes and ends this system we live under.  But he's enduring.  He has hope.

So I look for those homeless.  Guess I'm sensitive when "derelict" is applied, and i know you were just bringing some levity and in fact there are no doubt a few derelict homeless who would have held Chriss Webbers son in front of the car for more money.  B)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2005, 01:37:02 PM by Reality »

Offline Reality

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« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2005, 01:39:30 PM »
Quote
Actually, I'm going to tell you that EVERY ONE of those players you mentioned with the exception of Marbury MAY HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR THE COMPETITION.
HAVE BEEN.  Whoopie doo.  "At the time they signed on."

"Honoring" their contracts.  

Spare me.