Author Topic: Dan Rather to Bush:  (Read 5468 times)

Offline spursfan101

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« on: September 15, 2004, 04:12:35 PM »
Paul

Offline ziggy

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #1 on: September 15, 2004, 10:12:53 PM »
This was from the story

Dan Rather To Bush: ‘Answer The Questions’
by Joe Hagan


"With respect: answer the questions," said Dan Rather, the CBS News anchor. He was asking a direct question to President George W. Bush, his re-election campaign and his political allies in the press and on the Web. "We’ve heard what you have to say about the documents and what you’ve said and what your surrogates have said, but for the moment, answer the questions.

"I say that with respect," he added. "They’d be a lot stronger in their campaign if they did do that."

On Tuesday, Sept. 14, Mr. Rather remained steadfast despite a brutal onslaught of criticism from Bush defenders—including Laura Bush—critics and competing news organizations over the authenticity of memos reportedly typed by Lt. Col. Jerry Killian, Mr. Bush’s squadron commander in the early 1970’s, which suggested that Killian felt pressure from his superior to "sugarcoat" negative evaluations of the future President’s performance.

Since 60 Minutes reported on those documents on Wednesday, Sept. 8, their veracity has been assaulted by Web critics, politicians and document experts who put the burden of proof on Mr. Rather, his producers and on CBS News, and say that the reputation of the news organization is at stake.

Mr. Rather asserted that the lack of denial was itself evidence of the essential truth of his findings. The questions raised by his reporting, he said, have remained unanswered by the Bush administration: Did Mr. Bush get preferential treatment for the Texas Air National Guard? Was then-Lieutenant Bush suspended for failing to perform up to Texas and Air Guard standards? Did then-Lieutenant Bush refuse a direct order from his military superior to take a required examination?

"It’s never been fully, completely denied by the Bush-Cheney campaign or even the White House that he was suspended for meeting the standards of the Air Force or that he didn’t show up for a physical," he said. "The longer we go without a denial of such things—this story is true."

On Friday, Sept. 10, Mr. Rather said on the CBS Evening News that he believed that some of the criticism came from people who were "partisan political operatives," implying that right-wing elements have managed to turn the story into a referendum on the story itself—and thus on Mr. Rather, a longtime target of conservative critics.

Mr. Rather said that the focus on questions over the veracity of the memos was a smoke screen perpetrated by right-wing allies of the Bush administration.

"I think the public, even decent people who may be well-disposed toward President Bush, understand that powerful and extremely well-financed forces are concentrating on questions about the documents because they can’t deny the fundamental truth of the story," he said. "If you can’t deny the information, then attack and seek to destroy the credibility of the messenger, the bearer of the information. And in this case, it’s change the subject from the truth of the information to the truth of the documents.

"This is your basic fogging machine, which is set up to cloud the issue, to obscure the truth," he said.

Mr. Rather said that he and his longtime CBS producer, Mary Mapes, had investigated the story for nearly five years, finally convincing a source to give them the National Guard documents. He did not reveal the name of the source, but Mr. Rather said he was a man who had been reluctant to come forth with them because he’d been harassed by political operatives. "Whether one believes it or not, this person believed that he and his family had been harassed and even threatened," he said. "We were not able to confirm that, but his fear was that what had already been threats, intimidation, if he gave up the documents, could get worse—maybe a lot worse."


I have watched this entire thing play out, and I have tried to get enough info before I made a judgement.  The thing with this entire story is that so far almost nobody  believes the documents are legit.  I have watched CNN, MSNBC, Fox, the Sunday programs etc., and it is almost unanimus that the documents are not legit.  Nobody but CBS is willing to take a stand on their legitimacy, and even CBS won't respond to any specific questions about them.
Now I didn't buy into the Swifties charges, they just didn't convince me.  One thing about the Swifties is that the guys making the charges came out and made their charges to the public.  They were prepared to take their hits, and they attempted to justify their statements.  Most people didn't buy them, but you knew who they were.  This is totally different.  CBS has all of these unnamed sources, and all these disputed documents, and they just stonewall all of it.

I have a hard time trying to describe Rather's approach in the article.  He is defiant, paranoid, in denial, and making really inflammitory statements for someone of his stature and credibility.  When I read this I thought it was a bogus deal, someone poking fun at Rather, like The Onion does.  The NY Observer is a legit paper, so I assume it is true, but it is still hard to believe.

First he refuses to acknowledge the challenge to the legitimacy of the documents.  He trys and trys to throw everything into Bush's lap.  He says "With respect: answer the questions,".  "We’ve heard what you have to say about the documents and what you’ve said and what your surrogates have said, but for the moment, answer the questions." There is almost no one who believes the documents are legit, but Rather is demanding Bush to answer the questions raised by the documents.

Then he says "It’s never been fully, completely denied by the Bush-Cheney campaign or even the White House that he was suspended for meeting the standards of the Air Force or that he didn’t show up for a physical," he said. "The longer we go without a denial of such things—this story is true."

By that logic someone could make up a document supposedly signed by John Kerry that says he was the real Boston Strangler, and if Kerry didn't deny it then that proves he is the Boston Strangler.   :crazy:  

I wonder if Rather really understands how what he is saying applies equally to himself.  There are all sorts of people who are challenging his story and evidence, and if you refuse to provide anything to support your position then I guess "The longer we go without a denial of such things—this story is true."  So by that logic I guess that means Rather's story must be considered totally bogus.

Then he goes off on a conspiracy rant.  :crazy:

 "I think the public, even decent people who may be well-disposed toward President Bush, understand that powerful and extremely well-financed forces are concentrating on questions about the documents because they can’t deny the fundamental truth of the story," he said. "If you can’t deny the information, then attack and seek to destroy the credibility of the messenger, the bearer of the information. And in this case, it’s change the subject from the truth of the information to the truth of the documents.

"This is your basic fogging machine, which is set up to cloud the issue, to obscure the truth," he said.


"If you can't deny the information"????.  The reality is all sorts of people are doing nothing but denying the veracity of the evidence.  Bush cannot prove that Killien didn't write a memo making the statements, the ol you can't prove a negative, but he can make a very credible case that this memo is bogus and just about everybody is.  To turn this into some sort of "Right Wing Conspiriacy" with a bunch of rants is really pathetic.

The part that is really shocking to me is this.
Mr. Rather said he was a man who had been reluctant to come forth with them because he’d been harassed by political operatives. "Whether one believes it or not, this person believed that he and his family had been harassed and even threatened," he said. "We were not able to confirm that, but his fear was that what had already been threats, intimidation, if he gave up the documents, could get worse—maybe a lot worse."

He is making statements that Bush's "operatives" were making threats, and intimidating the source, and that it could get a lot worse if this person came forward.  He makes these statements, and then he says they weren't able to confirm the threats etc.  That to me is so far from what would be "high journalistic standards", making all sorts of statements about things you can't confirm.   :crazy:

Based upon this and everything I have seen so far, I have to believe that Rather's career is imploding almost overnight.
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

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Guest_Dromedarius

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #2 on: September 15, 2004, 10:35:00 PM »
Can't say this surprises me. Besides, President Bush isn't running on his war record. He's not claiming to be a war hero, like Kerry. Clinton ran to England and it didn't seem to be a problem, so why does it matter that Bush went to the Guards and eventually escaped duty because of politics and money. If anything, I'd love to see CBS do an in depth story on Kerry's activities upon his return to the States. I could care less if he earned his medals or not. The fact that he got out of service early, just like Bush, to run for office, just like Bush, doesn't matter to me, although it DOES seem to escape the attention of the Kerry "supporters" (read "Bush-haters").

I want to know why Kerry was in Paris talking to the enemy.

I want to know what war atrocities HE committed.

I want to know why he threw his medals/ribbons over the White House fence, only to later admit they weren't his, only to later claim how proud he is of his service.

I want to know why he won't release the form that will let everyone see ALL of his documents.

I want to know why he accused the President of being behind the Swift vet adds, only to jump on the bandwagon of this obviously ridiculous story by CBS.

Also, from Dan Rather:

I want to know why the Abu Ghraib story was broken by 60 Minutes, AFTER the military had already started to deal with it, only to dominate the headlines for six weeks, or however long it lasted, and completely overshadowing things like the BEHEADING of Americans.

I want to know why CBS was so anxious to declare Gore the winner in 2000 when it was OBVIOUS the race to close to call, especially Florida, when the polls were HOURS from closing.

I want to know why CBS rushed to report this story (as opposed to doing a story on Kerry) when they were warned OVER and OVER by those knowing the facts of the story and experts whom had been consulted NOT to run the story.

I want to know why CBS led almost EVERY evening news broadcast for months off with "X number of US troops killed today," on days when there were obviously bigger stories.

I want to know why they haven't addressed their obviously shady reporting.

I want to know why they are always on the wrong end of these obviously politically charged stories, and in EVERY instance the party standing to benefit by these "errors" was the Democratic party.

Offline spursfan101

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2004, 08:20:19 AM »
I want to know if Bush snorted cocaine at Camp David as someone in his family alleges.

I want to know the overtime rules were changed.

I want to know why we went into a war without a solid exit strategy.

I want to know why we let our government imprison people for life with allowing them access to legal council. And why we don't allow visitors to monitor what there doing.

I want to know why we have quarantined free speech zones whenever Bush visits a local city.

I want to know why we have to sign a pledge of support to George Bush to see him in person.

There are alot of things I want to know too...
Paul

Offline spursfan101

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2004, 08:29:26 AM »
Here are some other reasons:

I want to know why under Bush Jr. there are now 43 million Americans with no health insurance

I want to know why there are now 9 million people out of work in America-3.3 million more than when Bush took office.

I want to know why he failed to fulfill his pledge to get Osama Bin Laden "dead or alive".

I want to know why he made a PR trip to Baghdad where he staged a
Thanksgiving meal at 6am with troops that were screened based on thier political
affiliation. And the Turkey? It was a prop.

And about his refusal to fire-or even repremand-Lt. General Jerry "our God is bigger than their God" Boykin. Perhaps it's because Boykin said of the president,
"George Bush was not elected by a majority of voters in the United States. He
was appointed by God. He's in the white house because God put him there."

I want to know why he still has yet to attend any soldiers' funerals.

 
Paul

Offline Derek Bodner

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2004, 08:47:28 AM »
Quote
The fact that he got out of service early, just like Bush, to run for office, just like Bush, doesn't matter to me, although it DOES seem to escape the attention of the Kerry "supporters"

Automatic discharge after 3 purple hearts already had him relegated to desk duty.

Guest_Dromedarius

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2004, 12:00:36 PM »
Quote
I want to know if Bush snorted cocaine at Camp David as someone in his family alleges.

You obviously don't follow the news too closely because the person who "reportedly" said this has been all over saying she didn't say it. The "writer" made it up. She asked the ex-Mrs. Bush, "Did you know W snorted coke at Camp David," and she said "No, I didn't." Then the writer attributed the remark to her in the book. Good reporting.  :crazy:  Of course, you latched right on to it...

 :D  

Guest_Dromedarius

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #7 on: September 16, 2004, 12:13:55 PM »
Quote
I want to know the overtime rules were changed.

Is this REALLY a major issue for you? If it is, maybe you should watch the news. It was knocked down by Congress. Do you get your news from "The Daily Show"?

Quote
I want to know why we went into a war without a solid exit strategy.

Is there such a thing? How can you predict years in the future?

Quote
I want to know why we let our government imprison people for life with allowing them access to legal council. And why we don't allow visitors to monitor what there doing.

They aren't imprisoned for life. Again, if you watched the news, you'd know they started having trials for these guys.

Quote
I want to know why we have quarantined free speech zones whenever Bush visits a local city.

Where are you getting your "stuff"? Another "The Daily Show" reference here?

Quote
I want to know why we have to sign a pledge of support to George Bush to see him in person.

I saw him. Never signed a pledge. Again, where are you getting your "info"?

Furthermore, how much does any of this matter? Who cares how easy or not it is to see the President? I'm glad you can't just walk up to his house and knock on the door. You'd probably like to see him assassinated, which is why you seem to be so pissed he has security. I, for one, am glad we protect our Presidents, even if they are lame ones, like Carter, or Kerry (if he gets elected). Do you have any real issues? (Again, I'm not referring to reports from "The Daily Show" or "Air America"...)

Guest_Dromedarius

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #8 on: September 16, 2004, 12:22:10 PM »
Quote
Automatic discharge after 3 purple hearts already had him relegated to desk duty.

I'm only aware of two purple hearts, one of which was reportedly patched up with a bandaid. Besides, the guy was only over there for something like three months. What was he, a bullet sponge? Why won't he release his records? I'll tell you why. I remember when I was in high school (a long time ago) a vet came in and told us what it was like in Vietnam. He told us purple hearts lost their value in Vietnam because guys were getting them for stepping on broken beer bottles when drunk. This would completely be in line with the report War Hero Kerry got one when they had to put a band aid on his arm.

 :puke:  

jn

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2004, 01:05:40 PM »

jn

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #10 on: September 16, 2004, 01:10:03 PM »

Offline spursfan101

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #11 on: September 16, 2004, 02:56:22 PM »
The unjustified Iraq War is the only issue that I need.
Paul

Offline westkoast

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #12 on: September 16, 2004, 03:01:28 PM »
Kerry will be a lame president, even tho you are basing this on assumptions because he has not taken office........but Bush is someone who deserves to be re-elected and was not a lame president?  Are you a supporter of fuzzy logic?

Btw, the whole overtime thing is not over yet.  You will watch it resurface.  Now that some of these companies got a taste of what could happen if alot of their workers were unable to recieve OT they are going to push for it.  The seed is already planted.
« Last Edit: September 16, 2004, 03:06:19 PM by westkoast »
http://I-Really-Shouldn't-Put-A-Link-To-A-Blog-I-Dont-Even-Update.com

Offline spursfan101

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #13 on: September 16, 2004, 03:19:11 PM »
One thing I admire about Bush is that he's set in his convictions, and he won't waver. That is a great quality, but you can't apply that to every situation. Sometimes, you need to reevaulate situations and acknowledge when you have made mistakes. Bush dosen't do that which is very troubling.  
Paul

Offline ziggy

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Dan Rather to Bush:
« Reply #14 on: September 16, 2004, 03:44:31 PM »
Quote
One thing I admire about Bush is that he's set in his convictions, and he won't waver. That is a great quality, but you can't apply that to every situation. Sometimes, you need to reevaulate situations and acknowledge when you have made mistakes. Bush dosen't do that which is very troubling.
It is taking all my self control not to make a "flip-flop" joke here, but I just won't do it. :rofl:  
A third-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the majority. A second-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking with the minority. A first-rate mind is only happy when it is thinking.

A quotation is a handy thing to have about, saving one the trouble of thinking for oneself.

AA Mil