Inadvertant whistle

[Reality]

Man i'm glad I didn't see that live.

Congratulations Lakers.

[westkoast]

Its not often you say Congrads but I dont think I can fully enjoy it when the Lakers need a last second 3 point shot by Rush to win against the Nuggets.  They are not going ANYWHERE in the playoffs if they continue to play defense like that.  The Wolves and the Spurs are tightning up those screws on the defensive end for the playoffs and the Lakers are still F-ing around.  A W is a W but damn.....how many times you gonna let Melo burn you before you decide to guard him?

Big Props to Luke Walton for not only grabbing a steal to bring them within 2 but for the unselfish drive and kick for the game winner.  Rush got all the love after the game but it was Luke who set that up nicely.

[Reality]

Actually I was being sarcastic.  
However it was not just the inadvertant whistle that gave them the win.  As you mentioned the Luke steal and layup at 55 seconds was just as huge, along with the final drive and outpass.  

I wonder if Denver thought of fouling the Big Apestotle on the Lakers final possesion?  While Shrak has been known to roll two in when it counts, i like the idea of getting the ball back with plenty of time and MY team having the final shot, again worst case scene would have been OT at home.  Chancing that your D will hold is also OK but giving up a wide wide open three when you are guaranteed at the absolute worst being tied and Overtime is inexcusable.  

The Flamers stike zero fear in anyone with hoop sense.  Yes the MailCheap will indeed help their cause but last nights escape job is just yet another.....
 

[westkoast]

They may not strike fear into the Marketing Avenger but that doesn't mean other teams in the West are not thinking about how well the Lakers have played in the playoffs over the last 4 years.  3 titles and one 2nd round loss in 4 years does say something.  Whether you want to be in denial or not...or your hoop sense is superior to the coaching staff of other teams, they still are thinking about them.

As for fouling Shaq, do it!  You have a much better chance putting Shaq on the line then you do if you try to play straight up defense.  He nails 2 and you still have the ball.  He misses 1 and its still a one possesion game with the ball in your hands.

[Reality]

"do not strike fear" or as you changed it to "still thinking about them".

Huge difference.  Deny the difference if you wish but yes I've had them as title contenders all along with MN Kings SAS and even others.

That they recieved two HOFs at minimal cost and we have to question whether or not they will win the title is pretty pathetic.  

 

[Lurker]

Only problem with fouling Shaq in that situation is that he has to have the ball.  If he doesn't have the ball then Jackson can pick any player to shoot one FT and the Lakers retain possession.  This only happens in the last 2 minutes of the game.  It is commonly referred to as the Shaq rule since it was added 4-5 years ago when teams would almost exclusively use the hack-a-Shaq down the stretch of close games.

 :ph34r:  

[Reality]

Lurker what don't you do.

Quoting totally applicable rules, showing tech stuff in using de boardzes.
Has some ships and salsa on me and i sure want to make it down to the San Antonio town come playoff times.

Westkoast we are agreeing the Lakers pretty much suck right now.  Lets wait 12 more hours and see whats up after tonights Kings game.

[Randy]

"do not strike fear" or as you changed it to "still thinking about them".

Huge difference.  Deny the difference if you wish but yes I've had them as title contenders all along with MN Kings SAS and even others.

That they recieved two HOFs at minimal cost and we have to question whether or not they will win the title is pretty pathetic.

The Lakers aren't playing as well now as they were toward the beginning of the season -- a lot of that due to injuries and lack of playing time on the court together.  They need to "gel" and they need Karl back to really give them their shot at the title.  Take Karl out at PF and who do the Lakers have?  Horace Grant?  I like Grant a lot but he can't play anything but backup minutes and Medvendenko isn't a good defensive player and/or rebounder.  The Lakers are going to need all 4 HOF's to make a run at the title -- but I think the same could be said for most teams in the WC, at this point, because the West is so tough.

As for "fear," who do you think fears the Spurs?  The Lakers?  The Mavs?  The Kings?  The TWolves?  I don't think any of those teams fear each other -- I think they respect each other (okay, maybe the Kings and the Lakers don't respect each other but they do respect their abilities on the court).  

The WC this year has NO predictable winners -- everyone one of the contenders (Lakers, Kings, TWolves, Spurs and Mavs -- yes, the Mavs) have shown vulnerability and chinks in their armor -- that is going to provide for some GREAT basketball.  And I would rather see great basketball than see the Lakers win -- although I will scream alot at the television and then call PJ the next day!   :lol:  

[Reality]

"do not strike fear" or as you changed it to "still thinking about them".

Huge difference.  Deny the difference if you wish but yes I've had them as title contenders all along with MN Kings SAS and even others.

That they recieved two HOFs at minimal cost and we have to question whether or not they will win the title is pretty pathetic.

 The Lakers are going to need all 4 HOF's to make a run at the title -- but I think the same could be said for most teams in the WC, at this point, because the West is so tough.

 

Problem is the other WC teams were not handed/given 2 HOFs at minimal cost.
You have previously posted how would SAS do without TD and Parker, MN without Garnett etc etc.

Ok fine lets look at the other angle.  Imagine MN SAS Kings Dal Hou were "given" two HOFs at minimal cost.  Oh and make it at the two postions they needed.  
Kings 48-7 at this point?
Ditto MN.
SAS due to Popavitchs offense he would find a way to try and stifle two HOFs but still 45-10?
Hou with Yao baby and co getting two HOFs?

Yet the Lakers "need" to have all 4 Flamers back to contend for a title.  I guess three isn't enough?


 

[westkoast]

Lurker what don't you do.

Quoting totally applicable rules, showing tech stuff in using de boardzes.
Has some ships and salsa on me and i sure want to make it down to the San Antonio town come playoff times.

Westkoast we are agreeing the Lakers pretty much suck right now.  Lets wait 12 more hours and see whats up after tonights Kings game.

We arent agreeing they suck.  I am agreeing their defense is not up to playoff form but the offense is running pretty well IMO.  Kobe is getting his points and dissing out the assists.  Shaq is doing his work in the paint.  Rush has really stepped up his offensive game and has confidence in his shot.  Walton is making nice passes and really has picked up the triangle quickly.

Slava and George are the only two guys who are not playing up to par on the offensive end.

How have you been comparing what the Spurs are doing to what the Lakers are doing when Kobe has missed 14 games and counting, Shaq has missed 15, and Karl Malone has missed 25 or so.  Please tell me if Duncan missed 15 games, Manu missed 14 games, and Parker missed 25 or so that the Spurs would have a record like the Lakers do now.

[Randy]

"do not strike fear" or as you changed it to "still thinking about them".

Huge difference.  Deny the difference if you wish but yes I've had them as title contenders all along with MN Kings SAS and even others.

That they recieved two HOFs at minimal cost and we have to question whether or not they will win the title is pretty pathetic.

The Lakers are going to need all 4 HOF's to make a run at the title -- but I think the same could be said for most teams in the WC, at this point, because the West is so tough.

 

Problem is the other WC teams were not handed/given 2 HOFs at minimal cost.
You have previously posted how would SAS do without TD and Parker, MN without Garnett etc etc.

Ok fine lets look at the other angle.  Imagine MN SAS Kings Dal Hou were "given" two HOFs at minimal cost.  Oh and make it at the two postions they needed.  
Kings 48-7 at this point?
Ditto MN.
SAS due to Popavitchs offense he would find a way to try and stifle two HOFs but still 45-10?
Hou with Yao baby and co getting two HOFs?

Yet the Lakers "need" to have all 4 Flamers back to contend for a title.  I guess three isn't enough?

I think it's funny that you have such a problem with the fact that LA got two HOF'ers but the fact that the Spurs got the gift of TD escapes your view.  The Spurs already had two HOF'ers (DRob and Elliott) when they got TD -- one year of injuries and one of the lowest chances for the ping pong ball with teams that actually needed ONE HOF'er -- but that's okay in your book, it's just not okay for other teams to get a "gift."

As for "gifts," wouldn't you call Turkoglu a gift as well?  

The Lakers did get a "gift" -- they got two great players -- who are at the end of their careers -- and it shows at times:  1) Malone has a serious injury for the first time in his career -- bad charma, huh? 2) GP isn't the defender he once was.  And, by-the-way, the Lakers got GP and Malone BECAUSE it was their weakness -- because they wanted a ring (and they still want to play and start) and they felt their best chance to do that was in LA.  They wanted to play with Shaq -- you can't blame that on the Lakers.  

The Kings didn't need Malone and/or GP -- as for the TWolves, they too got their "gifts" this year -- trading away next to nothing for Spree and Cassell and getting Kandi to replace the defensive stiff named Nesterovic.  

I think it's interesting that you only see the Lakers getting gifts when it seems that there have been a lot of gifts -- this year as well as in the past.

[Reality]

Randy you're avoiding the subject yet again.

MN SAS Kings certainly did not get Spree, Cassell, Turkey, Rashastiff, and Brad Miller for minimal.  Huge difference.  They were hardly gifts in the sense of Payton and MailCheap signing for a combined 5 mill, and furthermore signing very early on so the Lakeshow didn't have to do any deal deadline headaches.
So if you even want to attempt to make it close to even, have all those above sign for the minimal and sign very early on.
Plus Rashastiff hardly qualifies as HOFer, granted Malone is a geezer.

Now who else can those teams go out and get?

Nonethess your saying GP is no longer the defender he once was is indeed huge progress.  The light coming thru to you, whether large or small is fantastic.  

[WayOutWest]

Agreed Randy.  Of all the teams I think the Kings got the fewest gifts.  Brad Miller isn't a huge upgrade over Vlade but his youth keepts them competitive for years to come.  Spurs, Lakers & Mavs recieved gifts this season, and as you mentioned the Spurs should even have TD, the greatest gift of all, but Reality has been drinking some of his winning juice before it was pasturized and it's obviously rottening away his T-Rex brain.

The inadvertant whistle actually went against the Lakers because they were calling goal tending on Kobe, when it clearly was not, the refs just wouldn't admit they made as mistake.  The announcers kept saying over and over for the refs to admit they made a mistake on the goal tending call instead of pulling out the inadvertant whistle card.  The shot clock was down to less then 2 seconds and the Nuggets would have lost possesion anyway but that whistled screwed up Kobe's rebound.  The refs where letting Camby BLATENTLY push Kobe in the back and hang all over Shaq in the closing minutes and the Lakers still pulled it out.  I wasn't surprised by the game at all because the Nuggets have been doing that to everyone in the league.  They know running all game will wear other teams out in the thin air, their GM was on Lakers talk live and he basically said they can't compete in the half court set so they run on every possesion, made field goal or not.  It's been working and that's been more of an impact on their success than Carmelo.  I don't think Carmelo knows there's a letter in the alphabet after C and before E.  He only knows about the letter after N and before P.

[Reality]

 The shot clock was down to less then 2 seconds and the Nuggets would have lost possesion anyway but that whistled screwed up Kobe's rebound.

Westkoast can you get a tivo copy over to WOW?  And have him remove the bedsheet so he can see the screen.

Phil Jackson:  "That was an interesting finish. I have to conclude that even I was confused on that last whistle. We were lucky to get the jump ball and win the ballgame from there."

I only saw highlights.  I did't tape.  

What I saw from a distance and ESPN reports:
Millers shot hits the rim.  Thus the shot clock danger is over.  Melo gets the rebound.  Hence the Nugs possess with a new shot clock, ahead by two points, and only 27 seconds left.  Two seconds after Melo has secured the rebound the *inadvertant* whistle blows.  Jump ball, possesion Marketers.  
  Now granted the Flamers could have still won the game but this changed everything.  What Kobme rebound are you talking about?  What shot clock violation that "they (the Nuggets) were goin to lose the ball anyway"?

[Lurker]

To support reality's position on this one....from NBA.com:

With two seconds on the shot clock, Denver's Andre Miller put up a shot that clearly hit the underside of the rim. Rookie Carmelo Anthony appeared to grab the rebound, but a whistle blew indicating a shot-clock violation.

The referees ruled it an inadvertent whistle, and Lakers center Shaquille O'Neal won the ensuing jump ball with 27 seconds left.

Seems that even NBA.com has a story which seems to say the Lakers got the gift last night.  If the refs were calling an inadvertant whistle on the 30 second clock then they should have just given the ball back to the team that rebounded it.