Author Topic: Taxation  (Read 2778 times)

Offline Reality

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Taxation
« on: September 28, 2005, 11:05:36 AM »
Boston Tea Party.  Taxation without representation.

Anyone else think the US of A has long since passed the oppressive taxation levels imposed by the British?

You earn a buck.  Immediately that buck is worth 75 cents or so, depending on if you're a W-4 or self emp.  You go buy gas.  Chop off a bunch of that purchase to more tax.  Get some breakfast at a restraunt.  More tax.  Or fix your own.  Your state may have food tax.

In your house or apt.  Yearly property tax, which even if you are renting part of your rent is gonna help pay your landlords property tax bill.  

Call someone up on the phone.  Your phone bill has a bunch of taxes.  Pay your heat bill this winter.  If you're Texan nevermind.  More tax.

Buy a car, new or used or simply update the license plate tags on your current rig.  Don't ask what California jams us for, you're also getting jammed in your state.  And you no doubt see the results of your DMV tax dollars in the pothole free modern roads, right?

RTreat, jomal or anyone have the latest statistics on what they buying power of an earned buck becoming a spent buck after all taxes included?

I know it was 37 cents.  I'm gonna say we're declining to 30.

Offline SPURSX3

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« Reply #1 on: September 28, 2005, 11:33:07 AM »
Reality, the tax amount is relative considering what people earn today. I am not saying that i like taxes or believe that they are all fair, but the truth is you HAVE representation, use it.  The truth is our representation is bought off but bigger dollars than we tax payers have, so althought they need us to vote them into office, they still get huge donations and favors from larger interests that they become indebted to.  

Here in SA they are trying to make toll roads out of roads that are ALREADY built and paid for by our taxes, that would be a double tax, needless to say the people in our city are trying to fight it.  Hell get rid of the gas tax if they are tying to save people money at the pump.  K bailey Hutchinson is tryign to get Texas to be able to claim all sales taxes toward our IRS return permanently.  We got to claim our sales tax receipts this past year, and so far this year too, which got us a little more money back on our returns.  you need to voice your complaint to your voted officials reality first and foremost.  If you are not going to take the time to do so, then why complain?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2005, 11:34:54 AM by SPURSX3 »
On the set of Walker Texas Ranger Chuck Norris brought a dying lamb back to life by nuzzling it with his beard. As the onlookers gathered, the lamb sprang to life. Chuck Norris then roundhouse kicked it, killing it instantly. The lesson? The good Chuck giveth, and the good Chuck, he taketh away.

Offline Reality

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Taxation
« Reply #2 on: September 28, 2005, 01:31:47 PM »
Quote
Reality,.....but the truth is you HAVE representation, use it.  The truth is our representation is bought off but bigger dollars than we tax payers have, so althought they need us to vote them into office, they still get huge donations and favors from larger interests that they become indebted to.  

 If you are not going to take the time to do so, then why complain?
1.  So we do have rep but that rep is bought off by the larger interests?  Then do we really have any rep?  Perhaps a tinsy amount.

I've taken the time on many occasions to write gov't officials.  Sometimes with success, most of the time with absolutely none.  My most recent very minor one was the California PUC *Public* Utilities Commision.  My cell phone does not work in my house.  The companies (Verison) lame attempt to continue bilking me payments scheme was explained as "we cannot control what a persons house is made of, therefore we cannot guarantee service."  I countered that why is it that friends who visit with Cingular and T-Mobile service get 6 (six!) bars of power.  Yet i get one bar and that one wimps on and off.  Obviously Cingular and TMobile have either a. more towers or b GSL service, which completely kicks compared to Verisons ancient analog/digital cell towers.

Spineless PUC lady lies thru her teeth and said she is siding with Verison because I never complained earlier.  Wrong answer lady.  Had a consumer group intervene on my behalf one year ago.  It's all documented, numerous contacts including Verisons non and wimpy responses.  So lets see what my "representative" at the PUC will do now.  Now fwd'd to appeal.  

My thead point was to find out if the board felt we are taxed without representation.  Ie $800 hammers and FEMA sending loaded semi trucks of ice down to the Gulf to have them park for a week, send them back to Boston to unload the ice back into a storage unit never to have been used.

I'm not complaining as I feel i do know the solution, that being that current gov'ts will be forcibly removed and a gov't will be ushered in that will not be man rule.

jn

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Taxation
« Reply #3 on: September 28, 2005, 01:42:11 PM »
"current gov'ts will be forcibly removed and a gov't will be ushered in that will not be man rule."

Help me out here.  Are you talking about a violent revolution leading to an ape lead plutocrocay?  Using the vote to bring in a lesbian oligarchy? What? Maybe if you figure out a way to make a supercomputer our president for life we would have a leader who understands your technology problems.    

Offline Reality

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« Reply #4 on: September 28, 2005, 02:04:19 PM »
Quote
"current gov'ts will be forcibly removed and a gov't will be ushered in that will not be man rule."

Help me out here.  Are you talking about a violent revolution leading to an ape lead plutocrocay?  Using the vote to bring in a lesbian oligarchy? What? Maybe if you figure out a way to make a supercomputer our president for life we would have a leader who understands your technology problems.
 :rofl:

No I'm talking about Divine Intervention.

rickortreat

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Taxation
« Reply #5 on: September 28, 2005, 04:45:53 PM »
Divine intervention!?  Why here and now, and not with Hitler or Stalin in WW2.

Free will governs the world, our representatives do not look out for us, although they should.

The reality is they are crooks, and nearly everything they do favors the wealthy and powerful over the rest of us.  It sucks, but it is understandable.  Greed and power go together,  those with political power work for those who pay them the most.

The only way to combat it is to catch them in the act, and try them in court for violation of their responsibilities.

The constitution has been made into a joke by these men, who have written laws in violation of it.  This is treason on it's face, but no member of Congress has ever been tried for it.

The system of checks and balances doesn't work, because it requires honest men.  As long as men get elected by spending lots of money, and then use their power to foavor the people who finance their campaigns this is what your going to get.

The Patriot Acts are in violation of the consititution.  The federal reserve act of 1913 is illegal as it awards the right to create money- something Congress never had the right to do!

It happens because most people don't even understand enough to see whats happening and demand better leaders.  They've reelected Bush who's the worst president ever, and it was apparent to me before he was elected for the first time.

I think we deserve this crap collectively, because we vote these creeps in.  If things continue to get worse, I'm leaving.  America left me a long time ago, in viloation of the social contract that made it special to be here.  

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #6 on: September 28, 2005, 06:49:27 PM »
American people need to do a better job of educating fellow Americans on whats REALLY going on.  Not only are alot of these guys doing whats best for the smalest portion of America they are able to control the masses using the media.  You would be suprised how many people watch one news show and only one news show and base all their views around what they heard.

We as people need to look at ourselves.  Why are people so torn on issues such as who is for or against abortion?  Now before some of you jump down my throat....is the fact that Bush is against abortion have any direct effect on the state of our country?  I understand the belief system and I respect any christian who is against abortion (although I dont agree).....but these things should not be issues that people are deciding on who they vote for.  I heard people say online and in the office that they are voting for Bush because hes a good christian man  :bash:  :bash:  :bash:  Forget about church and state having to be seperate.  How the hell does Bush's religious choices make America better for the average person?  It doesnt!!!!!
« Last Edit: September 28, 2005, 10:07:28 PM by westkoast »
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rickortreat

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« Reply #7 on: September 28, 2005, 08:10:05 PM »
EXACTLY RIGHT, westkoast.  It is manipulation, an attempt to divide people artificially and to build a base of the gulliable to maintain political control.  

Unfortunately, how do you inform a Christian that he's being duped by a man who poses as a Christian, but is in fact an evil, hypocrite, without them thinking ill of you, calling you a liberal or a radical or a traitor?

If a man is intelligent, rational and knowledgeable of history, he is not easily missled by such men.  But men like this are few and far between.  The world is filed with sincere, gulliable people.

Try convincing an Iranian that the mullahs in power are evil men.  If you could go back in time to Germany when Hitler rose to power, could you convince the brownshirts that he would eventually destroy Germany?  Try convincing the average Chinaman that his government is exploiting him and is deliberatly restricting his freedoms in order to maintain power.

People want to believe in their leaders, once they do, it is very hard to break that trust.  I'd like to talk to some of the former followers of Jim Baker to see what they think of televangelists in general, or how they feel about being duped out of their money, beliving it was going to do God's (sic) work?

 :eek2:

Try as you wil to educate them, it is probably easier to teach a pig to dance.

These leaders are so skilled at lying that it stretches the imagination.

Take a look at this attempt at obfuscation when it comes to our economy:

http://tinyurl.com/cpvse

Guest_Randy

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Taxation
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2005, 08:22:26 AM »
Umm, who said that all Christians support Bush?  There is a TON of things that I disagree with Bush about -- and while I voted for Bush, it was more of a vote AGAINST Kerry (who is not only an idiot but doesn't even have a clue WHAT he stands for).  

As for the abortion area, sorry I believe that life begins with conception.  The fact is that our legal system is hypocritical in this area.  If a woman wants to have a child at 7 months and is struck by a car, then the legal system punishes the offender (who was drunk and should be punished) with 2 counts of vehicular manslaughter -- however, legally, that woman could have had an abortion the next day.  If it's life, then it isn't a woman's choice -- it's killing a life.  If it's just "tissue" then why are these people being prosecuted for vehicular manslaughter for simply a "tissue?"

Another area where groups are hypocritical -- what's the new commercial for drugs?  "Know where your kids are -- ALL the time!"  However, this doesn't apply to your 15 year old daughter when she wants an abortion without parental knowledge.  The idea that someone's kid should be able to get an abortion without the parents consent is ludicrous.  

I respect those who disagree with me in the area of abortion althought I definately strongly disagree.  

As for how a person's faith can make him a better person -- I think it goes to character and integrity.  Am I saying that all those who declare themselves "christian" live with character and integrity -- absolutely not.  In fact, IMO, Bush has exhibited very little character and integrity.  I'd say this does more to disagree with his faith than exhibit it, IMO.  I'd LOVE to see a person that is electible who exhibits character and integrity -- but it's been awhile since I've seen that in politics.

Offline westkoast

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« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2005, 10:29:53 AM »
Quote
Umm, who said that all Christians support Bush?  There is a TON of things that I disagree with Bush about -- and while I voted for Bush, it was more of a vote AGAINST Kerry (who is not only an idiot but doesn't even have a clue WHAT he stands for). 

 
Certainly not me.  I didnt use the words 'all' or 'every' when speaking about  Christians.  However, there is a huge amount of people who do support Bush because hes Christian.  Mainly the bible belt of the southern united states.  You know the same area who had a problem with Gore running with a 'jew'

Randy your views on abortion are your own and you are entitled to that.  My point wasnt to take a shot at people who feel abortion is wrong.  Like I said, I can respect anyone who feels its wrong but thats not how I personally feel.  My point was that this is not an important issue to base why you will or wont vote for a canidate because it does not directly effect the well being of this nation as a whole.  Bush being against abortion will not improve the economy, will not keep us on good terms with foreign countries we need to interact with, and it surely does not have an effect on his ability to get things done in washington, dc.  Yet the abortion thing was a MAJOR issue.  Often overshadowing much much more important issues like how education in this country seems to be suffering.  Now that doesnt mean I am saying that you shouldnt feel a certain way about abortion.  What I am saying is that its not an issue that should be used to make a decision on if a canidate is worth voting for or not.  I dont know about you personally Randy but I do know that others said they wouldnt vote for Kerry because of his views on abortion.  Instead of saying I dont think Kerry has the personality to be able to rally his fellow politicans to get things done.

Randy I agree about what you were saying in the last paragraph.  Thats part of my problem with Bush.  He runs on the Christian card but does seem like a true Christian to me.  Im not a Christian but it sickens me to see someone use religion as a gimmick to pull in votes.  Very disrespectful and very pathetic IMO.  Yet people seemed to fall for it.  Just because you say you are Christian does not automatically make you a better person.  You actually have to prove you are a good person by being a good person  :D    
« Last Edit: September 29, 2005, 10:55:56 AM by westkoast »
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rickortreat

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« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2005, 11:37:06 AM »
Randy, the issue is not whether you believe abortion is right or wrong.  The issue is whether the state has the right to interfere with what anyone does with their body.

I'll admit that it's a very sticky issue when it comes to abortion, since it has an impact on the life of another- the unborn child.  But there are two mitigating factors which justify it being the choice of the potential mother, and no one else.  First off the fetus is entirely dependent on the mother, not only in the womb, but for several years after it is born, it needs continual care and feeding.  That is a huge responsibility and a life-changeing event with far-reaching consequnces.  Which brings us to the second point: does Society have the right to make that choice for any woman since she had sex.  What your really saying is that if a woman conceives, she's already made the choice to have the child and raise it or bring it to term and then allow it to be adopted.

Because the woman is so integrally involved in the birth of the other party, if you impose any rules on her, she in effect becomes property of the state.  Somehow her beliefs and views, her choices and free will no longer matter, just becasue she became pregnant!

So the issue isn't about abortion, it's about private property rights and personal freedoms. Whether a woman choice somehow becomes subservient to the society when and if she conceives.

My own perspective is that choice and free will are god-given rights, and that no man or group or people has the right to impose their will on anyone else!  I live the way I want to live, and you live the way you want to live and we respect each others right to make these choices, reguarldless of what we think about the quality of those choices.  That's pretty much the way the constitution reads, which is why Roe V. Wade was ruled on as it was.

In other words, it's between me and God.  Not between me and your beliefs and God.

So it's not up to any politician and what he or she thinks, or even what the majority thinks.  It's what the Constitution says.  If you or anyone else doesn't like the implications of such freedoms, you should go somewhere else.

There are a lot of things wrong with this country, and a womans right to have an abortion isn't on my list.  The fact that it keeps getting brought up again and again, and that so many people have invested so much time in it, interferes with our collective ability to address these other, more pressing issues.

Bush started a war illegally, and lied to the American people about the reasons for the war, resulting in the deaths of thousands of Americans.  Isn't that a more important issue for us to deal with, how American power is used overseas?

What about our trade and budget defecits?  Isn't your economic well-being and freedom more important, or is it ok for our society's standard of living to decline because our government permits free trade with countries that prevent free market rates for their currencies.  Or is it ok, that even though we're fighting a war with terrorists, Bush allows thousands of illegal immigrants to enter the country from Mexico, increasing competition for local jobs?  

 :huh:

The agenda needs to be focused on what America's policies are that is causing our decline in living standards and freedoms.  Not what a woman does once she conceives.  :bash:  

Offline JoMal

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« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2005, 11:44:21 AM »
Personally, I hate getting into the middle of a religious or abortion arguement, because passions tend to run high and you go into the discussion knowing there is not going to be any give on either side. People make up their minds one way or the other long before they hear the alternative side.

So I will speak of a side issue. I believe most religions honor the family unit and the reproduction process associated with this traditional and recognizable joining of a man and a woman in some sort of legal and spiritual ceremony from which offspring are not only expected, but intended. None of these religions make any suggestion that restraint in the reproduction process in the contemporary state of affairs the world population faces is an important issue to address.

Since the sexual needs of humanity are as strong as just about any other bodily function you can think of, including eating and bowel movements, there just is no way to combat the resultant children in every circumstance where reproduction activities are involved. The billions of current citizens of this planet attest to this. As the planet's natural resources quickly dwindle, the children we have now face a future where combustionable engines will be museum pieces within their lifetimes.

My point is, we can complain about looting the planet's resources, of mortgaging out children's future, as more and more children are brought into the Earth's realm, as the religions mankind has created all claim a God that demands His people to propagate without hesitatation and without impediments, like abortion or any other means, to slow the burgeoning planet's load. At one time, when plague and other diseases destroyed populations and major wars gutted generations of citizens in certain areas, there was a need for this philosophy.

But now, deaths from disease has been slowed, wars still kill, but not in the percentages of total populations they once did, and the planet continues to absorb huge increases in people.

This is what we can expect. At some point, perhaps in our lifetimes, perhaps with our children, a huge correction will take place. People will shout, "Why God, why have you forsaken us?", and drop to their knees and pray for deliverance from whatever natural or unnatural disaster wipes out a few billion people at that time.

And God will not answer them, but in His silence, the implication will be plain. "Because this is what I do when Earth itself is threatened".

Regardless of what man does to the planet, it will survive, with or without humanity. That will be left to our own devices and so far, that really has not been all that successful. In our future, I can imagine that the "adjustment" needed is just going to be much more dramatic.  
"We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.....We will not be driven by fear into an age of unreason.....We are not descended from fearful men, not from men who feared to write, to speak, to associate and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular....We cannot defend freedom abroad by deserting it at home."

rickortreat

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« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2005, 11:52:34 AM »
Very smart Jomal.

Self-regulation is important and essential for both individuals and societies.  If you don't regulate yourself correctly, you are in danger of being regualted by natural sources.

It is much better to control yourself than to have controls impossed from the outside.

Very very wise.